See through smoke? [3.5]

[gomipile]

Is there a way for a PC to see clearly through smoke?

[Frog Dragon]

Not really sight but...
1. Get Blindsight (somehow)
2. Get Mindsight (if you're a caster, Mindbender Dip and nab the feat from LoM.)
Note, while the latter completely trounces any attempt to hide, it just detects minds, not say.. inanimate objects. Blindsight might be more to your liking, but I can't remember a way off the top of my head to get it. Polymorph, maybe?
Also, another good one is Touchsight if you're psionic.

[gomipile]

Polymorph into a Grimlock? I'm not sure that that would be as convenient as I'd like.

[Frog Dragon]

I'm quite sure there are other forms good for this.

[Darrin]

Is there a way for a PC to see clearly through smoke?

In 3.0, there was a Druid spell called fire-eyes that let you see through natural non-magical smoke.

Unfortunately, in D&D the odds of you ever encountering smoke that wasn't generated via a spell or magical effect are pretty close to finding a dwarf who loves elves and hates beer.

[Jack_Simth]

In 3.0, there was a Druid spell called fire-eyes that let you see through natural non-magical smoke.

Unfortunately, in D&D the odds of you ever encountering smoke that wasn't generated via a spell or magical effect are pretty close to finding a dwarf who loves elves and hates beer.

You can, however, arrange to manufacture the effect... assuming a cooperative DM, anyway.

[Lysander]

Here's your answer:

X-Ray Vision

On command, this ring gives its possessor the ability to see into and through solid matter. Vision range is 20 feet, with the viewer seeing as if he were looking at something in normal light even if there is no illumination. X-ray vision can penetrate 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, or up to 3 feet of wood or dirt. Thicker substances or a thin sheet of lead blocks the vision.

Using the ring is physically exhausting, causing the wearer 1 point of Constitution damage per minute after the first 10 minutes of use in a single day.

Moderate divination; CL 6th; Forge Ring, true seeing; Price 25,000 gp.

Now, while the description only mentions "solid matter" I think it's obvious in context that it would be able to also see through mists too.

[deuxhero]

In 3.0, there was a Druid spell called fire-eyes that let you see through natural non-magical smoke.

Core or splat?

[Darrin]

Core or splat?

Sorry, should have specified it was in Masters of the Wild. 0-level spell. Technically, still legal for 3.5 play.

[Theodoriph]

Here's your answer:



Now, while the description only mentions "solid matter" I think it's obvious in context that it would be able to also see through mists too.

Smoke is often thicker than 3 feet (even if you count it as solid matter), so it wouldn't work.



To the OP, why this need to see through smoke? What is your DM throwing at you?

[2xMachina]

You can try the Blindsight spell.

Lvl 3 iirc.

[Zaq]

Diadem of Purelight, with the Crown bind. Requires two feats or a two-level dip in Incarnate. Negates all concealment less than total concealment within the radius of effect, and explicitly calls out fog (which I guess would probably include smoke?) in its effect. This does mean that the smoke no longer provides YOU with concealment, either, but if you want that, yeah, I agree with Blindsight or Touchsight.

[Curmudgeon]

Smoke is often thicker than 3 feet (even if you count it as solid matter), so it wouldn't work.

Smoke isn't a solid. It's a collection of solids and liquids suspended in gas. So in D&D terms it will block line of sight (because it provides concealment) but not line of effect.

[Theodoriph]

Smoke isn't a solid. It's a collection of solids and liquids suspended in gas. So in D&D terms it will block line of sight (because it provides concealment) but not line of effect.

I know smoke isn't a solid. The only way X-Ray vision would work on smoke, as another poster suggested, was if you included smoke as a solid (since X-Ray vision is specifically limited to solid materials). But since it specifies that all materials thicker than 3 feet block X-Ray vision, then smoke would per RAW. Follow the conversation.

[Lysander]

I know smoke isn't a solid. The only way X-Ray vision would work on smoke, as another poster suggested, was if you included smoke as a solid (since X-Ray vision is specifically limited to solid materials). But since it specifies that all materials thicker than 3 feet block X-Ray vision, then smoke would per RAW. Follow the conversation.

The spell is just following the rules of physics in that x-rays are blocked by dense matter. The denser the matter the less it takes to block them. Dirt isn't that dense so it can penetrate up to three feet. Stone is denser so it only goes a foot. Lead is very dense so just a thin sheet can block it. Smoke is not very dense at all so it makes sense you could see very far through it.

And if you want to get really rules lawyery, smoke is a solid. Or at least the little particulates of matter floating in it are. And they're what's blocking your vision. You're basically seeing through airborne dust.

[Snake-Aes]

Smoke isn't a solid. It's a collection of solids and liquids suspended in gas. So in D&D terms it will block line of sight (because it provides concealment) but not line of effect.

Uhh if it lets you see through solid, and smoke is "lots of solid flowing around gas", wouldn't it see through those solids, leaving only the gas in the way?

[Lysander]

Uhh if it lets you see through solid, and smoke is "lots of solid flowing around gas", wouldn't it see through those solids, leaving only the gas in the way?

It should, but I think "solid matter" is just the upper range of its ability. It should also be able to see through mist, smoke, water, up to a point. When they say Superman is "faster than a speeding bullet" that doesn't mean he can't outrun a turtle because it isn't a bullet.

[AslanCross]

The Diamond Mind stance Hearing the Air grants Blindsense out to 30 ft.

[Curmudgeon]

Uhh if it lets you see through solid, and smoke is "lots of solid flowing around gas", wouldn't it see through those solids, leaving only the gas in the way?

Yes, it would. I was countering Theodoriph's argument that 3' of smoke would block X-ray vision. When you exclude the transparent gas, the effective thickness of 100 yards of smoke is still well under 3', so the smoke shouldn't block X-ray sight at all.

[Lysander]

That still leaves the question of fog, which is just floating droplets of water, but I think it would still see through that too simply because it is less dense than solid matter.

[Sindri]

Smoke is made up of a whole lot of tiny solid objects, each of which is a lot less than 3 feet thick. Thus, X-ray vision works n smoke but not steam or mist (can't see through liquids by RAW).

The best way I've found to get blindsight is to play a druid and get the feat from Masters of the Wild that gives 120ft blindsight to anyone capable of turning into a dire bat.