partially charged wands

[Fitz10019]

A friend and I were discussing the fair pricing of partially charged wands. Let's say, a 2nd level spell in a 10-charge wand. A 50-charge wand normally costs 4500gp.

Pricing A, simple percentage: 1/5 of 4500 is 900, so a 10-charge wand would cost 900gp.
Pricing B, sell-back: selling back 4/5 of 4500 is 3600/2, so a 10-charge wand would cost 900 (for the 10 charges kept) + 1800 (for the 40 charges sold back at half value) = 2700gp.

To me, the simple percentage is too cheap -- why would anyone buy a 50-charge wand if he can buy five 10-charge wands for the same price? [Okay, the DM decides availability, but the pricing method is still too cheap. It's a still volume discount without the volume.]

To my friend, looking at the sell-back pricing, 2700gp for a 10-charge wand is way too high. 10 2nd-level scrolls cost 1500gp. Why pay more than 1500gp for a wand of equal power?

I think it is pointless to have an item that is priced in a such a way that no one would buy it. For balance, the price of any item should make it a tempting purchase, but never a definite purchase.

What do you lot think? Does anyone use another pricing method, or have a from-the-gut price?

[JaronK]

Because Wands are always made with 50 charges, I'd expect that partially charged wands just aren't very available. Nothing comes onto the market originally that way, so it's just unlikely. Sure, you could use 5 10 charge wands if you wanted... but you'd have to find them.

But they're cheap enough if you can find them. After all, 10 spells may cost less, but that requires having the caster there. You need Lesser Vigor in a dungeon, not in town where the local level 1 Cleric is hanging out.

JaronK

[Private-Prinny]

Go with the percentage, so a 10-charge wand would be worth 900 GP, but put partially charged wands where they belong. With the rest of the randomly found loot.

Also, I think you have it backwards. Why would anyone carry around 5 wands when they could get 1 equally powerful wand for the same price (assuming all of the charges are for the same spell)?

[Keld Denar]

In the end, it depends on how much of the wand you plan on using. If you are running a 1-off game, a 10 charge wand is going to be a WAY better deal, simply because you probably won't have time to blow all 50 charges in the 4-5 hour game slot, at which point all unconsumed consumables will be considered wasted. If you do burn the whole wand, it doesn't matter if its 1x50 or 5x10 charges. If you don't use the whole wand, you are still paying for the unused charges making it worthwhile to break it up into smaller incriments.

If you really want to abstractify it (hehehe, I made up a word), rule that there are in fact NO charges, and the wand has a simple pay-as-you-spray feature. Insert gold into one end of the device, magic comes out the other. This is the ultimate conservation of resources, since you only pay for what you use, and not a copper piece more.

[Marnath]

Go with the percentage, so a 10-charge wand would be worth 900 GP, but put partially charged wands where they belong. With the rest of the randomly found loot.

Also, I think you have it backwards. Why would anyone carry around 5 wands when they could get 1 equally powerful wand for the same price (assuming all of the charges are for the same spell)?

I agree, i'd much rather have a 50 charge wand than 5 10 charge wands. Especially with a dm that actually makes you explain how you're carrying 15 weapons, ten wands a baby grand piano etc.

[Thinker]

Also, I think you have it backwards. Why would anyone carry around 5 wands when they could get 1 equally powerful wand for the same price (assuming all of the charges are for the same spell)?

Obviously so that you can play a monk who uses 5 different spells

[The Glyphstone]

I agree, i'd much rather have a 50 charge wand than 5 10 charge wands. Especially with a dm that actually makes you explain how you're carrying 15 weapons, ten wands a baby grand piano etc.

That's what Henchmen are for. Can't be expected to carry your own piano, after all.

[Marnath]

" the half-orc porter screams as the tentacled monstrosity snares him and bites him in half." Lol, what do you do when the henchman die?

[Flickerdart]

If you really want to abstractify it (hehehe, I made up a word), rule that there are in fact NO charges, and the wand has a simple pay-as-you-spray feature. Insert gold into one end of the device, magic comes out the other. This is the ultimate conservation of resources, since you only pay for what you use, and not a copper piece more.

That's hilarious and I'm going to steal the idea.

[The Shadowmind]

" the half-orc porter screams as the tentacled monstrosity snares him and bites him in half." Lol, what do you do when the henchman die?

Animate Dead.

[Marnath]

O.o what good is a legless zombie?
What do you do if you're not playing a bad guy?

*edit ignore me, i seem to have a gift for thread derails.

[Keld Denar]

" the half-orc porter screams as the tentacled monstrosity snares him and bites him in half." Lol, what do you do when the henchman die?

Duct Tape?

[RndmNumGen]

That's hilarious and I'm going to steal the idea.

One game I was playing in removed gold pieces(and other metal coins) because they were too easy to duplicate, and instead the currency was crystalized magic.

[Yukitsu]

If you really want to abstractify it (hehehe, I made up a word), rule that there are in fact NO charges, and the wand has a simple pay-as-you-spray feature. Insert gold into one end of the device, magic comes out the other. This is the ultimate conservation of resources, since you only pay for what you use, and not a copper piece more.

"Tom, where's that fireball!"
"Hold on, I've almost got the 224th gold coin in there. Shoot, I'm short a silver... 1 copper, 2 copper..."

