Geist: the sin-eaters

[Ichneumon]

So, any thoughts on it?

[TroubleBrewing]

I like it.

[Shinizak]

stimulating topic guys.

[Ichneumon]

stimulating topic guys.

Yeah, my fault. I should've been more eloquent

I am now somewhat experienced in storystelling normal/core nWod, and would like to move to one of the expansions, however I can't seem to make up my mind on which one to buy. The regular Vampire seems nice, but I'd like opinions on the others and Geist seems interesting and quite non-cliché.

[lisiecki]

It is a role-playing game, published by White Wolf

[Tengu_temp]

Looks like someone in White Wolf liked the Persona games.

[Kesnit]

I've not played it since the only ST I know who runs WoD isn't familiar enough with the game. (Not like she hasn't had time to read the book. I happen to know it's been sitting on her bed stand for a few months. I know this because she snagged it from my side of the bed!)

One thing I found interesting is in the Morality system. As it reads, it isn't a basis for good --> evil acts like the Morality in other games. It is a measure of how closely your acts coincide with what your geist wants. If you have an Evil geist, you could have a high Morality (whatever it is called) and still be (in D&D terms) Chaotic Evil.

[The Glyphstone]

Geist is awesome, easily my favorite of the NWoD games, with Mage a close second.

And as mentioned, it's easily got the most unusual Morality-equivalent of all the NWoD games. Manslaughter is a Synergy hit, but premediated murder isn't.

[Kythorian]

One thing I found interesting is in the Morality system. As it reads, it isn't a basis for good --> evil acts like the Morality in other games. It is a measure of how closely your acts coincide with what your geist wants. If you have an Evil geist, you could have a high Morality (whatever it is called) and still be (in D&D terms) Chaotic Evil.

Yeah, its called Synergy. It keeps things interesting, since even non-evil Geists generally have a very alien morality, so there is always some conflict between what your char wants and what the geist wants to keep things interesting.

In general, I like it. Don't know if its the best of nWoD, but its one of the better ones. Certainly worth giving a try if you are interested in nWoD.

[Ichneumon]

What kind of powers do the players have in Geist? I have some idea what vampires would be able to do, but with Geist, well, what is it like?

[The Glyphstone]

Geist is probably the second-most complicated power system after Mage.

There are 10 different 'Keys' - you start with 2, and can buy more for a flat 10XP. Each Key is a different theme - illusions, nature, fire, earth, industry, etc.

There are 8 different Manifestations, the closest thing to Vampire Disciplines/Werewolf Gifts/etc. Each has 5 ranks, doing different and more powerful things as you use a higher rank of the manifestation - the wild card, though, is which Key you used to trigger the Manifestation. Using different Keys affects the results of the Manifestation and usually gives a bonus effect of some sort at higher ranks.

Example: The Curse manifestation lets you put a hex on your victim. Applying the Grave-Dirt (elemental earth) Curse 1 makes it impossible for them to sleep for the duation of the effect - at Grave-Dirt Curse 3, they are short of breath and lose 1 stamina for the duration. If you used the Primeval (savage nature) Curse 1 instead, they'd suffer a penalty to their social rolls versus animals; at Primeval Curse 3, any animals that encounter them will attack to injure unless it'd be suicidal to do so.

[SurlySeraph]

There's a pretty wide range of powers; you're very good at finding out what happened to dead people (whether by looking at their corpses or communicating with their ghosts), you've got some pretty good abilities for determining what's going on around you (with the various Oracle and Boneyard powers), with a little thought you can become extremely difficult to kill, and there are a various combat, stealth, and mind-affecting powers.

The powers aren't all that well balanced against each other. There's very little reason to take the Rage, ever, and the Boneyards are mostly very powerful.

What I like least about Geist is that they don't really have a supernatural weakness, unlike the other supernaturals in WoD (sunlight for vamps, silver for wolves, etc.). Sure, there's plenty of fluff about your Geist influencing your actions in frightening or senseless ways and possibly trying to possess you, but there really aren't any mechanics to back that up.

[The Glyphstone]

What I like least about Geist is that they don't really have a supernatural weakness, unlike the other supernaturals in WoD (sunlight for vamps, silver for wolves, etc.). Sure, there's plenty of fluff about your Geist influencing your actions in frightening or senseless ways and possibly trying to possess you, but there really aren't any mechanics to back that up.

That, and there's no Veil or Masquerade or Moon Madness or anything stopping you. It's perfectly okay for you to go firing off your powers in broad daylight in the middle of Times Square - well, okay in the sense that you won't get smacked down by Paradox or cause everyone to automatically go crazy.

[SurlySeraph]

Exactly. There should be some penalty for being too public with Manifestations - a Synergy hit or attracting possibly-hostile ghosts due to greater general awareness of your power are decent ones. And there should be more mechanics for conflict with your Geist; a chance of possession or penalties to some actions for a while whenever you imperil your Synergy, and possibly a chance at developing compulsions caused by particular triggers related to your Geist and its life (e.g. a Geist that was once a soldier may urge you to hate people of the nationality he fought against, or a Geist that died in a freak washing machine accident may make you scared of washing machines).

