[3.5] Druid 5 - Gear?

[Kerrin]

Hi everyone,

I've read these forums for some time now and enjoy the friendly atmosphere. Thanks for making me want to join the community.

I have to start off with asking for a bit of advice on what gear to buy for a character I'm making - and I'll admit I'm fairly new to the 3.5 system.

Game: D&D 3.5
Class: Druid
Level: 5
Money: 9,000gp
Books: PHB, DMG, Magic Item Compendium

I have everything else figured out to the best of my knowledge so far but figuring out what gear to purchase is a bit daunting. I've seen many things suggested here and elsewhere (e.g Monk's Belt with Wilding Clasp) but those kinds of items are way outside a starting 5th-level druid's budget of 9,000gp.

What should the priorities be for a Druid 5? Seems like he won't yet have enough wild shaping or items usable in wild shape form to not get creamed due to low AC, so at this level is he in a summon-and-hide-at-the-back mode?

I guess I'm a little gunshy regarding AC due to my first and only previous 3.5 character (a Fighter 4) getting hit a lot even with an AC 18. Maybe I shouldn't be so worried about that with this character.

Any gear pointers are greatly appreciated!

[Kaww]

I'm sorry, but what is your primary roll?
Fighter, Caster, Healer, Ranged, Scout, Skillmonkey?
Most items are situational at best, as is everything in D&D...

[Kerrin]

Good point! I should have stated that.

The party has all the primary roles covered so my druid is mostly a backup in several areas. To prioritize:

(1) Backup fighter to plug any gaps on the front line via wild shape, summoning, and animal companion.

(2) Backup healer via healing spells.

(3) Backup scout via wild shape and appropriate skills.

Definitely not a caster blasting out direct damage, and very little if any ranged action.

[Kaww]

You will have to chose which one of those you want to be most of the time. If you are a secondary healer Which feats have you chosen? This is the best way to determine character's primary and secondary function in the team.

(1) Plug via summons

(2) You can heal using both items and spells

(3) Spider hand is all you will need for scouting (plus high spot & listen, which I'm sure you have)

[tiercel]

You're right that though you get Wild Shape at Druid 5, in a sense you don't "really" get it until Druid 6. At that level you get Natural Spell as your feat (like every other druid, everywhere, that isn't using the PHB II shapeshifting variant or just in a houseruled campaign where the feat is banned) so you can cast while wildshaped, plus you can go into form 2/day for 6 hours each time, which basically means you can spend all day as an animal.

As for AC, a simple and direct way to deal with this issue in animal form is through spells. Barkskin enhances your natural armor bonus by +3 for an hour at 6th level, and more to the point if you have a wizard/sorcerer buddy in the group you can get them to cast mage armor on you for a +4 armor bonus that lasts 6 hours then. (If they whine about losing a spell slot on your behalf, it might be worth buying a pearl of power I and just giving it to them.) If you choose Deinonychus (dinosaur) form (which is Core -- if you have more Monster Manuals obviously you may have more choices) you are already AC 21 with only mage armor running, 24 when barkskin is running, without any equipment at all.

Also given Wild Shape's duration, you don't necessarily want to be thinking of it as an action you will be taking in combat -- think of it as a long-duration buff (especially once you've hit 6th level). If you actually change shape well before any combat, then presumably at least some equipment you just take off before changing shape, then put back on (with the help of a party member, if necessary) once you're changed. You'll want to check with your DM about what magic item slots will be accessible in a given form, but in Deinonychus form it wouldn't seem crazy to still have at least a head slot, eye slot, neck slot, belt slot, bracer slot, and ring slots.

That gives you some focus for your shopping list. Classic choices would then include a periapt of wisdom +2 (4,000 gp), eyes of the eagle (2,500 gp), ring of protection +1 (2,000 gp), if available as a houserule a ring of resistance +1 (as the cloak) (1,000 gp), not to mention a healing wand (lesser vigor if you have access to that spell via Complete Divine/Spell Compendium, cure light wounds if you don't) (750gp), even a healing belt (MIC, 750gp).

