(3.5) Marilith skeleton-a few questions.

[Ilmryn]

I'm planning to use a marilith skeleton(or two) for my necromancer's servant(s). However, applying the skeleton template to a marilith proved complicated.

1. The Mariltih description states that its feats, along with its natural abilities allow it to attack with six weapons at no penalty. As a skeleton, it retains its natural abilities, but not its feats. I'm lost as to what penalties, etc., a marilith skeleton would have when dual wielding. Does anyone have any idea?

2. I aforesaid dual wielding fails, what is the damage bonus it would get when using six arms to use the same weapon? Would it stay at (str mod*1.5) as with two arms, go up linearely to (str mod*3.5), or do something else entirely?

A stat block for a finished Marilith skeleton would be helpful as well, if that is allowed. Thanks in advance!

[Siosilvar]

I'm going to say that the "natural abilities" reduce the penalty to hit while multiweapon fighting by another 4. That's the only way to make sense of it with one-handed weapons and all.

3.5*Strength modifier is correct, but I believe the weapon has to be made specifically for six arms.

[Ilmryn]

I'm going to say that the "natural abilities" reduce the penalty to hit while multiweapon fighting by another 4. That's the only way to make sense of it with one-handed weapons and all.

3.5*Strength modifier is correct, but I believe the weapon has to be made specifically for six arms.

So a marilith skeleton fighting with 1 long sword and 5 short swords would be at no penalty...eh, I think I will save myself some trouble and use the scissors sword.

[JBento]

You have a bigger problem - namely, how to get the marilith skeleton in the first place.

Demon corpses don't stay corpses - in previous editions, a demon killed in any plane other than its own would reform in it (and be prevented from leaving it by 1,001 years).

Lately, when killed anywhere, demons go through the same process they used to when dying on their home plane - i.e., their bodies go "poof" (through a variety of processes) and their essence melds with their home plane.

[AslanCross]

You have a bigger problem - namely, how to get the marilith skeleton in the first place.

Demon corpses don't stay corpses - in previous editions, a demon killed in any plane other than its own would reform in it (and be prevented from leaving it by 1,001 years).

Lately, when killed anywhere, demons go through the same process they used to when dying on their home plane - i.e., their bodies go "poof" (through a variety of processes) and their essence melds with their home plane.

That is a problem, but if he's the DM he can just fiat it away with some arcane dimensional lock deal.

Anyway, my solution to the problem is to just drop all the weapons and have it attack with its slams or claws.
As an aside, where's the scissors sword from and what does it do?

[arguskos]

As an aside, where's the scissors sword from and what does it do?

Savage Species. Exotic six-handed weapon. 2d8 slashing, 19-20/x2 crit. Can pincer people. Is made to use the Str bonus from six-arming something. Made by mariliths to capitalize on their nature.

[Set]

You have a bigger problem - namely, how to get the marilith skeleton in the first place.

As I understand it;

Summoned extraplanar creatures (summon monster Y) are not 'really' physically present, and their bodies go poof when they 'die.' (This may also apply to summoned non-extraplanar critters, as you can't eat a Summoned Nature's Ally either, or milk a summoned viper for venom, or sell the horn of a unicorn you've summoned with Summon Nature's Ally IV, which also may explain why Druids are so willing to summon animals / fey / etc. into certain death situations, knowing that the 'real' creature will not be killed by whatever happens to it's summoned facsimile/avatar/whatever).

Called extraplanar creatures (planar binding, planar ally, gate) are physically present, and when they die, they die 'for real' and leave behind corpses.

[Urpriest]

As I understand it;

Summoned extraplanar creatures (summon monster Y) are not 'really' physically present, and their bodies go poof when they 'die.' (This may also apply to summoned non-extraplanar critters, as you can't eat a Summoned Nature's Ally either, or milk a summoned viper for venom, or sell the horn of a unicorn you've summoned with Summon Nature's Ally IV, which also may explain why Druids are so willing to summon animals / fey / etc. into certain death situations, knowing that the 'real' creature will not be killed by whatever happens to it's summoned facsimile/avatar/whatever).