[Ichneumon]

Thanks! I've just bought Geist a few hours ago, been reading it and I'm loving it.

[Project_Mayhem]

To late to interject, noooooo

buy Changeling too

[TheOOB]

I like Geist, it is one of my prefered nWoD settings. The powers are interesting, not quite working like any other types powers, but also not being confusing or difficult to use(my biggest complaint about mage is how long it takes a cast a spell, 5 seconds to say what you want, and 10 minutes arguing what arcana and rank, and if it is covert or vulgar.) I also like that Geists have a fairly clear purpose, makes it easy to make adventures. I always liked changelings, but designing adventures has always felt a little weird(okay you just escaped from Arcadia and lost any chance of ever leading a normal life...now what?)

[Project_Mayhem]

Now you work constantly to prevent the fae from reclaiming you. This is really the drive of all changeling games, and has loads you can do with it - Dodging privateers, being forced to fulfil a dangerous pledge, waging a massive political campaign to restabalise the freehold, taking out an unstable court leader. That's all off the top of my head thinking as I type.

[Fax Celestis]

Exactly. There should be some penalty for being too public with Manifestations - a Synergy hit or attracting possibly-hostile ghosts due to greater general awareness of your power are decent ones. And there should be more mechanics for conflict with your Geist; a chance of possession or penalties to some actions for a while whenever you imperil your Synergy, and possibly a chance at developing compulsions caused by particular triggers related to your Geist and its life (e.g. a Geist that was once a soldier may urge you to hate people of the nationality he fought against, or a Geist that died in a freak washing machine accident may make you scared of washing machines).

Nah, there weren't mechanics for the Shadow in Wraith: it's a ST thing, not a mechanics thing.

[The Glyphstone]

Nah, there weren't mechanics for the Shadow in Wraith: it's a ST thing, not a mechanics thing.

Isn't Geist just as much a spiritual (no pun intended) successor to Mummy as it is Wraith?

[Fax Celestis]

Isn't Geist just as much a spiritual (no pun intended) successor to Mummy as it is Wraith?

It may well be. I'm not very familiar with Mummy. I know Geist is a spiritual successor to Orpheus, which was a direct descendant of Wraith.

[Ichneumon]

To late to interject, noooooo

buy Changeling too

Well, maybe that will be my next line, although I think I'd go for Vampire or Werewolf before getting into another non-major line.

Anyway, I'm loving the fluff of Geist and I'm recruiting for a pbp game (with me as storyteller) here.

Actually, now I think of it, of what I've seen of the other lines, I think I'd prefer Promethean over Changeling.

[MetaCarpal]

I like Geist in principle, but I find the mechanics to be terribly flawed. This makes me sad.

It's pretty clear from reading the book that they had one idea for how the powers should work, then changed it shortly before the GenCon-release deadline and rushed to change everything, and missed a lot of stuff. More to the confusion of the reader, the rules writers and flavor-text writers seemed to have some very different ideas on how things worked, from Death to Bargain to Manifestations to Krews. (Gods below, don't get me started on Krews!)

For some of the issues spotted so far, see the "error consolidation" thread on the White-Wolf forums.

I love the hell out of this game, nonetheless. I just feel like I need to write a set of house rules to make it workable. First: change the key skills for Manifestations so 90% of them don't work off of Occult...

[Mugabe]

Too bad there's not gonna be any Supplement books.

[Umael]

Nah, there weren't mechanics for the Shadow in Wraith: it's a ST thing, not a mechanics thing.

*blink*
*blink*

Um... I think I recall there being a few.

You know... get too much Angst, your Shadow can take you over? The Harrowing? Shadow Arts?

Oh, and it being a ST-thing? Not the way I saw it. Your Shadow was played by a fellow player (a lot easier for the ST).

[Fax Celestis]

*blink*
*blink*

Um... I think I recall there being a few.

You know... get too much Angst, your Shadow can take you over? The Harrowing? Shadow Arts?

Oh, and it being a ST-thing? Not the way I saw it. Your Shadow was played by a fellow player (a lot easier for the ST).

Sorry, I said "Wraith" when I meant "Oblivion", the LARP version.

[SurlySeraph]

Too bad there's not gonna be any Supplement books.

Except that Underworld one.

[Kesnit]

Actually, now I think of it, of what I've seen of the other lines, I think I'd prefer Promethean over Changeling.

The problem with Promethian is that they literally ruin the area they live in. Having a party of them would mean massive destruction.

[The Glyphstone]

Isn't that why most, if not all, Promethean campaigns are basically continuous ongoing road trips? At least, that's how the game was originally described to me.

[Mugabe]

Except that Underworld one.

While the Book of the Dead should of been a Geist Supplement book, it's a World of Darkness core Supplement since it covers all the splats. It gives special attention to Geist because the Underworld is a Sineater's bread and butter.