Should I involve some first-time players in this?

[Darklord Xavez]

I am just entering high school (tomorrow to be precise) and some of my real-life friends and I are going to start a roleplaying group there. I am sure that we will attract a bunch of people and are planning to possibly have multiple games going. My question is as follows:

I am thinking of running a campaign using either mind flayers or aboleths (I can't decide) and am going to make it a horrific campaign (as opposed to heroic). Should I include people who have not played roleplaying games before, as the players will occasionally be losing characters, no too often but much more so than in most games. I am stuck because I know that people not as familiar with the game will probably not be familiar with mind flayers or aboleths and the campaign would have more of a darker feel, but I am afraid that I might just be scaring people away from the game if I do that.
-Xavez
P.S. In case you might want to know, I am already familiar with the rules to a great extent and can teach the basics quickly.

[Newbieshoes]

I'm assuming 3.5 here but, I'd have to say no, throwing newer players into a game with creatures that can 1-2 round you and repeatedly killing them off is a great way to discourage them from wanting to play again. Plus the whole "dark campaign" is just going to give the "OMG DUNGEONS AND DRAGSONS IS TEH DEVIL!!!!!1" mentality folks there (possibly their parents) more ammo.

[Psyx]

^What they said.

[Duke of URL]

I agree with NewbieShoes. I'd think a "heroic" setting would be more ideal for new players, even if it's played as a simple 1-shot or other very short campaign. Let them come to you if they then want something darker/horror-themed (or better yet, be proactive and ask them what they'd like).

[Ruinix]

NO.

roleplay anti-heros or evil theme chars is not for newis, specially those with hard mechanics for learn, exploit and use.

also

Plus the whole "dark campaign" is just going to give the "OMG DUNGEONS AND DRAGSONS IS TEH DEVIL!!!!!1" mentality folks there (possibly their parents) more ammo.

[Yora]

Most new players can very well handle about any kind of campaign. It's very unliekly that anyone freaks out.

However, new players should always start with a campaign that starts at first level and does not race through levels very quickly. First they have to get used to the rules and get an understanding what their characters abilities can do.
While you can make an aberration campaign that starts at 1st level, it will really be quite some time until the group can face an actual mind flayer or aboleth without being eaten in the first three rounds.

[Lord Vampyre]

It is always best to start new players off slowly. Starting off with the 1st 3 core books is advised, since this gives the new players less to focus on. When new players see a large stack of books, which is often the case with a 3.5 game, they can become intimidated. It's not too different from starting a new year of english and the teacher says by the way here are the 20 to 30 books we will be reading over the next year.

On another note, it is always best to start a new player off in a genre they are comfortable with. Not everyone is comfortable with the horror aspects of gaming. If they are interested in it, whether because they love horror movies or whatever, then it shouldn't be a problem.

Now for my final point. The last thing you need to be careful of, is killing a newbie's character too often will often frustrate them, especially if they have a hard time coming up with new concepts all the time.

[Darklord Xavez]

NO.

roleplay anti-heros or evil theme chars is not for newis, specially those with hard mechanics for learn, exploit and use.

Wait. What?

First: type legibly please.

Second: I think you don't understand what I'm saying. I am going to be running a campaign with a darker flavor to it, where some of the time, the players won't really understand what they're up against, which I think works best if you are using monsters the players are unfamiliar with.

Most new players can very well handle about any kind of campaign. It's very unliekly that anyone freaks out.

However, new players should always start with a campaign that starts at first level and does not race through levels very quickly. First they have to get used to the rules and get an understanding what their characters abilities can do.
While you can make an aberration campaign that starts at 1st level, it will really be quite some time until the group can face an actual mind flayer or aboleth without being eaten in the first three rounds.

I guess you're right here. I think that I will start off the campaign the way you suggested. Thanks!

It is always best to start new players off slowly. Starting off with the 1st 3 core books is advised, since this gives the new players less to focus on. When new players see a large stack of books, which is often the case with a 3.5 game, they can become intimidated. It's not too different from starting a new year of english and the teacher says by the way here are the 20 to 30 books we will be reading over the next year.

On another note, it is always best to start a new player off in a genre they are comfortable with. Not everyone is comfortable with the horror aspects of gaming. If they are interested in it, whether because they love horror movies or whatever, then it shouldn't be a problem.

Now for my final point. The last thing you need to be careful of, is killing a newbie's character too often will often frustrate them, especially if they have a hard time coming up with new concepts all the time.

