Devils, Genisis,and Origin of Species

[Desril]

Using the Forgotten Realms, the devils of Baator are all about getting souls of the Lawful Evil, and corrupting mortals into becoming LE so they can be claimed. Now, using the FC2, it says that the devil who is to cause for the mortal becoming LE gets the soul when it dies, so what would be to stop a devil from creating a demi-plane and filling it with a new, short-lived species of either free-willed beings and creating a LE society for them, or even just making the race LE? Wouldn't that devil basically have just created a soul factory? Or is there some flaw with this that I'm unaware of?

[Yukitsu]

When you can cast origin of the species, you really don't need to bother with any of that nonsense anymore. At that point, finding new and abusive mitigating factors for your spells is more important.

[jguy]

At that powerful, he starts competing with Asmedeous (however you spell his name) for rulership

[Desril]

When using more...appropriate...levels for the Lords of Hell, reaching 9th level spells isn't that impressive.

[Yukitsu]

Origin of the species isn't level 9.

[Desril]

Hm, my mistake, I was going based on memory. Still, a dc 40 check isn't that hard to reach, and it doesn't put a player anywhere near a CR 80 or so of Asmodeus.

[nolispe]

I would presume there is something about that in the pact primordial.

[Eldan]

Honestly, by the time you can cast that spell, you might as well just create a new species of epic warrior-devils and throw them in the blood war instead. Same result, more cost-effective.

[The Tygre]

Not to mention that you have a superior looking over your shoulder skimming some extra off the top, and obliterating you if you won't let him. This is to say nothing of the horde of inferior devils even now conspiring against you, possibly with aforementioned superior.

[hewhosaysfish]

Using the Forgotten Realms, the devils of Baator are all about getting souls of the Lawful Evil, and corrupting mortals into becoming LE so they can be claimed. Now, using the FC2, it says that the devil who is to cause for the mortal becoming LE gets the soul when it dies, so what would be to stop a devil from creating a demi-plane and filling it with a new, short-lived species of either free-willed beings and creating a LE society for them, or even just making the race LE? Wouldn't that devil basically have just created a soul factory? Or is there some flaw with this that I'm unaware of?

...And that's the story of how the Material Plane was created!

[Jota]

I would argue that half of what you're talking about (creating an inherently lawful evil race) is not really corrupting anyone, per se. Similarly, if the society is the mechanism by which they are introduced to evil, I'm not wholly convinced I can give the devil credit either.

The definition of corruption I can find on the web that most fits what I imagine the devil should be doing is: "moral perversion; impairment of virtue and moral principles." This means there has to be a moral base for the target to fall from -- just because the apple is on the ground doesn't mean I made it fall from the tree.

That's how I see it at any rate.

[SocratesOnFire]

Devil's can't cast epic spells, as that would require the feat (Epic Spellcasting) which in turn requires the ability to cast 9th level spells. Since Baatezu advance by HD and not class levels, and since spell-like abilities don't count as "cast spells" by RAW, I see no means by which a devil could cast Origin of Species.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats...icSpellcasting
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spell...sAchaierai.htm

[Yukitsu]

Non-associated class levels are a viable option. You do not have to advance a monster by its hit dice.