I feel like a bad DM...

[Halae]

Alright, I've been playing DnD 3.5 for a long time now (and have no intention to upgrade. 3.5 and pathfinder is where I'm staying) but just last week got the chance to try out running a DnD game myself. a dungeon master! it was an amazing feeling - having been playing for 5 years as a player, the chance to run it as a DM was a very nice change. Because I am new, I decided I'd go with a premade adventure, and chose the one out of the back of the Eberron campaign setting, since I was familiar with the setting and I'm confident my players haven't read through the adventure. anyways, on the first fight, it's a warforged barbarian, not a particularly deadly foe to a good team, even at level 1. A series of bad rolls on the player's part and the warforged has decimated the party, even going so far as to kill the druids animal companion in a single hit.

At this point, we called it so that everybody could figure out what happened, rewrite their characters, and go home. I feel like I did something wrong. Is this a normal situation?

(For note, the party isn't exactly optimized, but they're not wimps either. Kind of the middle ground)

[bobspldbckwrds]

i know that encounter!

and, no, you aren't a bad dm, tpk's happen.

[awa]

at level one hit points are so low getting knocked out with a single blow is not even unlikely much less impossible. hit points are so low one good hit can drop most non martial pcs and a decent crit with a great ax will knock out any normal character.

[Marnath]

Cutter is a dangerous opponent if she gets the drop on you, but a decent group shouldn't have too much trouble with her unless the dice gods are against you. The only thing i can think is if you try again, have the guard show up a few rounds early to help them. That also would make it easier to get the guard to help, because they won't suspect the pc's if they see the real killer.

*edit @starbuck V: the book says she, not he. :smallnitpick:

[Starbuck_II]

Alright, I've been playing DnD 3.5 for a long time now (and have no intention to upgrade. 3.5 and pathfinder is where I'm staying) but just last week got the chance to try out running a DnD game myself. a dungeon master! it was an amazing feeling - having been playing for 5 years as a player, the chance to run it as a DM was a very nice change. Because I am new, I decided I'd go with a premade adventure, and chose the one out of the back of the Eberron campaign setting, since I was familiar with the setting and I'm confident my players haven't read through the adventure. anyways, on the first fight, it's a warforged barbarian, not a particularly deadly foe to a good team, even at level 1. A series of bad rolls on the player's part and the warforged has decimated the party, even going so far as to kill the druids animal companion in a single hit.

At this point, we called it so that everybody could figure out what happened, rewrite their characters, and go home. I feel like I did something wrong. Is this a normal situation?

(For note, the party isn't exactly optimized, but they're not wimps either. Kind of the middle ground)

Wait, was it pathfinder or just 3.5?

What was the party?
What was the parties' tactics?

So they lost to the primary encounter where the CR 1 Warforge attacks (then sents out that message when killed).
Did they get in surprise round or fail + Flat foot?
He only rages 3 rounds (meaning if they survive 3 rounds, he'll lose his benefit).
After Rage ends, he will ignore the partry to recover sachel if they still live it says.

[Shinizak]

Your first game really shows what kind of DM you're like, so you may hae shot yourself in the foot there. another problem is that you probably should have given a subtle upper hand to the party, let them get away, and come back with a plan.

What you could do to save this however, is tell them that there is a powerful enemy roaming the country side who is murdering the much needed vigilantes of the country. give that villain a few more levels and make him a BBEG later on. this will make the players feel like their party wipe was at least justified in the fact that they got some much needed intelligence on his fighting style and his ruthlessness, on top of that when they do reach and hopefully kill him, they'll feel justified in doing so.

[Halae]

Wait, was it pathfinder or just 3.5?

What was the party?
What was the parties' tactics?

So they lost to the primary encounter where the CR 1 Warforge attacks (then sents out that message when killed).
Did they get in surprise round or fail + Flat foot?
He only rages 3 rounds (meaning if they survive 3 rounds, he'll lose his benefit).
After Rage ends, he will ignore the partry to recover sachel if they still live it says.

