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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    As the title says. All books allowed, but the DM did put the kibosh on my original idea for a teleport-happy warlock because it didn't fit the world (teleporting breaks dungeons).

    I've got several ideas that sound appealing, just need some help deciding and setting up a build. My CO skills are a bit out of date...

    Note that this setting is full-on zombie apocalypse. We're part of an underground thieves' guild that survived. Lots of sewers and such (so no large races/minions/cohorts). I only have one regular companion, who is a weakly optimized gloaming rogue4. Her only big saving grace is that she can sneak attack undead. The campaign is set up for 4 players and as such is high mortality - thus, high-powered builds are great, bordering on mandatory.

    My current favored ideas are:

    -Monk1/Pally2/Favored Soul w/ practiced caster, possibly into Malconvoker. High saves, especially Fort, are really important for obvious zombie-related reasons.
    -Dread Necromancer, no idea on a PrC for that one.
    -Changeling Paladin/Warshaper/Exotic Weapon Master possibly Trollblooded.
    -Cleric focused on necromancy with buff/melee secondary goals. This is a great setting to justify some DMM shenanigans. Is there a better way to build a cleric to fight undead?
    -Gnome artificer. Blasty wands blast zombies good. Too bad it's a glass cannon and would probably get pinned down or ambushed pretty fast especially since we have no party tank.
    -Ranger w/ undead favored enemy, possibly ACFs to aid in undead killing. Probably split feats between bow and TWF to keep versatility.

    Primary goals:

    -Must be a reliable out-of-combat healer, ie be able to use a wand of cure light or whatever. This probably means divine spell access.
    -MUST have a high Fort save... even my previous druid was failing Fort saves due to the sheer number of them.
    -Area effect a plus.
    -MUST have high survivability. Favored Soul elemental bonuses/DR/saves would be a huge help. Good touch AC and random immunities never hurt either.
    -Must be able to operate independently for extended periods. The rogue needs regular healing and the more my character can live without it the better (limited resources). We're frequently away from base for several days or simply encounter so much combat that my druid was out of spells very quickly and depending on animal companion and a mobile wild shape to stay alive... until he got pinned down by a wraith.
    -Cannot be a traditional tank. We occasionally need to swim and deal with tight spaces. Fullplate is a death sentence.
    -Wonky builds, monster races, etc are fine with DM approval.
    -Undead-targeted abilities are a big plus.
    -No large races. We spend too much time in small sewers.
    -Must have some way of dealing with less common threats like incorporeal creatures. This probably means at least half caster, divine considering the need for healing.
    -Must be playable and powerful starting at level 5. If he's weak at 5, he won't reach 6.

    Well, there you have it. A tall order, especially for a lvl 5 character (though close to lvl 6) but I'm confident it's doable. If nothing else, this is a good place to throw out a bunch of all-the-wall, borderline-abusive builds... anything short of planar shepherd brokenness is welcome.

    I'd particularly like feedback on the dread necromancer since I'm mostly unfamiliar with it and the Monk/Pal/FS since I know the build isn't generally optimal but our circumstances might make it worth it. Thoughts?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    Forgot to mention, spiked chain for tripping is an obvious choice for melee-happy characters but I've been pondering a charger build as well. Leaping charge, mounted charge with a nifty mount, something based on a less ridiculous ubercharger... possibilities abound...

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Kobold

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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    Damn full on zombie apocalypse? I'd say... optimize the HELL out of a cleric... I don't know what's the best early 'fight a whole ton of undead' cleric at low levels, but a cleric cheesed to the hilt seems mandatory.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    Have you considered a Dragonfire Adept? I think it would cover a lot of what you're asking for. All of it's DCs are con based, so you can pump it out the ying-yang. they have UMD in class. a reusable AoE breath weapon, built in armor bonus via scales, a high fort save, plus all the nifty invocations. take Entangling Exhalation as one of your feats, and you've got a strong battlefield control option too.

    you can take a level of Dragon Shaman too maybe for the Vigor Aura for some healing. *shrug*

    Edit: You might be able to take the Vigor Aura from Dragon Shaman from the feat Draconic Aura instead of taking a level of Dragon Shaman. I think I'd do that.

