Scout in Pathfinder. Nice?

[Fenryr]

Hello, peeps. I'm here to ask for your opinion: is Pathfinder's Scout a bit overpowered? Or has it lost the "spirit" of Scout?

The Scout appears in Adventuring Classes: A Fistful of Denarii (by Tripod Machine).

Reviews here and here.

For what I've read in reviews (can't get the book right now, 'm not from the US and I have no online paying method) the Scout no longer gets AC. Instead, Scout gets 10d6 of extra damage with a single attack (max level). Just make an attack and get 10d6. Of course the Rogue has the advantage of doing full attack and Sneak Attack, but is that easy to accomplish? Is worth it for the Rogue?

Looks like Scout no longer gets extra movement speed nor additional feats (I may be wrong). Now Scout gets talents like the Rogue.

Now, should I...

a) Get the book somehow and enjoy new Scout?
b) Get book and with my DM homebrew a lil' bit? (for example, reducing the extra d6 and adding AC)
c) Homebrew the 3.5 Scout? (only skills update and minor stuff)

I don't like the idea of new classes with full BAB and SA. The Rogue no longer shines in that area. Yeah, Rogue still has MANY tricks, but something so iconic like SA is now not Rogue's speciality.

[nyarlathotep]

Which scout are you talking about. Pathfinder core has no scout class.

[Fenryr]

Which scout are you talking about. Pathfinder core has no scout class.

'm so sorry. Edited. The book is Adventuring Classes: A Fistful of Denarii and is by Tripod Machine.

[Mojo_Rat]

APG has a Variant of the Rogue called Scout. There is no reason to modify it at all it looks like a solid variant as is.

[Starbuck_II]

Hello, peeps. I'm here to ask for your opinion: is Pathfinder's Scout a bit overpowered? Or has it lost the "spirit" of Scout?

The Scout appears in Adventuring Classes: A Fistful of Denarii (by Tripod Machine).

Reviews here and here.

For what I've read in reviews (can't get the book right now, 'm not from the US and I have no online paying method) the Scout no longer gets AC. Instead, Scout gets 10d6 of extra damage with a single attack (max level). Just make an attack and get 10d6. Of course the Rogue has the advantage of doing full attack and Sneak Attack, but is that easy to accomplish? Is worth it for the Rogue?

Looks like Scout no longer gets extra movement speed nor additional feats (I may be wrong). Now Scout gets talents like the Rogue.

Now, should I...

a) Get the book somehow and enjoy new Scout?
b) Get book and with my DM homebrew a lil' bit? (for example, reducing the extra d6 and adding AC)
c) Homebrew the 3.5 Scout? (only skills update and minor stuff)

I don't like the idea of new classes with full BAB and SA. The Rogue no longer shines in that area. Yeah, Rogue still has MANY tricks, but something so iconic like SA is now not Rogue's speciality.

So review says:
They don't get Sneak attack: they get Targeted Strike.
Scout: They get a Rogue’s BAB, HD, and Targeted Strike, and various abilities.
Targeted Strike works every time the Scout uses an Attack action (as opposed to a full attack). So it eventually becomes a choice of either making 2 or 3 attacks at progressively worse attack bonuses, or 1 attack with up to a +Xd6 damage bonus.

So it is Sneak attack without needing to resort to denying dex/flanking, but since limited to attack action (can't combine with most feat benefits. No full attack TWFing, etc). Basically, you are using Vital Strike (no Charging, etc).

So basically, it is sort a lazy Rogue class: do reliable damage every round, but unless damage is 2d6/odd level (Rogue is 1d6/odd level) then you are weaker damage wise (except in extreme situations when denied ways to sneak attack).

Lose:
Some Talents
Uncanny Dodge tree
Some skills like Use Magice Device

[PinkysBrain]

It's underpowered ... if it was 1d6 per caster level it might be a nice way to make spring attack useful. But at 1d6 per 2 levels it just gets a big meh from me.

[Eldariel]

Hello, peeps. I'm here to ask for your opinion: is Pathfinder's Scout a bit overpowered? Or has it lost the "spirit" of Scout?

