Pouncing Rogue?

[Devmaar]

Would it be overpowered to allow a rogue to take pounce as a Special Ability?

[MachineWraith]

Overpowered in relation to what?

[Devmaar]

I mean, would that be significantly more powerful than the special abilities given in the PHB?

[Shadowleaf]

Why would a Rogue want to Pounce?

[Devmaar]

To full attack for extra SA damage

[Boci]

Why would a Rogue want to Pounce?

Move and full attack in the same round.

I mean, would that be significantly more powerful than the special abilities given in the PHB?

Probably, but it would be good to allow them to take it.

[Shadowleaf]

I doubt it's on pair with the other Special Abilities, but if you want Pounce, it's only a one level dip in Barbarian to get it.

Honestly, while it is useful, it isn't really that good. I'd rather get a bonus feat than any of the Special Abilities - or Pounce.

[PId6]

I'd allow it. You can get Pounce with a single level dip anyway; getting it at 10th level at the cost of a special ability is quite reasonable. It's useful on the first round of combat (when they're flat-footed), but it's harder to pounce + flank at the same time.

[Flickerdart]

Pounce is pretty useful for a Rogue that can get an absurd initiative modifier. Sneak up on someone, partial charge in the surprise round, pounce, then hide on your turn. Even better when you have Hide in Plain Sight.

[derfenrirwolv]

Exactly how do barbarians get pounce?

[Boci]

Exactly how do barbarians get pounce?

Complete Champion, trades it for fast movement.

[Shadowleaf]

Exactly how do barbarians get pounce?

IIRC, Lion Totem Barbarian from C. Champion.

Edit: Begone, ninja!

[Wonton]

I was actually thinking about a Scout with Pounce the other day. Now that would be awesome, IMO.

[PId6]

I was actually thinking about a Scout with Pounce the other day. Now that would be awesome, IMO.

Dip a level of barbarian on your Swift Hunter and be good to go?

[Wonton]

Dip a level of barbarian on your Swift Hunter and be good to go?

Pretty much. Unless there's a way to get turn attempts for Travel Devotion without dipping Cleric.

[The Rabbler]

Pretty much. Unless there's a way to get turn attempts for Travel Devotion without dipping Cleric.

you mean besides nightsticks?

[Eldariel]

Pretty much. Unless there's a way to get turn attempts for Travel Devotion without dipping Cleric.

Paladin? Sacred Exorcist? Blackguard? A dozen other classes too.. Actually, have a list.

[Wonton]

Paladin? Sacred Exorcist? Blackguard? A dozen other classes too.. Actually, have a list.

Well I meant more like "without dipping any other class" as to keep Skirmish at a maximum.

you mean besides nightsticks?

Will those actually grant you turning attempts if you don't have the ability to turn undead?

Edit: Yeah, no. "Anyone who possesses the rod and is able to turn or rebuke undead gains four more uses of the ability per day."

[Eldariel]

Well I meant more like "without dipping any other class" as to keep Skirmish at a maximum.

Well, you only need 17 levels to get the maximum offensive so you miss out on 1 point of AC; worth it if you ask me. 13 levels will get you +4d6. I think additional Skirmish-classes also fall thusly that you'll have an extra level or two to work with. As such, you don't actually lose Skirmish in the long run, tho you may lose some for certain phases (singular levels where it'd normally increase, to be precise).

[Wonton]

Well, you only need 17 levels to get the maximum offensive so you miss out on 1 point of AC; worth it if you ask me. 13 levels will get you +4d6. I think additional Skirmish-classes also fall thusly that you'll have an extra level or two to work with. As such, you don't actually lose Skirmish in the long run, tho you may lose some for certain phases (singular levels where it'd normally increase, to be precise).

Which is exactly what I was referring to... sure, "in the long run", you're not losing anything, but my games generally don't start at level 17, meaning I (playing this hypothetical character that I have little intention of playing) would be losing out on some levels. It's like saying that a Sorcerer doesn't lose out on a Wizard "in the long run", cause by level 20, they both have 9th-level spells. In fact, the Sorcerer is lagging behind exactly 50% of the time.

[Eldariel]

Which is exactly what I was referring to... sure, "in the long run", you're not losing anything, but my games generally don't start at level 17, meaning I (playing this hypothetical character that I have little intention of playing) would be losing out on some levels. It's like saying that a Sorcerer doesn't lose out on a Wizard "in the long run", cause by level 20, they both have 9th-level spells. In fact, the Sorcerer is lagging behind exactly 50% of the time.

Skirmish only increases damage 4 times though so instead of being behind 50% of the time, you're only behind ~25% of the levels, and not by anything nearly as powerful as higher level spell slots. Instead, you're behind by +1d6/attack damage; 3.5 - ~14 damage. Relevant but nothing major.

More relevant earlier than later since it presents a larger percentile fraction of your composite damage, but as you don't have multiple attacks early, you don't need the dip then either so you won't be left behind until when it's not such a major factor anymore. And, of course, the fact that you get to full attack with Skirmish consistently (as opposed to "occasionally" or "never") means you're way, way ahead in damage compared to anyone without the dip.

[TooManyBadgers]

Dread Necromancer 1/Unseen Seer 1 gains +1d6 Skirmish in 2 levels and Rebuke undead.

edit:
Alternatively, Halfling Monk 1/Cleric 1 gives +1d6 skirmish, a free feat, monk saves/ac, turning and 3 domains.

Or Highland Stalker 1/Cleric 1. Same sort of thing, slightly less payoff.

[Wonton]

Alright, Eldariel, you win this one.
Being able to full-attack skirmish every time, not just when you have a straight unblocked path to your enemy is better than 3.5 damage every 4th level.

[Flickerdart]

Cleric 1 is the best dip in the game, consider it. You can get pretty much anything with judicious selection of domains. Also, take Beguiler (Shining South) for your race - the little critters get 2 claws, a bite, a prehensile tail and also rend. And they only have 1 HD, which swaps out for a class level. Beguiler Barbarians with Pounce and Whirling Frenzy are awesome to behold.