    Dragon Wings might be cool too, get the improved version at 6th level for non-magical flight.
    Last edited by Caliphbubba; 2010-08-31 at 07:47 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Caliphbubba View Post
    Edit: You might be able to take the Vigor Aura from Dragon Shaman from the feat Draconic Aura instead of taking a level of Dragon Shaman. I think I'd do that.
    Most DMs intepret that the Vigor Aura cannot be obtained through the Draconic Aura feat, since the Vigor Aura is not listed among the auras in the book. However, you should ask your DM if you can, because it helps take care of a boatload of healing. Even if he disallows Vigor Aura from feat, you could still pick it up by splashing 1 level in Dragon Shaman.

    A more readily available alternative to the Vigor Aura is the Touch of Healing reserve feat (Complete Champion), but that requires to be able to cast level 2 cure spells from your own slots, which mostly means a divine caster.

    Don't forget about Bards. CLW is on their spell list. Additionally, they are arcane casters and can qualify for Precocious Apprentice. You can even use Precocious Apprentice to pick up CMW, and then use that to power Touch of Healing, with just a 1 bard splash. More feat hungry than a Dragon Shaman splash, but you retain the ability to use wands. Watch out for negative levels though, since that strips off your one level 2 spell.

    Look up the Warforged Race. Immunity to exhaustion, nausea, starvation, poison, disease, suffocation and energy drain will make your life much easier. However there is a feat tax to get optimal armor, and healing will be a problem unless you have some means of unlimited partial healing (Touch of Healing or Vigor Aura) or unlimited full healing (Tomb Tainted Soul + Dread Necromancer or Setting Sun Ninja).

    Consider the Amphibious Template in Stormwrack. Humanoid only, lose 2 Dex in exchange for the ability to breath water, might help solve your drowning issues.
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  6. - Top - End - #6
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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Caliphbubba View Post
    Have you considered a Dragonfire Adept? I think it would cover a lot of what you're asking for. All of it's DCs are con based
    The breath weapon is con-based. The invocations are cha-based.

    I wouldn't bother blowing feats into non-magic flight unless the setting includes lots of AMF generator zombies and dispel-zombies.
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  7. - Top - End - #7
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by JeminiZero View Post
    Most DMs intepret that the Vigor Aura cannot be obtained through the Draconic Aura feat, since the Vigor Aura is not listed among the auras in the book. However, you should ask your DM if you can, because it helps take care of a boatload of healing. Even if he disallows Vigor Aura from feat, you could still pick it up by splashing 1 level in Dragon Shaman.
    I wondered about that. I thought it might fly because the feat itself just says "Draconic Aura" and the auras for DS are labeled the same.

    to Greenish good catch on the invocations being cha-based.

    still think Dragonfire Adept is a strong choice for this type of campaign. maybe a Dragonborn Water Orc Dragonfire Adept for extra crunchy cheese, and to help with the drowning too

  8. - Top - End - #8
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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Caliphbubba View Post
    maybe a Dragonborn Water Orc Dragonfire Adept for extra crunchy cheese, and to help with the drowning too
    Water orcs can't actually breathe water, or even hold their breath any longer than other races, and even if they could, they'd lose it to the bahamut process. Still a decent choice at +4 con, though the +4 strength doesn't do much for a DFA.

    For a zombie apocalypse, I'd probably go with warforged crusader. Only weaklings need to sleep, eat and breathe.
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  9. - Top - End - #9
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    Water orcs can't actually breathe water, or even hold their breath any longer than other races, and even if they could, they'd lose it to the bahamut process. Still a decent choice at +4 con, though the +4 strength doesn't do much for a DFA.

    For a zombie apocalypse, I'd probably go with warforged crusader. Only weaklings need to sleep, eat and breathe.
    I meant more for for the swim speed rather than the breathing water. I believe they keep the swim speed, and the ability to take a 10 on a swim check.
    Last edited by Caliphbubba; 2010-08-31 at 12:15 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #10
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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    Cleric of Pelor with Sun/Healing Domains, off the top of my head. Full-on apocalypse means that your cure spells are both healing and artillery, and you can prepare a lot of hide from undead spells too.

    Water Halfling or Enhanced Kobold Variant Druid 5, if your Wild Shape is that hindering. Kobolds (according to a fluff page from RoTD) eat anything, including dirt, bugs, and gravel. No rations. Ever. As a bonus, you could totally whine at your GM to let the kobold ride it's eagle companion. Flying tiny kobold is awesome.

    If you want a really weird tank, what about a Tomb-Tainted monk/dread necromancer with Ascetic Mage? Charisma to AC instead of full plate is not a bad thing, and Tomb-Tainted Soul means that you are healed by negative energy like an undead, so Charnel Touch pulls you back to full HP out of combat no problem.