Overpowered? Hell, no. Every single combat class can deal more damage on a full attack than Scout's single attack on every relevant level. Overall, the game doesn't work on single attacks (no, not even PF's silly attempts with Vital Strike & co.). You could add 20d6 on a single attack and it still wouldn't be comparable especially once Haste & co. step into the picture. This is the basic reason for why e.g. Fireball isn't efficient outside extreme masses either.

Spirit of the Scout - well, that depends. Skirmish was always kinda strange; "you move around so opponent can't protect himself and you can score a telling blow in the vitals". I mean, sure, I get that moving around might throw some opponents off and you could hit a bit easier but modeling that with extra damage just never made sense. Bonus on To Hit and AC? Sure. But as you are expected to be moving around and avoiding hits to best of your ability in normal standstill fight, the prerequisite movement and some random +1d6 damage just don't add up. So if Skirmish was the spirit of Scout to you, it's lost. But if a "mobile fighter relying on few, telling blows to opponent's weak spot" was the idea, it's still there. Mechanically tho, it's much, much worse than it used to be. And +1d6 damage on Precision still doesn't make any sense; hitting a weak spot is supposed to be a critical - that is, a damage multiplier. In AD&D, that's exactly what Backstab was. In 3.5, it hasn't made sense and still doesn't. So...in that sense, I wouldn't count it as a point for or against PF Scout.


But yeah, mechanically it sucks. Single attacks don't cut it and that's the same for no bonus damage, or +10d6. Only damage multipliers (real multipliers like Mounted Charge multipliers, not some pseudo-real multipliers like Vital Strike that doesn't multiply anything relevant) cut it for making single attacks count as then you can apply the damage somewhat comparable to a full attack with your single attack.

[Starbuck_II]

Possible Houserule:
You know, if they limited to 1/rd, but whenever you attack it might be better.
So you can charge/full attack, but it only applies 1/rd.

Still limited but now you can benefit from Haste, Charging, etc.

[Fenryr]

Thanks a lot for the comments. Gonna leave the final word to my DM.

[QuantumSteve]

I checked it out, and it comes off as a kind off a bland re-flavoring of the Rogue Class. The APG Scout Variant has about as much Scout flavor, but keeps more Rogue flavor.

Basically, it swaps the Uncanny Dodge tree for free SA on a charge, and free SA whenever you move 10, respectively. All the Rogue Variants also get access to several new Talents as well.

[Person_Man]

I think the reviewer might be misreading the class. "Targeted Strike works every time the Scout uses an Attack action (as opposed to a full attack)."

If Targeted Strike works on every attack action, then it should apply to every attack in in full attack, just like you can make a Trip or Grapple attempt as part of any attack action.

If so, then good. The last thing we need is a Scout like the Order of the Bow Initiate, where they get bonus damage but have to give up a full attack.

Really, it's hard to judge without being able to read the class.

[Starbuck_II]

I think the reviewer might be misreading the class. "Targeted Strike works every time the Scout uses an Attack action (as opposed to a full attack)."

If Targeted Strike works on every attack action, then it should apply to every attack in in full attack, just like you can make a Trip or Grapple attempt as part of any attack action.

If so, then good. The last thing we need is a Scout like the Order of the Bow Initiate, where they get bonus damage but have to give up a full attack.

Really, it's hard to judge without being able to read the class.

The designer clarified on the Pathfinder forums: He means Attack action like Vital Strike (no Charge, no full attack, etc).

[Person_Man]

The designer clarified on the Pathfinder forums: He means Attack action like Vital Strike (no Charge, no full attack, etc).

Ah, well then. So the Pathfinder Scout is garbage.

[PinkysBrain]

If Targeted Strike works on every attack action, then it should apply to every attack in in full attack, just like you can make a Trip or Grapple attempt as part of any attack action.

You can make trip and grapple attempts in place of a melee attack ... these aren't actions proper. Attack action refers to the standard action attack, at least in PF.