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2010-08-06, 12:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
[3.5] How do the 'Bite of the X' spells interact with Wildshape?
Say you are Wildshaped into a Dire Bear, which by default has 2 claws (2d4+x) and 1 bite (2d8+x/2). Then you cast Bite of the Weretiger on yourself, which grants you 2 claws (1d8+x) and a bite (2d6+x/2).
What attacks will you have, and what damage should they be dealing? Do you just take the better of the two sets, or would yhe spell override your innately superior natural weapons?
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2010-08-06, 12:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] How do the 'Bite of the X' spells interact with Wildshape?
Generally you take the best of whatever is available to you. In this case, ignore the natural weapons; the point of the spell is to add Bite of the WereFoo's ridiculous stat bonuses to the ridiculous stats you already have by being a Dire Bear (which tends to make your base damage values rather meaningless anyway, since you'll be swinging a 40+ Strength.)
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2010-08-06, 12:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
Re: [3.5] How do the 'Bite of the X' spells interact with Wildshape?
Hmm...so if I have a Dire Bear animal companion, I can Share Spells my Bite of the Werefoo with it and then also cast Animal Growth on it...
As a secondary question, how does a druid deal with the problem of Damage Reduction? His wildshaped claws aint made out of silver/adamantine/cold iron etc.
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2010-08-06, 12:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] How do the 'Bite of the X' spells interact with Wildshape?
There are a couple spells that allow natural weapons to overcome material DRs.
Otherwise, you just overcome DR the way druids overcome everything. Cast a spell, add aggression! RAWR!
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2010-08-06, 12:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2010
Re: [3.5] How do the 'Bite of the X' spells interact with Wildshape?
I think there are some magic items in MIC which help with that.
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2010-08-06, 01:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
Re: [3.5] How do the 'Bite of the X' spells interact with Wildshape?
Question on Grappling while Wildshaped:
In the PHB, the one of the Grappling options is "Damage your Opponent." The descriptino mentions using grappling to deal Unarmed Strike damage. Should the druid choose to do so, then a) he can't use one of his Natural Attacks in place of his Unarmed Strike correct? and b) does he take a -5 penalty to each successive "Damage opponent" attempt just like with iterative attacks?
Another option is "Attack your opponent" and this one works with Unarmed Strike, Natural weapon, or light weapon. Normally one doesn'tmake iterative attacks with natural weapons. If your wildshaped form has 2 claws and a bite, do you get to make all 3 regardless of your actual BAB, and if so, then do you take the standard -2 penalty on the secondary natural attack (assuming the Multiattack feat of course)?
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2010-08-06, 01:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
Re: [3.5] How do the 'Bite of the X' spells interact with Wildshape?
Don't forget girallon's blessing and charge of the triceratops for three extra attacks per round. Plus lion's charge so you can pounce. And mass snake's swiftness, so that if you have to move and make a single attack, you can instead move, make a single attack, and give all of your allies an extra attack too.
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2010-08-06, 01:38 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] How do the 'Bite of the X' spells interact with Wildshape?
Grappling for monsters is wierd. The rules don't really cover it, not surprisingly. The rules in the PHB are for player grappling, when you are dealing UAS damage. It doesn't make much sense for a bear to hug you and deal UAS damage, does it? Not really. Also, monsters with natural attacks kinda get shafted, since they can't make iterative grapple attacks with their limbs. It takes a bit of creative rules modification to deal with this, and it gets worse for a creature that has UAS damage AND natural attacks, like a Tashalatora based Monk/PsyWar who has the Deepspawn feat or the Illithid Grapple feats, or who just manifests Claws of the Beast.
There is a REALLY good guide to grappling monsters somewhere here in GitP, but my google-fu is weak. I saw a link to it not long ago, and was gonna bookmark it, but my computer restarted over night and I forgot about it until it was too late.
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2010-08-06, 01:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2008
Re: [3.5] How do the 'Bite of the X' spells interact with Wildshape?
The following might work but would be very expensive:
1. Take the Amulet of Mighty Fists +1
2. Add Transmuting Weapon property (total cost becomes +3 bonus equivalent or 54,000 gp).
3. Add Wildling Clasp so that it transfers in wildshape (another 4,000 gp)
There is also the option of using Mouthpick weapons (LoM pg 46), but that can only be applied to your bite attacks.ESPRE Super Powers Roleplay Engine: An open game RPG about super powers.