[Also don't forget to have continual flame cast on something you can just have tied around your head/arm/piece of equipment you're already wearing, so you have a hands-free light source.]

The MIC gives you a lot of low-cost choices, organized by available slot in the index, if you know there's a specific role you want to be playing a lot then you can choose a 1/day or 3/day ability item to suit your desires; I've just listed some generically useful choices that you should be able to likely use even wildshaped as long as you take them off first.

[Kaww]

Also Anklet of translocation (MIC 71) is a life saver no matter which is your party roll.
You can compensate for just about anything using spells...
Also, check this out http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...35418#msg35418

[Gavinfoxx]

Okay, you probably want one Wilding Clasp (4000 gp), and one other magical item for it to go with.

I would consider a belt that functions as a Masterwork Potion Belt (thats not in your books, they are in some FR books, but just ask for a belt that has a few slots for potion sized vials, where removing them is a swift action), maybe look like a mundane version of the Belt of Many Pockets, and a Belt of Healing, and a Belt of Ultimate Athleticism, all in one item. That should take up most of the rest of your money. With the rest, get a bunch of mundane stuff.

And as long as you wild shape into, say, an Ape or something, you can use tools and items that are in this belt! :)

[Kerrin]

(1) Plug via summons

Seems like your suggestion may be the way to fill this backup role. I already had the Spell Focus (conj) and Augment Summoning feats slotted in for my druid.

(2) You can heal using both items and spells

Good point.

(3) Spider hand is all you will need for scouting (plus high spot & listen, which I'm sure you have)

Yes, I did max out those skills.

Thank you!

[Kerrin]

As for AC, a simple and direct way to deal with this issue in animal form is through spells. Barkskin enhances your natural armor bonus by +3 for an hour at 6th level,
...
Also given Wild Shape's duration, you don't necessarily want to be thinking of it as an action you will be taking in combat -- think of it as a long-duration buff (especially once you've hit 6th level).

I really need to spend some time examining the druid spell list and figure out how to combine them with things druids can do / have. Thanks for the pointers to think differently.

That gives you some focus for your shopping list.

Thank you for the item suggestions. That healing belt looks almost too good to be true.

[Kerrin]

Also Anklet of translocation (MIC 71) is a life saver
...
Also, check this out http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...35418#msg35418

I'll definitely check out the item and the link!

[Gavinfoxx]

Remember, with the healing belt, you should get a single wilding clasp, and a CUSTOMIZED belt with more than one ability, so that you can use the belt even when wildshaped! Look at the options I mentioned...

[Cieyrin]

if available as a houserule a ring of resistance +1 (as the cloak) (1,000 gp)

What? Vest of Resistance +1 does the trick just fine, plus you're a dino in a vest. That's just snazzy!

[Kerrin]

Okay, you probably want one Wilding Clasp (4000 gp), and one other magical item for it to go with.

I would consider a belt that functions as a Masterwork Potion Belt (thats not in your books, but just ask for a belt that has a few slots for potion sized vials, where removing them is a swift action), maybe look like a mundane version of the Belt of Many Pockets, and a Belt of Healing, and a Belt of Ultimate Athleticism, all in one item. That should take up most of the rest of your money. With the rest, get a bunch of mundane stuff.

And as long as you wild shape into, say, an Ape or something, you can use tools and items that are in this belt! :)

Woah, that's a seriously outside-the-box line of thinking! (at least to me).

Not sure I'd be allowed to combine that many functions into one belt, and spending almost all the money on just two items may not go over well - but I'll mull it over and possibly ask the DM.

[Gavinfoxx]

A good CHEAP item is, with a Wilding Clasp attached, a Cloak of Elemental Protection. Plus, that item can have a Resistance Bonus to AC and a Deflection Bonus to Saves added to it cheaply, per that chart in MIC. It's a good, solid defensive item, that does many things cheaply, and is a good choice for adding that Wilding Clasp. It might be out of your price range of the 5000 gp.