3.5

Fighter, druid, warlock, and rogue

the warforged moved forward, getting a flat-footed attack, and proceeded to one-shot the rogue. took down the fighter over the next two rounds without taking a single hit (the players were rolling 1s and 2s). essentially the warforged just sytematically moved from character to character, cutting heads off. she didn't even take enough damage for me to initiate the rage

[Marnath]

3.5

Fighter, druid, warlock, and rogue

the warforged moved forward, getting a flat-footed attack, and proceeded to one-shot the rogue. took down the fighter over the next two rounds without taking a single hit (the players were rolling 1s and 2s). essentially the warforged just sytematically moved from character to character, cutting heads off. she didn't even take enough damage for me to initiate the rage

Ouch. Sounds like it just wasn't your night. That happens sometimes...

[zimmerwald1915]

(the players were rolling 1s and 2s).

Short of fudging the dice or changing the Warforged's personality so that she'd have let the ones she didn't one-shot escape, I don't think you could have done anything differently. Bad rolls should have consequences, and personally I would have felt coddled if my DM had to save my character and hir allies from a CR1 monster.

EDIT FOR CLARITY: you're not a bad DM, these things happen, either let them try again or switch modules if you feel trying again would be repetitive.

[Gnomo]

This is the reason why I never play on 1st level, for me the first level is to stat children, all teenagers and adults in my campaigns are 2nd level or higher.

I think you should let your players make 2nd level characters for this campaign, even if the adventure is for 1st level characters, this creates the effect that the campaign starts easy and becomes harder as it advances.

[Shyftir]

First level is the level at which the RNG controls all things.

They all got wiped sure but, they were level 1. I saw a level 1 party get wiped by a single bugbear once. You aren't a bad DM. They rolled crap for crap.

[Beelzebub1111]

When I ran that encounter it went a little differently.

"DIE FLESH CREATUR-"
*Thunk Slash*
"XPNAU? KTHNX"
Stupid elf rangers with their stupid high spot checks

[jiriku]

If your group likes low-level play and you want to make hits less flukey like that, consider the Vitality system variant in Unearthed Arcana. It essentially gives Con hitpoints to everyone. OTOH, if your group isn't especially focused on low-level play, don't worry about it. Everything evens out by levels 2-3, and by level 4 the characters will really start to come together. D&D has a "sweet spot" where the rules work most smoothly and effectively, from levels 4-12.

[Volomon]

Alright, I've been playing DnD 3.5 for a long time now (and have no intention to upgrade. 3.5 and pathfinder is where I'm staying) but just last week got the chance to try out running a DnD game myself. a dungeon master! it was an amazing feeling - having been playing for 5 years as a player, the chance to run it as a DM was a very nice change. Because I am new, I decided I'd go with a premade adventure, and chose the one out of the back of the Eberron campaign setting, since I was familiar with the setting and I'm confident my players haven't read through the adventure. anyways, on the first fight, it's a warforged barbarian, not a particularly deadly foe to a good team, even at level 1. A series of bad rolls on the player's part and the warforged has decimated the party, even going so far as to kill the druids animal companion in a single hit.

At this point, we called it so that everybody could figure out what happened, rewrite their characters, and go home. I feel like I did something wrong. Is this a normal situation?

(For note, the party isn't exactly optimized, but they're not wimps either. Kind of the middle ground)

I donno, sounds like something might have been done wrong because twice against merely two PCs have I not managed to kill them. I used such tactics as push them off the bridge that the fight occurs at.

I can't see every single player not managing to do anything. There must have been some rules not used in order for this to occur, the amount of attacks 5 player would get for instance is pretty high. If the characters took just one of theirs and came from behind to bullrush the NPC into the crowd of PCs not only did they get 4 regular attacks during their turn but also in addition get another 4 attacks for AoO. Not only that but a single PC which grappled the NPC would essentially take it to end game right there, especially if he were pinned. The +2 for flanking should have been near constant.

