Spellbooks as loot

[Harris the Ford]

In my campaign I have a wizard and I was wondering how often stumbling across a new spellbook is "about right" and balanced. he's a gnome illusionist (go figure) who has banned necro and abjuration. Also, is there a handy table or program anywhere where I can roll up spells in the book? Thanks all in advance.

[Snake-Aes]

Anywhere a wizard is likely to have been, like abandoned towers and animals' entrails. Or even in the middle of the road if the third level wizard was dumb enough to drop his book while rifling his backpack for the bedroll.

[FelixG]

Deep in the Unicorns rumpsack you find.... :P

[AvatarZero]

Deep in the Unicorns rumpsack you find.... :P

...a...broken link?

[FelixG]

Hopefully that fixed it

[nedz]

Just create an NPC wizard, work out their spell selection, ..., done.

[Boci]

What level is the PC?

[Kylarra]

Just remember that spells have a value too, so that should accounted for as part of the loot drops placed.

[Hague]

How do you determine the value of a spell such as that?

[Boci]

How do you determine the value of a spell such as that?

100gp per spell level I think. So for lower level spells a ascroll would be cheaper.

[Critical]

100gp per spell level I think. So for lower level spells a ascroll would be cheaper.

Remember, that it has every single cantrip in there... Oh boy.

[Greenish]

100gp per spell level I think. So for lower level spells a ascroll would be cheaper.

I would value them as appropriate scrolls, for determining their value as loot.

[Boci]

Remember, that it has every single cantrip in there... Oh boy.

He'd already have them though as a wizard.

[Critical]

He'd already have them though as a wizard.

Yeah, but it's still sellable.

[Bogardan_Mage]

Yeah, but it's still sellable.

To whom? I don't think they're technically scrolls, so they'd only really be useful to another Wizard... who as was mentioned already have all cantrips.

[Criptfeind]

They still follow the regular formula for finding out cost. So ∞x(100x0)=0

[Kylarra]

0th level scrolls are 12.5 gp.

0-Level Spells

When multiplying spell levels to determine value, 0-level spells should be treated as ½ level.

[Lord Vukodlak]

At its core a spellbook is worth 100gp per page of spells at market price. So as treasure you should simply value them at that. How much the party can sell it for. The wizard being able to learn a few is a bonus.

I would value them as appropriate scrolls, for determining their value as loot.

Why? you can't rip a page from a spell book and consume it like a scroll. It can only be used in preparing spells. A scroll of fireball is much more valuable then in spellbook form.

Remember, that it has every single cantrip in there... Oh boy.

Considering every wizard already has all those cantrips in their book. You can probably ignore their value

[Greenish]

Why? you can't rip a page from a spell book and consume it like a scroll. It can only be used in preparing spells. A scroll of fireball is much more valuable then in spellbook form.

Ah yes, but a page of a spellbook has potentially more uses. A scroll is used once and goes *poof*, but a with a spellbook, the party wizard can learn the spells from and sell it forwards.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Ah yes, but a page of a spellbook has potentially more uses. A scroll is used once and goes *poof*, but a with a spellbook, the party wizard can learn the spells from and sell it forwards.

Unless he already has that spell in his book in which case its value is far less. In addition the wizard has to either pay to scribe the spell into his own book. So once again the spell book page(s) is much less valuable.

[Greenish]

Unless he already has that spell in his book in which case its value is far less.

Obviously, but if she hasn't, it has the value that getting the spell would normally cost (either as a scroll or as a spellbook) and what you can get from selling it.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Obviously, but if she hasn't, it has the value that getting the spell would normally cost (either as a scroll or as a spellbook) and what you can get from selling it.

Your logic is a bit flawed first, you can't adjust the value of an item so subjectively. A suit of +1 fullplate isn't worth any more or less based on if a member of the party can use it for something other then to sell.

Why should the spellbook's treasure value rise or fall based on IF the wizard can learn spell from it. He already has to pay 100gp/level to scribe it in. And the book can only be sold for half market value 50gp/level.

A scribed spell has only one use to prepare spells. So its only valuable to someone without that spell already in their book. I have no use for a spell book containing limited wish if I can already cast the spell, but a scroll of limited wish is quite valuable as it means I won't have to prepare it.

A scrolls value is spell level × its caster level × 25gp, So a scroll of fireball costs 375gp and could be sold for half that value or consumed by use.

But say the standard fee to learn a spell from another wizard is Spell-level x 50gp. Why use the scroll fee? why not the mentor fee?

The treasure value should be based off of what the PC's can get for selling it, nothing more, nothing less.

[Greenish]

Your logic is a bit flawed first, you can't adjust the value of an item so subjectively. A suit of +1 fullplate isn't worth any more or less based on if a member of the party can use it for something other then to sell.

You have to adjust the virtual value of the items in the loot if you wish to give both usable and unusable equipment as loot and stick to the WBL. An item the PCs will sell is only worth half of what an item they'd use would be worth.

Why should the spellbook's treasure value rise or fall based on IF the wizard can learn spell from it. He already has to pay 100gp/level to scribe it in. And the book can only be sold for half market value 50gp/level.

Because if she can learn spells from it, it's essentially twice as useful.

A scribed spell has only one use to prepare spells. So its only valuable to someone without that spell already in their book. I have no use for a spell book containing limited wish if I can already cast the spell, but a scroll of limited wish is quite valuable as it means I won't have to prepare it.

Spells with XP component are different, yeah.

But say the standard fee to learn a spell from another wizard is Spell-level x 50gp. Why use the scroll fee? why not the mentor fee?

Hmm, mentor fee and then some (since they can sell it afterwards) would work too, should such mentors feature prominently in the setting.

The treasure value should be based off of what the PC's can get for selling it, nothing more, nothing less.

Why? An item they can actually use presents double loot then.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Why? An item they can actually use presents double loot then.

Because your not a mind reader and can't be sure if they'll actually use it. You might assume the fighter will use the +2 Flaming Longsword which is superior to his +1 weapon. But he may decided to sell it to fund making his weapon holy.

Randomly generated treasure is based off the market value, their is no adjustment for "if your party can use this item"

You have to adjust the virtual value of the items in the loot if you wish to give both usable and unusable equipment as loot and stick to the WBL. An item the PCs will sell is only worth half of what an item they'd use would be worth.

No you don't, if you go simply by the base value of the item your fine. Most of the gear the PC's find will be sold anyway.

Because if she can learn spells from it, it's essentially twice as useful.Spells with XP component are different, yeah. Hmm, mentor fee and then some (since they can sell it afterwards) would work too, should such mentors feature prominently in the setting.

Your still ignoring the wizard has to pay out of pocket to scribe it into his own book. If he finds a spellbook containing something he wants to learn he still has to pay 100gp/level of spell to put it into his book and can only sell it for 50gp/level.
He only makes half as much money if he scribes it into his book, the twice as useful is already paid for by the cost to scribe spells.

And really, your not going to remember every spell the wizard has in his book[chances are the wizard won't remember without looking it up] and what if he decides the spell isn't worth learning. Would you readjust the treasure from the encounter after learning the wizard decided paying to scribe said into his book wasn't worth it. If the spellbook contained spells the wizard didn't know but you thought he did. Would you take treasure away?

[Harris the Ford]

well, didnt mean to stir the pot but 100xspell level seems dandy to me. I see both sides of the argument but dont really cohere to one or the other.