    Is this a forum game or a real life game?
    Last edited by Ajadea; 2010-08-31 at 12:42 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #11
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    A binder with the feat that improves your Binder level would get you access to both Karsus and Buer. That would give you infinite out of combat healing as well as several bonuses to UMD and magical workings.

    Additionally, it would give you two floating bonuses that could be used to boost saves, hp, DR, or energy resistance.

    It also gets a bonus feat by level 5.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    Races of Water may get a swim speed, but Races of Air don't have to breathe. They're not limited to the examples given, i.e. you could have an Air Human who gets all the typical Human racial abilities but also gains the general traits of all air races, including the Breathless trait.

    I'd go with an Air Human Cleric of Pelor, Sun and Healing domains, PH2 ACF for Healing. If you can use flaws get Extend Spell and Persistent Spell with DMM: Persist. Take Improved Turning and Item Familiar, and you'll need to get Extra Turning at 6th. Go Cleric 5/ Morninglord 1/ Radiant Servant 5/ Morninglord 9, Radiant Servant is in CD and Morninglord is in PGtF.

    Your Item Familiar should start as a +1 Heavy Mace which you pay full price for, and then you can upgrade it yourself for half price to a Rod of Defiance in MIC. That ends up costing you only 4,812 gp and 200 XP, but you'll be getting a 10% XP bonus just for having it. Your other items should include a Sun Disk of Pelor (CC, 100 gp), an Ephod of Authority (MIC, 800 gp), a Healing Belt (MIC, 750 gp), a Reliquary Holy Symbol (MIC, 1000 gp), Full Plate (1500 gp), a Heavy Steel Shield (20 gp), and 18 gp remaining for mundane supplies.

    Hopefully you'll have enough turning attempts to DMM: Persist a Mass Lesser Vigor to give the entire party Fast Healing 1 for 24 hours, so a short break between encounters tops off everyone for free. At 7th you'll get plenty of Greater Turnings to deal with the undead, which will be treated as 4 HD lower thanks to your Rod of Defiance. Try to pick up Night Sticks (LM), a Phylactery of Undead Turning, a Lesser Rod of Extend for Magic Vestment x2, a standard Strand of Prayer Beads with the Bead of Smiting removed (only 9,000 gp as per DMG), a Scepter of the Netherworld (LM), and a Circlet of Persuasion (turning checks are Cha-based checks). Try to save up enough gold to put a special purpose and dedicated power on your Item Familiar at 10th level, at half price of course. I'd make its purpose to destroy undead, and give it the 10d6 Lightning Bolt at will, or the 10d6 Fireball at will if you think wouldn't do much collateral damage to your party. Remember that being intelligent the item gets actions on its turn, and it would activate its dedicated power on any undead it's aware of with no effort on your part, and it will only cost you 30,000 gp and 2400 XP to give it that.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    Martial Spirit, a 1st level Crusader stance, gives infinite out-of-battle healing. It heals 2 hp to you or an ally within 30 ft whenever you hit something. Just find something to smack, or use a tiny weapon that deals 1 damage, and you can heal as much as you want. Spike Chain for controlling sounds fun, too.
    Last edited by dgnslyr; 2010-08-31 at 07:50 PM. Reason: moar details

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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    Mystic Ranger. Sword of Arcane Order. Wild Shape.

    Go to town.

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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    Great options guys. I like the PH2 ACF for cleric, but what the point of applying it to the healing domain? I can convert my spells to heals anyway.

    EDIT: you did link me to the item familiar rules. My bad. Request deleted.

    I'm also wondering about favored soul vs cleric. Seems to me like cleric's defining advantage is DMM/persistent buff abuse, which is nice but won't be horribly powerful until later levels. Also, at the moment we can't buy any items over 800gp due to limited resources (we can start with better equipment using WBL but not purchase in-game) - so no crazy nightstick shenanigans.

    Favored soul, on the other hand, meets or beats the cleric in pretty much everything aside from casting and DMM. Spontaneous healing isn't that much better than carrying a wand of cure light until I get Heal for massive undead nuking. FS also gets that huge pile of spells per day which are actually useful with the amount of combat we routinely see between rests. Tack on Pal2 and Mnk1 and it'll have ridiculous defense against everything but touch attacks. Actually... does the Monk AC/Wis to AC bonus apply to touch attacks? Air race template would keep me from drowning but no need for armor would actually make me decently mobile. Tempting. I don't suppose there's any way to get those crazy save bonuses and such without losing caster levels via ACFs or whatnot?