Basically something did go wrong, but that doesn't mean it was you they could have just utterly failed at playing the game.

There is no way one on CR1 NPC can beat 5 level 1 PCs. I couldn't beat two PCs and know that one PC was hanging off the bridge struggling for his life with his AC penalty and almost died on the first attack.

I would say 100% something went wrong, either you were not applying correct pluses to the PCs or the PCs are really really bad.

The chances of multiple players (which you haven't said how many) of failing that many times is low especially for all the possible bonuses they can give themselves in a 1 vs 5 situation.

Cutter has 15 AC, with +2 for flank the group should be hitting her about a little less than half the time if she rages which she does after taking 4 damage her AC is 13 with a +2 for flank she is at 11 with any character using either trip or grapple she is pretty much instant dead.

I would say it's almost unlikely for her to beat one solo character let alone more. For instance a Fighter with a Shield and high AC or even a druid with high Dex and some armor would both be around 20 or so AC.

[Yahzi]

I feel like I did something wrong.

You did do something wrong. You stopped the adventure before you got a full TPK.

Remember, the players are the enemy. They are there to wreck your beautiful world, and they must be stopped by any means necessary.

You're not a Real DM until your players have been TPKed so many times they physically faint when you shout "Initiative!"

[The_Admiral]

You did do something wrong. You stopped the adventure before you got a full TPK.

Remember, the players are the enemy. They are there to wreck your beautiful world, and they must be stopped by any means necessary.

You're not a Real DM until your players have been TPKed so many times they physically faint when you shout "Initiative!"

*Chases with flaming torch and pitchfork*

[Aroka]

The odds of being a good GM when you start out are miniscule. It may be entirely impossible. It's not necessary to be good to have fun playing, but it does help - yet the only way you're going to get good is by making the mistakes, recognizing them, and correcting them in the future.

Your mistake is basic but subtle, and twofold: you ran an adventure as-is. You've got to go through them, think about them, and adapt them. You can't trust someone else to have written an adventure that'll work for you. Yet that wouldn't have helped you unless you'd known to be on the look-out for the actual failure here: an encounter where losing means losing.

Whenever you plan an encounter, you have to consider what the challenge is, what the reward is, and what happens when the PCs lose, because you can't trust the PCs to succeed every time. This is why making progressing a plot dependent on a single challenge, like a skill check you can't re-try, is a horrible idea. The worst idea.

When you create a combat encounter, especially, you have to ask yourself, "What if the PCs lose?" It's always a possibility, and you've got to be aware of it. What sort of consequence are you willing to apply? Everyone dead, start over? That's a boring way to run a game. Everyone left for dead and treated by the local priests, then questioned by the local authorities, and left with a thirst for vengeance? That's a much better solution - it doesn't stop the game. Think about possible results and alternatives, and try to keep it interesting - say yes, not no, always drive the adventure forward somehow.

[Panigg]

Low Level are fun!

Charge, 20, confirmed, one down.

Yay!

It happens. A string of bad rolls on higher levels do the same thing tho. Just ask my barbarian friend who rolled not higher than 5 in five rounds. He died.

[awa]

he said they were rolling really bad and that the barbarian took out one of them in the first round. sometimes the dice gods just hate you and theirs very little you can do about that. You never want to let the pcs know your fudging for them.

[Scarey Nerd]

TPKs happen, but are avoidable. I was running a session yesterday where 3 level 4 PCs almost got destroyed by 6 Goblins and 2 Bugbears. My solution is to make the opponents attack recklessly, simply targeting whatever they're nearest and not concentrating their fire on specific people.

Edit: In reference to bad rolls, these kill more PCs than the DM ever does, in my experience. I've had my players hit themselves over the head with their weapons and knock themselves out in the middle of combat before

[Satyr]

Your mistake is basic but subtle, and twofold: you ran an adventure as-is. You've got to go through them, think about them, and adapt them. You can't trust someone else to have written an adventure that'll work for you. Yet that wouldn't have helped you unless you'd known to be on the look-out for the actual failure here: an encounter where losing means losing.