I will answer you in three parts:

1. I'm just going to use the core books for my campaign, maybe a few things out of MM2 (photocopied for one less book), and Lords of Madness (the book of aberrations!), but that would just be a reference.

2. Before I start the game (as in, before character generation), I am going to tell the prospective players what style the campaign is, so they will have some early warning.

3. I am starting off the characters on a 28-point buy (so they will be more able to handle any challenges) and am also not going to present anything with a good chance of killing one of them until about fourth level. I will also explain that they might lose a character along the way before the game begins.

Thank you all for your input,
Xavez
P.S. Wall of text strikes again!

[Umael]

Your question is too open. It isn't a matter of whether they are experienced players or not, but what kind of people you judge them to be in regards to the kind of game you hope to run.

Some people who have played for years aren't much fun to actually have in your game, while others who have never played can be a wealth of fun times.

So... how well do you know these people? What do they want?

If they are like most newbies, they will be curious, open-minded, and without preceptions - but they are still going to have preferences. Do they like Lord of the Rings? Babylon 5? Song of Ice and Fire?

Figure out if their tastes run to heroic to earthy, dark to light, serious to funny. Tailor the game to their tastes.

[Mystic Muse]

3. I am starting off the characters on a 28-point buy (so they will be more able to handle any challenges) and am also not going to present anything with a good chance of killing one of them until about fourth level. I will also explain that they might lose a character along the way before the game begins.

I suggest a higher pointbuy like 36 or 40. The players are new so they might need more points for their concepts to work. Plus, higher pointbuy will help the multiple ability dependant classes.

Unless you have houserules I'm unaware of that makes 28 pointbuy better than it normally is.

And, like other people in this thread have said, do what the players want.

[Lord Vampyre]

Honestly, 32 pts would be more than reasonable. It allows for 2-18 ability scores if they're willing to sacrifice everything else.

36 to 40 is a little high for a darker campaign, since it is expected that the characters are going to be somewhat outmatched.

[Mystic Muse]

Honestly, 32 pts would be more than reasonable. It allows for 2-18 ability scores if they're willing to sacrifice everything else.

Which works well for SAD classes.

36 to 40 is a little high for a darker campaign, since it is expected that the characters are going to be somewhat outmatched.

We're not sure he's even going to be running that. New players might want to be the big dang heroes.

[Aran Banks]

Don't give them PB. Give them all a set of stats ("Your stats are 18, 16, 14, 14, 10, and 8. Assign them wherever.") for simplicity.

Then give them a selection of rogue-level classes.

Put them at level 3, so that the characters have visible differences.

And make them fight groups of 3-4 dire rats, darkmantles, and other "dark and cavey" encounters to give the feel of adventuring in a forbidden place without emanating the whole SATAN vibe.

[Darklord Xavez]

Your question is too open. It isn't a matter of whether they are experienced players or not, but what kind of people you judge them to be in regards to the kind of game you hope to run.

Some people who have played for years aren't much fun to actually have in your game, while others who have never played can be a wealth of fun times.

So... how well do you know these people? What do they want?

If they are like most newbies, they will be curious, open-minded, and without preceptions - but they are still going to have preferences. Do they like Lord of the Rings? Babylon 5? Song of Ice and Fire?

Figure out if their tastes run to heroic to earthy, dark to light, serious to funny. Tailor the game to their tastes.

I'm not sure if I'm being entirely clear here, so let me reiterate. I am running a game (i have already described what it will be like), and am wondering if I should include new players and how.

I suggest a higher pointbuy like 36 or 40. The players are new so they might need more points for their concepts to work. Plus, higher pointbuy will help the multiple ability dependant classes.

Unless you have houserules I'm unaware of that makes 28 pointbuy better than it normally is.

And, like other people in this thread have said, do what the players want.

36-40 is insane. Unless you have all scores start at 3 and the players go from there.

Don't give them PB. Give them all a set of stats ("Your stats are 18, 16, 14, 14, 10, and 8. Assign them wherever.") for simplicity.

Then give them a selection of rogue-level classes.

Put them at level 3, so that the characters have visible differences.

And make them fight groups of 3-4 dire rats, darkmantles, and other "dark and cavey" encounters to give the feel of adventuring in a forbidden place without emanating the whole SATAN vibe.