    EDIT: Warforged vs Air race. Hmm... Warforged is obviously less cheesy since the air race is something for nothing whereas warforged makes you lose the human feat in exchange for nice defenses. I'd lean toward warforged if for no other reason than to avoid cheese. Also, we may be hitting the underdark soon and I don't really want -2 saves vs duergar or umber hulks or whatever is waiting for us there...

    What book is Binder in?

    If you want a really weird tank, what about a Tomb-Tainted monk/dread necromancer with Ascetic Mage? Charisma to AC instead of full plate is not a bad thing, and Tomb-Tainted Soul means that you are healed by negative energy like an undead, so Charnel Touch pulls you back to full HP out of combat no problem.

    Is this a forum game or a real life game?
    Real life game. Where do I find Tomb-Tainted Monk and Ascetic Mage? Cha to AC sounds great - like I said, I'd like to avoid the heavy metal approach if possible. What's Charnel Touch?

    Where is Dragonfire Adept? If the invocations are cha-based perhaps it would mesh well with Favored Soul/Paladin?

    Thanks all!
    Last edited by fracas; 2010-08-31 at 08:54 PM.

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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    Binder is in Tome of Magic. It's the best thing to come out of the book.

    Also, you'll eventually get to bind a vestige that grants you pretty good turn undead capabilities.

  17. - Top - End - #17
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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    DMM isn't exactly necessary apart from the one spell I mentioned, Mass Lesser Vigor, which you can Persist every day from the start. You can pick up Craft Rod at 9th level and make your own Night Sticks if you want more out of it, but realistically you'll want to be using your turning attempts to one-shot one encounter after another with Extra Greater Turning from Radiant Servant. Apart from that just save your wealth to dump it into your Item Familiar later on.

    Duergar, Umber Hulks, etc. don't have the earth subtype, so air races wouldn't take a -2 to saves against their abilities and spells. You'll only be at a disadvantage against spells with the [earth] subtype (example) and creatures with the [earth] subtype (example). It won't even matter except in a very, very small fraction of your encounters, even if you're in the Underdark.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    I don't have ToM; will have to see if the DM does.

    Remaining questions:
    1. FS vs Cleric?
    2. Air race vs warforged? Warforged seems superior aside from the loss of human feat and skill points, especially if combined with unarmored defenses to AC (no need to take a feat for optimal armor). I'm also concerned that clerics tend to have awfully low touch AC... especially considering that it was incorporeal undead that killed my previous druid (a wraith).
    3. Dragonfire Adept and Binder both sound interesting (assuming I can get access to Tome of Magic). When do all these ideas start to take off? If any of them are going to be really potent around level 5-8ish that would be optimal since I doubt if my character will survive more than 3 levels even with high optimization. If any don't really take off till later levels I'll just save the idea for my next character...
    4. No dice on adding Pally2 or Monk1 for extra defense? I'm also eyeballing Champion of Corellon as an off-tank beater that retains high mobility and touch AC. Thoughts on that?

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    Your highest touch AC tank will probably be in heavy armor with the feat Deflective Armor in Races of Stone. It's a psionic feat so it requires either a psionic race, psionic class, or spending a feat on Wild/Natural Talent. It also requires Heavy Armor Optimization, which requires a +4 BAB, so to have it starting out you'll probably need to go something like Fighter 4/ Psychic Warrior 1, you'll get bonus feats at exactly the earliest levels you can qualify for those.

    A Wraith has 5 HD and +2 Turn Resistance, effectively 7 HD for Turn Undead. That Cleric of Pelor counts as 7th level for turning, and the Wraith will count as -4 within 30 feet of him. Without even using a Greater Turning you'll destroy it in a single attempt guaranteed. The best defense is a good offense, and in this case you're guaranteed to outright destroy it in a single shot. Turn Undead doesn't suffer an incorporeal miss chance, you don't need to make an attack roll. In an undead heavy campaign, a turn undead focused Cleric can strut around confident that nothing stands a chance against him.

    Once you've gained one level, at 6th level, you'll count as 8th for turning, and a Greater Wraith at CR 11 has 16 HD. Within 30 feet it will count as 12 HD, so a Greater Turning and a decent roll on the turning check and you'll outright destroy that in a single attempt. In just a few more levels, once you may actually start encountering those, you'll be able to do more Greater Turnings than your number of daily encounters should be, and even with an average roll on the turning check you'll succeed in destroying that.

    Add to that 24-hour Fast Healing 1 for your entire party, from the time the character enters play, and you've got the party's new MVP.