Called extraplanar creatures (planar binding, planar ally, gate) are physically present, and when they die, they die 'for real' and leave behind corpses.

It's not a summoned versus called difference. Outsiders on their home plane go poof, despite being physically present. It's why you need very specific spells (rather than just True Resurrection) to bring them back.

[JBento]

Indeed - the 3.5 book on the Abyss (forget its name) even had a table for you to roll on if you wanted a random "poof" effect for demon corpses

[Lord Loss]

It's In FCI: Hordes of the Abyss, page 9 (in the Sidebar)

[hamishspence]

It's not a summoned versus called difference. Outsiders on their home plane go poof, despite being physically present. It's why you need very specific spells (rather than just True Resurrection) to bring them back.

Actually, Complete Divine states that True Resurrection works (though Resurrection and Raise Dead don't.)

I think the SRD might say something like that as well.

EDIT: It does:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubty...m#outsiderType

Traits
An outsider possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature’s entry).

•Darkvision out to 60 feet.
•Unlike most other living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don’t work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.

[PinkysBrain]

Basically the Marilith has Improved Multiweapon Fighting(Ex) as a natural ability, even though it isn't in the description ... this is what it retains, which isn't much use without actually having multiweapon fighting any more.

The rules for using more than two arms to wield a weapon are from Savage Species ... so whether it adds 0.5 strength bonus per arm completely depends on whether your DM allows it.

[Caewil]

If you're the DM, if you want a Marilith skeleton to use six weapons without penalty, it uses six weapons. It's not like it will make a big difference to anyone who isn't melee.

[Ilmryn]

Problem-I'm not the DM. Thats why I'm doing the gate shenanigans.
If my DM won't let me use the marilith, does anyone know any good corpses that dont go poof to animate?

[Navigator]

Horned Devils are really good. As a plus, if you awaken them, they get their fast healing back, and I think their stunning attack as well.

[Claudius Maximus]

Concerning the state of the corpse and the raisability of demons, even in FCI there's a 5% chance the corpse stays behind like a normal creature, so Marilith skeletons are possible, if rare.

[Urpriest]

Concerning the state of the corpse and the raisability of demons, even in FCI there's a 5% chance the corpse stays behind like a normal creature, so Marilith skeletons are possible, if rare.

That's right afterwords, though. At best, it shows that the rules are undecided about what happens to such corpses, and at worst all it means is they may or may not explode in some gruesome manner upon death, but they will inevitably fade with time. In any case it's really more of a setting detail than a mechanics detail, so I would ask your DM which is true in the setting in question. If Mariliths disappear though, be aware that a Horned Devil will as well. It's an outsider thing.

[Keld Denar]

Various giants make good skeletons. They don't go poof. Things like Hydras and Dragons make better zombies though, since zombies keep all modes of transit and zombie hydras can attack with all heads despite their zombie nature. Giants also make decent zombies because of the 2:1 HD conversion when zombified, so they'll have MASSIVE amounts of HP for tanking.

[Ilmryn]

Various giants make good skeletons. They don't go poof. Things like Hydras and Dragons make better zombies though, since zombies keep all modes of transit and zombie hydras can attack with all heads despite their zombie nature. Giants also make decent zombies because of the 2:1 HD conversion when zombified, so they'll have MASSIVE amounts of HP for tanking.

The problem with zombies is that they double HD, so you pretty quickly run into the 20 HD max that is stated in the MM.

[LOTRfan]

The problem with zombies is that they double HD, so you pretty quickly run into the 20 HD max that is stated in the MM.

Then may I suggest the zombie dragon template? I find it quite useful.

[Ilmryn]

Then may I suggest the zombie dragon template? I find it quite useful.

Problem-no Draconomicon on my bookshelf.

[JBento]

Problem: marilith=/=dragon