DAR -- druids against reincarnation

[Fitz10019]

I've encountered more than one DM who thinks that Druids frown upon using Reincarnate, citing the circle-of-life. This baffles me, considering it's a Druid-only spell. Does anyone know the source of this anti-Reincarnate stance? Also, what's your opinion on whether druids should be willing to cast this spell?

[Fhaolan]

That's new. I can see the thought process that led to it, but I've not heard that one before.

The Reincarnate spell doesn't really make 100% sense when viewed from a RL theological standpoint. If you take RL reincarnation beliefs into game, what it should do is either move the spirit/soul so that it will be born naturally as soon as possible, or track the soul to point to whoever the spirit/soul is born into. Creating a new adult body is more like Time Lord regeneration from Doctor Who than any religious form of reincarnation.

[mjames]

Well, personally, I think it would depend on the individual druid. I mean a LN Druid may not use the spell, but a EN druid might do it to further his agenda.

Some DMs just have personal bias against certain spells/classes/races because of something that happened in their gaming past (ussually something that led to them DMing instead of playing). I know tons of DMs who hate Psionics because they had players bend the rules and break the games, when Psionics is not as bad as a Batman mage anyway.

[Snake-Aes]

Some DMs just have personal bias against certain spells/classes/races

There. There's no canonical reason for druids to dislike the reincarnate spell.

[MickJay]

Other than it goes a bit against Nature, of course

[Milskidasith]

Other than it goes a bit against Nature, of course

It's a druid only spell. It doesn't really go against nature in that case, because it wouldn't be a druid spell otherwise.*

*This assumes WotC is competent.

[Snake-Aes]

Do you want to give it druid-friendly fluff? Druids believe all souls have the right to reincarnate. Like an optional step in the cycle of life. The spell hastens the process. Just like Raise Dead, Resurrection and True Resurrection aren't guaranteed to raise the target, neither is Reincarnation.

[arguskos]

*This assumes WotC is competent.

Why would you EVER assume that? WotC's competence track record is about as far as is humanly possible from good.

On topic, eh. I can actually see the logic. It's a toss-up, IMO. Some Druids may well decry use of the spell as violating the balance of the natural cycle. Others may take the stance of "we have it, and nature can include such massive restorations in short spans of time, so it's ok in small amounts". Still others might spam it wily-nily. Up to the druid in question really.

[Ravens_cry]

Unlike any other resurrection spell though, it can be abused for a kind immortality.
Not that that's a huge issue, immortality isn't that big a deal game mechanics wise.

[taltamir]

druid spells, by definition, come from "nature" (nature being a preternatural pseudo sentient "force"... ironically)...
reincarnation is a spell only druids have.
therefore, reincarnation is a spell created and granted by nature itself.

it is as "natural" as dryads... that is, completely unnatural IRL, but the very essence of "nature" in DnD.
If anything, druids will oppose resurrection and demand reincarnation instead... but the whole thing is really stupid to begin with, the spell, its interactions, the entire druid class... its just WOTC being incompetent.

Basically I think a DM who does that is using it as a flimsy excuse for a stealth nerf... the DM wants to ban it as a broken spell, but doesn't have the guts to just go ahead and say so... so he makes up some flimsy in game pseudo excuse to stealth ban it.

[ShadowsGrnEyes]

my assumption. . . because it makes for some reallly akward relationships when they try to reincarnate loved ones. . . .

Druid: Hi, nice to meet you. The male half orc there is my wife. The dog and the kobold are my twin sons. . . (i always make the "other" category a random animal roll. . . had one guy end up as a house cat, another scored polar bear)

as a GM. . . personally i think reincarnation is hilarious and awsome

[23minds]

Well, there's the Ashbound sect of druidism (from Eberron) that are against all spells that return a dead person to life again (and a lot of other things: they're considered too extreme by basically ALL other druidic sects). They're really hardcore about their beliefs though.

It's safe to say that any druid in a party of adventurers is probably not the most hard line druid out there.

Besides, this is exactly the reason the druids have reincarnate instead of raise dead. They don't control what body you return to: they only know what body you would eventually move on to if you were reborn to the material realm and they can get you there faster.

[Fitz10019]

OP here, thanks for the replies. As both of these DMs cited the exact same reason, and have no connection whatsoever, I thought their was a specific source. I guess now that taltamir has it right, calling it a stealth nerf.

[awa]

now its not necessarily a stealth nerf he may have just not considered the fact that it is a druid only spell and so on

[WarKitty]

As a devoted druid player, I sort of developed my own code for the use of the reincarnate spell. "Reincarnate" should be used only in cases of unnatural death...defined as "death caused directly or indirectly by the darker forces of civilization." Which basically means as long as you didn't get mauled to death by a bear you're fine for reincarnate.

[Grumman]

Other than it goes a bit against Nature, of course

So does turning into a bear and eating people.

[Coidzor]

I've encountered more than one DM who thinks that Druids frown upon using Reincarnate, citing the circle-of-life. This baffles me, considering it's a Druid-only spell. Does anyone know the source of this anti-Reincarnate stance? Also, what's your opinion on whether druids should be willing to cast this spell?

Insane Troll Logic. That is all.

[Leon]

It's a druid only spell.

Up until the advent of the Archivist at least...

[hewhosaysfish]

my assumption. . . because it makes for some reallly akward relationships when they try to reincarnate loved ones. . . .

Druid: Hi, nice to meet you. The male half orc there is my wife. The dog and the kobold are my twin sons. . . (i always make the "other" category a random animal roll. . . had one guy end up as a house cat, another scored polar bear)

as a GM. . . personally i think reincarnation is hilarious and awsome

I've sometimes thought that something like this could be a good backstory for a heavily-templated half-breed character (or a Mongrelfolk).

"Well, my grand-parents were all human up until their village was decimated by a freak <<insert catastrophe here>>. Some friendly druids showed up and reincarnated those that had died. And that's why I'm a half-troll, half-minotaur half-elf half-gnoll."

[Eldan]

Well, going by the circle of life argument...

There don't seem to be many references in D&D to reincarnation outside of the druid spell. I know a few Planescape factions have such believes, but even they aren't too sure.

Naturally, all souls seem to go to the afterlife, then merge with the plane after petitionership.

[taltamir]

So does turning into a bear and eating people.

Epic win! have a cookie.

In regards to just how unnatural druids are... druids can convert any spell to a summon that brings forth an animal to fight and die on their behalf... what the hell kind of protector of nature is that? druids should heal animals and keep them OUT of combat.
A cleric of a goddess of nature is a far more "druidic" druid than any druid.