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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    Note that the above only applies while you still have turn attempts. From the sound of your DM it wouldn't surprise me if he decided to send 20 Wraiths at you, one at a time, just so you'll run out of turns.
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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by fracas View Post
    Remaining questions:
    1. FS vs Cleric?
    Hmm, Favored Soul's MAD, spontaneous casting a level behind cleric's, FA lacks Know: Religion for identifying (and knowledge devotion vs.) undead, FA gets no domains or turn undead…

    Oh sorry, was there a question there?
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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    Yeowch. And to think I figured turn undead was sub-optimal for non-DMM uses. There's my go-to area effect for zombie crawls... now watch, we'll get sent to fight mind flayers in the underdark for the next 10 levels :p

    The high touch AC suggestion you mentioned is one I'm familiar with; was actually pondering doing something alone those lines as a modified horizon tripper. I just keep going the caster route instead... combination of nobody else wanting to play them and generally high utility I guess. Not sure I can fit it into this Cleric build though; it's already feat-starved.

    Opinion on air human (worried about it being banned as cheese) vs warforged? Is favored soul just no good for a build like this? Elemental resistance, DR, three good saves, and gobs of spontaneous casting is a pretty tempting list... adding in free WF/WS is just icing.

    I guess after those questions are cleared up I'm ready to build. Woohoo!

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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    Greenish - just saw your post after I hit Reply. All valid criticisms of the FS, and lacking k.religion is a sting in an undead/underdark campaign. It already cost my druid some useful information.

    I don't see a huge problem with MAD. Considering how many spells a FS gets, it seems pretty save to optimize for DCs rather than extra spells. Items should be enough to get me at least one extra spell at each level by the time I get access to that level. Also, having so many spontaneous slots means I can re-buff as needed. All that DMM persist is great until I get hit with a dispel... then not so much. With FS I can happily re-buff after combat and never worry about spell selection.

    And you have to admit the stuff they get is pretty darn good. Free energy resistance against half the elements? DR/silver or cold iron? Three good saves? Cha synergy with Paladin for completely ridiculous saves? Free proficiency, focus, and specialization in deity's weapon? Cleric BAB? Lots of free feats in stark contrast to cleric DMM builds? At very least, it completely curb stomps the Sorc. It may not have the offensive oomph of a cleric, but it's a pretty impressive tank without needing a complicated build or heavy item support or cheese dependency. Give credit where due :)

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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by JeminiZero View Post
    Note that the above only applies while you still have turn attempts. From the sound of your DM it wouldn't surprise me if he decided to send 20 Wraiths at you, one at a time, just so you'll run out of turns.
    The build I posted gets +3 turning attempts from the Reliquary Holy Symbol on top of 3 + Cha bonus. Assuming an easy Cha 14, that's eight turning attempts, seven of which are spent on DMM: Persistent Mass Lesser Vigor. He probably won't face another wraith right away, and he already has a +1 weapon so at least he has a chance of hitting incorporeal creatures. Don't forget he gets Searing Light in his 3rd level domain slot, and positive energy such as Cure spells don't suffer the incorporeal 50% miss chance. Once he does run into a wraith or similar opponent, he could hold off on using that turning attempt and instead just Protection from Evil himself and duke it out. It would still need a really poor roll to miss him, but he'd get a +2 vs the DC 14 Fort save to avoid its Con drain, so he should only fail on a poor roll.

    Save that turning attempt for a multiple creature encounter, and hopefully he'll hit 6th level before the DM realizes what he's capable of. At that point he'll get Extra Turning and have at least five turning attempts per day, one of which can be a Greater Turning which should destroy anything the DM is willing to throw at them. They'll likely face the strongest undead creature that he thinks they could beat, and it gets destroyed by a Greater Turning. Upon learning that he can do that only once/day (at this level), they'll encounter another one and defeat it the traditional way. That's double the loot and double the XP for an encounter much higher than their party level, so it will power level them and he'll get even more powerful turning abilities that much faster. Once he gets Extra Greater Turning at 7th level he can set about eradicating the entire undead plague, and in just a few days game time they'll be high enough level to take on anything.

    I should mention that the spontaneous casting ACF for the Healing domain is good because you get more options than just Cure spells, so you won't have to spend prepared spell slots on Heal.

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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by fracas View Post
    And you have to admit the stuff they get is pretty darn good. Free energy resistance against half the elements? DR/silver or cold iron? Three good saves? Cha synergy with Paladin for completely ridiculous saves? Free proficiency, focus, and specialization in deity's weapon?
    Pretty minor stuff, compared to having faster casting progression and prepared casting (clerics have plenty of situational spells you wouldn't want to waste a known spell slot for). Cleric focusing on wisdom pumps both save DCs and daily spells up.