I guess that is probably the best way to do it. Maybe I'll give them the elite array and give them 6 more points to put into ability scores (maybe 8?), and not do anything to "SATAN"-ish.
-Xavez

[Mystic Muse]

36-40 is insane. Unless you have all scores start at 3 and the players go from there.

Depends on your point of view. 36-40 might be insane to you but to me it's perfectly reasonable. In fact, for my in person campaign it'd be downright weak due to the stats my players have.

[Umael]

I'm not sure if I'm being entirely clear here, so let me reiterate. I am running a game (i have already described what it will be like), and am wondering if I should include new players and how.

The trouble is your questions are too open.

I understand the kind of game you are running, but you are just asking if you should get new players, when it is not whether they are new players or experience players but what kind of players you think they will be.

Do you have a valid reason to be concerned that your game might be too difficult for someone new to gaming to understand? Yes, you do. Could your game be too dark for a newbie? That is a definite possibility.

The only way to know for sure is to met these people (while at school), start up a friendly conversation, and compare notes. I mentioned things like Lord of the Rings and Babylon 5 because these popular culture references will help determine if they might be interested in learning how to play role-playing games (and what kind of game).

You seem pretty set on playing a horrific-themed game, which is cool, but be open-minded to what your new players might want. Even a game with a dark tone to it can be surprisingly funny, sad, cheerful, motivating, etc. in places (think Buffy the Vampire Slayer).

If you want to include someone, make sure everyone who is already in the group thinks it is a good idea. A good fit comes from everyone liking each other and everyone getting a chance to play a game they want to play. Let them subtly modify your game by including things they want in a game.

Is that advice a little better for you?

[Ormagoden]

Don't give them PB. Give them all a set of stats ("Your stats are 18, 16, 14, 14, 10, and 8. Assign them wherever.") for simplicity.

Then give them a selection of rogue-level classes.

Put them at level 3, so that the characters have visible differences.

And make them fight groups of 3-4 dire rats, darkmantles, and other "dark and cavey" encounters to give the feel of adventuring in a forbidden place without emanating the whole SATAN vibe.

+ this Point buy is too complicated.

You might want to consider a standard campaign setting and pregens for their first characters. Find out what they like and pass them a ready made sheet. Later on after the interested players stay and the flaky ones leave start your dark story campaign.

But then again you might want to shake it up! You'll have better idea once you sit down with the players. Since alot of the players will be new and young you'll have to capture their interest quickly and maintain a steady influx of fun/drama.

[Darklord Xavez]

The trouble is your questions are too open.

I understand the kind of game you are running, but you are just asking if you should get new players, when it is not whether they are new players or experience players but what kind of players you think they will be.

Do you have a valid reason to be concerned that your game might be too difficult for someone new to gaming to understand? Yes, you do. Could your game be too dark for a newbie? That is a definite possibility.

The only way to know for sure is to met these people (while at school), start up a friendly conversation, and compare notes. I mentioned things like Lord of the Rings and Babylon 5 because these popular culture references will help determine if they might be interested in learning how to play role-playing games (and what kind of game).

You seem pretty set on playing a horrific-themed game, which is cool, but be open-minded to what your new players might want. Even a game with a dark tone to it can be surprisingly funny, sad, cheerful, motivating, etc. in places (think Buffy the Vampire Slayer).

If you want to include someone, make sure everyone who is already in the group thinks it is a good idea. A good fit comes from everyone liking each other and everyone getting a chance to play a game they want to play. Let them subtly modify your game by including things they want in a game.

Is that advice a little better for you?

Yes. I think I had not been clear enough. I was thinking whether or not involving first-time players in a horror-themed game would scare them off or not, and if not, how to do it.
-Xavez

[Umael]

Yes. I think I had not been clear enough. I was thinking whether or not involving first-time players in a horror-themed game would scare them off or not, and if not, how to do it.
-Xavez

...how to scare them off if you don't manage it the first time???

( I'm teasing. )

I think your best bet to get them interested without scaring them off is to know their interests. Methinks someone who ate lasagna while watching The Texas Chainsaw Massacre isn't going to be scared off by a few illithids.

If they have interests that are dark enough, refer to those interests. "It's like Babylon V, with the Shadows and Earth being controlled by the PsiCorp, only more swords and sorcery than capital ships and telepaths."

If they don't have the right interests to jump in or assimiliate, just be calm and up-front with them. "It's like Lord of the Rings, but darker. Aragorn would probably die, so don't think your character is going to come back as the king of Gondor. So, if your character dies, you going to be cool with it?"