This.
Premade modules should be used as a guideline and orientation, not as written. I mean would you trust an author who you have never met and who does not know you nor your group or what you enjoy in a game knows better than you how you are supposed to have fun?

And don't worry. Everybody will make mistakes at pretty much every thing they try out for a first time.
Yes, killing characters without much of a pretext is often unfortunately. However, I would concentrate on how to salvage the situation and the adventure and not worry about what happened.

[Kalrik]

GM: The sword glows with a fiendish red light that pulses as you approach. There are ancient arcane runes inscribed upon the blade that you do not recognize. You see brittle white bones protruding from the guantlet gripping the blade, as if the previous weilder sawed threw his own arm to get away from the blade.
PC: Do I recognize the runes?
GM: No, they seem to be part of a magical language.
PC: Well Nevermind them. I touch the bones sticking out of the guantlet.
GM: They crumble to dust, leaving an empty guantlet gripping the sword. As you stare at the guantlet, you notice the the handle for the sword IS the guantlet.
PC: I stick my hand in the guantlet!
GM: You what?
PC: I stick my hand in! You heard me.
GM: Ok then. *picks up PC's character sheet* Alright everyone, roll initative. The wizard put his hand in the guantlet, let out a piercing scream and staggered backwards. His eyes are glowing with the same fiendish light and his face is contorted into a sinister grin.

Best GM I've ever played with. That damn sword posessed the wizard and he used it and his magic to kill two of our party before overcoming the swords ego. Granted he SHOULD have allowed the wizard a save, but he ignored every warning and just did whatever. Spitefull terribly mean gm's that take great pleasure in killing their PCs exist, and many are excellent. Relax, as so many have said, the dice were against the PCs. It happens.

Edit: Point of story, mean GM that ignored RAW completely and killed party members, because he liked it, was still an excellent GM. Don't feel bad. Enjoy the experience and move on.

[Halae]

Thanks everybody, I do feel better about what happened. Besides, the previously druid character has been gabbing non-stop about his new half-orc fighter (made specifically not to be squishy) and the warlock is going to be playing a house cannith heir on run from the house. it shall be glorious, from the sounds of it

[Evard]

At least now your players will be afraid of death :p

[MightyTim]

From the sound of it, your players don't hold it against you. If they're rolling 1 and 2, there isn't much you can do, and it sounds like they've accepted that.

[Psyx]

It happens. As long as you didn't enjoy doing it, or fudge dice and the situation so that it was more likely to happen, nor blatantly fudge dice for it NOT to happen; you're not a bad GM.

And you did a near TPK in your first session. Now the players know that you don't fudge dice for them, nor are overly merciful. You need to have a bit of fear there.

[Devils_Advocate]

The Low-Level Mini-Game, in which characters' fates are decided largely by luck, is a long-standing tradition. The idea, I gather, is that if it's hard to get a character past those first few levels, you'll appreciate it more when you finally manage it. And in those cases when you fail due to said hardness, then at least you probably haven't had a chance to get too attached to that character yet.

This also serves as a sort of explanation for why most of the people in the world don't go whack monsters until they've become superhuman demigods made of pure awesome, given the way that leveling works. Most people don't do this because attempting this is a very good way to get yourself killed.

4th Edition, I gather, tends away from this, as part of a general smoothing out of the power curve and being completely willing to have the PCs arbitrarily function according to different rules than everyone else. (Not that this is a bad thing, mind you. Realism isn't really in the cards for any edition of D&D.)

If you want to avoid PCs being horribly killed in 3.5, it might be better to have your players make 2nd level characters for 1st level adventurers. This also has the benefit of allowing for multiclassing to take place in backstory; the acquisition of a new class in the middle of a campaign may not fit very well into the narrative, in some cases.

[Seatbelt]

Barbarians are PC killers. A party not prepared to deal with the barbarian (or not aware of the danger they are in) is a dead party. Is this your fault.... no. But it is something to keep in mind.