    And then, you get everything cleric gives on the first level, so you'll PrC, PrC, PrC. I agree DMM can eat quite a few feats, but even without it I'd say cleric is better than favored soul, and cleric + PrCs is much better.
    Quote Originally Posted by fracas View Post
    At very least, it completely curb stomps the Sorc.
    Actual class features are nice, but I'd say sorcerer has at least a bit better spell list (and runestaves, om nom nom). Without PrCs, a favored soul might be a bit better off, but not by much.


    So yeah, I'm not a big fan of favored souls (even though I usually prefer spontaneous casters), but they are a strong class, no denying it.
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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    Very convincing post, Biff :D

    Despite my temptation to use FS as a highly defensive poor lazy man's cleric (no extensive spell list to deal with), I don't see a good Ref save and resistances as being worth it.

    Are you still endorsing air human or is there a good case for warforged or some +Wis race? Of course, with a full caster no LA is highly preferred...

    I doubt if flaws are acceptable but I'll ask. In the meantime, how's this look?

    Cleric5 (Mlord/RS coming at 6+)
    Abilities: Str 15 (+1 = 16), Dex 13, Con 16, Int 13, Wis 18, Cha 14
    Domains: Sun, Heal
    ACF: Spontaneous Heal domain
    H: Extend Spell
    1: Persistent Spell
    3: DMM: Persist
    6: Extra Turning? Improved Turning? Item Familiar? Postpone DMM till 6th to get one of these sooner?

    I could put a 14 in Str or Con and bump my Cha to 16 but I don't think I can justify that for a single extra turn attempt.

    Items... depends on whether I should prioritize Item Familiar over DMM Persist. I'm thinking yes, since I'll otherwise be stuck with a so-so weapon at best, and extra XP is super-candy.

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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    Greenish - Ok, you and Biff convinced me. I will play one at some point though. With ability scores to stats left and right through Monk and Pally and Champion of Correllon and absolutely no levels left for FS... but man will he be hard to hit. :p

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    I'd pick up the DMM : Persist early. Reason being : If you don't have it, that's 7 additional Turns you get per day. Either you're not going to need them (and thus have wasted at least one feat on persist, possibly two if you don't use extend), or you'll blow through all of them on undead, setting up expectations with both yourself and your DM.. which you'll then dash against the rocks at level 6. When your DM expects you to be using 7+ more turn attempts per day, and you've only got one, that doesn't go over so well. Better to drop fast healing 1 on everyone now, and expand your options later.
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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    Makes sense. Of course, an early rod of defiance makes sense too. Decisions, decisions...

    Also, is the Sun domain really that good? A single greater turning is nice, but it's only 1/day and the spell selection is only decent. Heat metal is meh. Endure elements is scroll fodder. Searing light is nice vs undead... but I'm wondering if I wouldn't be better served by Good or Glory? +2 on turn attempts and +1d6 damage isn't bad. Neither is a bunch of fun abjurations at +1 CL with Good. I could persist a pretty powerful magic circle against evil...

    And finally it occurs to me that the wording on Plant and Elemental domains says that you get 3+Cha turning attempts vs Plants or Elemental subtype critters or whatever. The wording sounds like those turning attempts might be in addition to the turn undead attempts... and DMM wording doesn't sound picky about what kind of turn attempt you fuel it with. So could I take, say, Plant and Earth domains and go around with a total of 9+3xCon mod turning attempts and persist like crazy? There's probably some reason that doesn't work or it'd be all over the forums, but I'm not seeing it.

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    Default Re: Ideas for a lvl 5 zombie apocalypse character (3.5)

    Dragonfire Adept is in Dragon Magic.

    Tomb-tainted Soul is a feat from Libris Mortis I believe. It lets you be healed by negative energy instead of positive.

    Charnel Touch is the main touch attack a Dread Necromancer gets. It deals negative energy damage at will.

    At this point I'm just answering the questions you asked that I didn't see answered, the others have probably better ideas than what I suggeste, tho I do think a Draonfire Adept would do pretty good in a campaign like this...just not as well as a DMM: Persist cleric :-)

    Edit: Consider getting the Planning Domain...that gives Extend Spell as it's granted power doesn't it? freeing up a feat for extra turning early.
    Last edited by Caliphbubba; 2010-09-01 at 10:30 AM.

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