[Marnath]

"Tom, where's that fireball!"
"Hold on, I've almost got the 224th gold coin in there. Shoot, I'm short a silver... 1 copper, 2 copper..."

And there's the ugly downside to what seemed like a good idea....

[Keld Denar]

Silly fools...you need a wand with hopper-like autofeeding feature. Then you just have to change "magazines" which are really just boxes full of coins that attach to the wand.

Seriously, get one of those, preferably in a roughly cylindrical shape that mounts to the middle of the wand, hanging down, attach a pistol-style Metamagic Wand Grip (CMage) to the back, and you've got yourself a fantasy style Tommy gun. Now you just need to play in an Eberron game, hang off the side of the Lightning Rail while shooting at an elemental airship trying to land grappling hooks onto the bank car. Epic!

[Lapak]

I agree, i'd much rather have a 50 charge wand than 5 10 charge wands. Especially with a dm that actually makes you explain how you're carrying 15 weapons, ten wands a baby grand piano etc.

You can alpha-strike faster with five wands if you've got people to use them; that's a pretty good reason to want them. Hirelings or followers, each armed with a 10-charge wand and a single level in an appropriate class, would make for a potentially disastrous way to break the action economy. Even two or three party members capable of using them could be pretty ugly.

[Yukitsu]

A magazine of that would also be kinda funny. It'd be about 3 pounds including the magazine itself attached to a quarter pound wand, and only have one minimum caster level shot.

[Tyndmyr]

Well, a significant downside to the five wands is that you have to spend time drawing the new wands when the old one is expired. Not a ton of time, sure, but actions are actions. A 50 charge wand you can stick into your wand socket and forget about it.

Theres also magic item attunement. Solid feat. Activate a magic item once successfully, and no UMD checks for the rest of the day with it. Good for those with CC UMD and poor cha. Obviously, full wands are better this way.

And of course, availability. Partially charged wands make sense in the context of a used magic item dealer, or a monster stash. They make a lot less sense at ye olde magic mart.

[Project_Mayhem]

I'm sure there's a gatling wand attachment for Warforged in Eberron.

[The Glyphstone]

" the half-orc porter screams as the tentacled monstrosity snares him and bites him in half." Lol, what do you do when the henchman die?

Duct tape, as mentioned.

[Project_Mayhem]

Oh, and duct tape for the multiple wand problem assuming your not a 'forged

[Keld Denar]

There is something like that. Its in the Stormreach book, IIRC.

[Boci]

I'd say most magical shops would have a partially charged wands bin. Depending on the size you the town you can either have a set amount of wands and determine them (say 2d6+2 core spells and 1 non-core spell each with 1d4+2 charges) for a town, or assign a % chance for any particular wand (say 15% for any wand, 1d10 charges per wand) for a city. Useful resource, but not something to count on.

There is something like that. Its in the Stormreach book, IIRC.

You mean Stormwarack, or is there a 3rd party book I'm unaware of? Probably the former but thought I'd check.

[Keld Denar]

Stormreach is an actual book. Its an Eberron setting book, like Secrets of Sarlona or Xen'drik or Sharn, City of Towers. I forget the name of the actual feat, but I remember it being fairly cool for Warforged Artificers...

[Doug Lampert]

What do you lot think? Does anyone use another pricing method, or have a from-the-gut price?

Personally, I wouldn't bother. There aren't going to be that many 10 charge wands on the market.

IMAO there are no "magic item shops" there are rich merchants who take a couple of items on risk, and there are NPC casters who make items to order. The effect is typically that PCs can buy what they want, but it mostly needs to be stuff that can be manufactured by one of those NPC casters working to order. This is especially true of useful stuff like 5 charge wands, those get sold by the merchants to their good, regular, local customers and/or to the government.

But if you need a price:

A 50 charge wand costs 750 * caster level * spell level GP. That's 15 * stuff GP a charge. (Where "stuff" is caster level * spell level.)

A one charge wand is better than a scroll, the advantages are mostly minor, but they're mostly on the side of the wand.

So a one charge wand needs to cost more than 25 * stuff GP. Which means that 1 charge wands need to cost more than 1/50th of a 50 charge wand. But not much more because the fact is that a 1 charge wand isn't much better than a scroll.

So we want expending 49 charges to raise the cost/charge more than 10 * stuff GP (to make it more expensive than a scroll), but probably not more than 20 * stuff GP (to make it not too much more expensive).

Charge a premium of 3 sp * spell level * caster level per expended spell and you're done.

A one charge level 1, caster level 1 wand costs 29.7 * spell level * caster level GP. Slightly more than a scroll, but not really enough to matter. Which is why I wouldn't bother, it's not really enough to matter.

[Keld Denar]

Another fun abstractification (yay made up words!), would be to have some kind of Wand Potential Relay Transferance Device (WPRTD for short). The WPRTD would allow you to plug in two wands of equal level and transfer charges from one to another. That way, if the PCs went into Mag-Mart and wanted to buy a 10 charge wand, the cheerful clerk there would just take an uncharged wand, a charged wand, and plug them both into the WPRTD, and give the PC exactly as many charges as he or she desires.

[subject42]

There is something like that. Its in the Stormreach book, IIRC.

There's also a wand gauntlet thingy in Dungeonscape. It's a free action to pop out a wand, but you have to drop it to get a new one.