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2010-08-06, 02:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
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2010-08-06, 10:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] How do the 'Bite of the X' spells interact with Wildshape?
If you have DR yourself, your natural attacks automatically overcome DR of that type (except, of course, DR/-)
Actually, you can substitute a natural attack or light weapon for your unarmed strike in a grapple.
Originally Posted by SRDAnother option is "Attack your opponent" and this one works with Unarmed Strike, Natural weapon, or light weapon. Normally one doesn'tmake iterative attacks with natural weapons. If your wildshaped form has 2 claws and a bite, do you get to make all 3 regardless of your actual BAB, and if so, then do you take the standard -2 penalty on the secondary natural attack (assuming the Multiattack feat of course)?
Some options available while grappling (such as “Damage Your Opponent” and “Pin Your Opponent”) state that they may be used in place of an attack. The monster gets as many “attacks” in a full attack action as it would get if it were attacking with a weapon, based on its base attack bonus: +1 to +5, one attack; +6 to +10, two attacks; +11 to +15, three attacks, and +16 and up, four attacks. Each one after the first would suffer a cumulative –5 penalty on the roll (just like a character with a high BAB making multiple weapon attacks).Wiki - Q&A - FB - LIn - Tw
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2010-08-06, 11:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2009
Re: [3.5] How do the 'Bite of the X' spells interact with Wildshape?
An unorthodox way to overcome DR.
Get more damage :P.
DR5/- is overcome by getting +5 damage to your attack.
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2010-08-06, 11:55 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
Re: [3.5] How do the 'Bite of the X' spells interact with Wildshape?
Fax, is there any way to overcome to innate -4 penalty when attacking in a grapple? with my not-so-hot BAB and the second attack at a -5, it's not likely to hit. But then, my opponent is not going to do much either.
Should I choose to try to do Unarmed Damage with the opposed grappling option, what would the unarmed damage of a large or huge creature be? 1d4 and 1d6? Guess those size increases don't really matter as much when you're not a monk heh.
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2010-08-06, 12:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] How do the 'Bite of the X' spells interact with Wildshape?
There is a 3rd level stance in ToB, something Wolverine something Stance, that lets you use ANY weapon in a grapple without penalty. That includes natural weapons. Unfortunately, as a straight drood, you won't be able to get it until your 12th level feat due to IL restrictions, and it'll cost you 2 feats (one for Martial Study: any Tiger Claw).
Other than that, Rake attacks never take -4 when grappling, IIRC, so if you have a form that gains a Rake attack, you can use that. If you need to increase your UAS damage, a Monk's Belt is a great start. 5th level monk gives you 1d8 base damage as a medium creature. 1 size increase is 2d6, 2 size increases is 3d6. Thats better than 1d3 > 1d4 > 1d6... Alternatively, Dip Fist of the Forest for 1-3 levels for 1d8 or 1d10 base as a medium creature.
The DM I'm playing my ECL5 Tash grappler with (who has tentacles thanks to Deepspawn) agrees that monsters (and monsterous PCs) get the shaft while grappling, so he allows me to make grapple attempts (ONLY to do damage, no pinning or other grapple options) with my tentacles. With penalties, his attack bonus with the tentacles in a grapple is like, only -3, but his grapple mod with the tentacles is a more competative +19, even though its opposed roll. A successful grapple check with the tentacles does tentacle damage instead of the UAS damage the rules dictate, which is FAR lower due to Monk UAS progression. You could ask fo the same if you are making a dedicated grappler. Ultimately, it allows him to hit more often with his tentacles, but the damage when he does is much lower. Its a pretty good trade off and helps smooth out the damage/round curve.
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2010-08-06, 03:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
Re: [3.5] How do the 'Bite of the X' spells interact with Wildshape?
Unfortunately, we are pretty much limited to Core + PHB2 + the Completes + Spell Compendium, so many options are not available. Still, even core only Druids kick butt, and with a 40+ str, even unarmed damage will hurt.