[Gavinfoxx]

Woah, that's a seriously outside-the-box line of thinking! (at least to me).

Not sure I'd be allowed to combine that many functions into one belt, and spending almost all the money on just two items may not go over well - but I'll mull it over and possibly ask the DM.

Well you are a DRUID who, at level 8, will likely be wild shaped 24/7 in a potential combat or ambush situation!

You need as few, combined magic items as possible! And there are rules in the DMG and MIC regarding combining magic items -- it is just expensive, and if you are doing it, it's very wise to combine items in the order of "get the most expensive part first, and then the cheap parts". MIC has a list of abilities that ignore that restriction, and the cloak alternative I mentioned makes solid use of those alternatives. Remember, each body slot NEEDS that wilding clasp, which is 4000 gp! Combine wherever possible, and use that chart as much as you can! For example, by the book, the cloak I mentioned is CHEAP (no 1.5 price), but by the book, the belt is more expensive than it would look(one of the two enchantments has to be 1.5 price).

[Kerrin]

Thank you, everyone. You've given me some good things to consider.

Seems like the biggest constraint on really optimizing my druid's gear at this level (5) is the starting money - 9,000gp.

I'll definitely use some of the ideas from this discussion and carry forward some as my druid gains some more monetary resources over te next few levels.

[bokodasu]

What are the rules on a wilding clasp when you're changing size?

[Cieyrin]

What are the rules on a wilding clasp when you're changing size?

If by changing size you're doing it while wildshaped, it changes to fit you, so when you wild shape from halfling into Cachalot Whale, you don't choke yourself from the many sizes too small Periapt of Wisdom.

[Gavinfoxx]

So I personally would like to hear what you decided on! :) :)

[Kerrin]

I decided to go the suggested Cloak route. For starting at Druid 5 that seems to make good sense.

+ 9,000gp Starting Money
- 1,000gp Cloak of Elemental Protection
- 2,000gp   +1 AC Deflection
- 1,000gp   +1 Save Resistance
- 4,000gp   Wilding Clasp
-   750gp Healing Belt
-   115gp Basic Gear + Everburning Torch
-    91gp Horse + Tack
-    17gp Leather Armor + Heavy Wooden Shield
-     2gp Quarterstaff + Sling + 20 Bullets
---------
     25gp Left
      
Human Form AC = 15 (10 + 0 dex + 2 leather + 2 shield + 1 cloak)
Wild Shape AC = ?? (Shape's AC + 1 cloak)

Plus, I can cast Barkskin for another +2 AC on natural armor

The reason I bought the Horse and Tack is because at 5th level my druid can only wildshape once per day for 5 hours, which would be limiting to the traveling capability of the party. A couple more levels on and I can probably ditch the Horse and Tack.

The plan for combat is a combination of summoning and wild shaping and use of druid's animal companion (mountain lion aka leopard). Healing would be accomplished after combat is over -- or, if there's time, before going wild shape my druid can give the Healing Belt to another character for use until he returns to Human form since the belt doesn't require being worn for 24 hours to be usable.

At later levels it'd be nifty to add a Monk's Belt capability to the Healing Belt and slap a Wilding Clasp on it. And, to get some armor with the Wilding ability on it. Plus, ... yeah going up in levels and wealth opens up so many possibilities!

[Gavinfoxx]

Later in the game, why not slap a wilding clasp on your armor?

Also, look at the wooden breastplate options... and look at using a Wilding Clasp with the breastplate itself rather than a Wild plate.

Ironwood, Bronzewood, Duskwood, Bluewood, etc.

[Kerrin]

If by changing size you're doing it while wildshaped, it changes to fit you, so when you wild shape from halfling into Cachalot Whale, you don't choke yourself from the many sizes too small Periapt of Wisdom.

I'm looking for the rule that says items with a Wilding Clasp change size categories when a druid wild shapes. For example, a human (medium) wild shaping into a brown bear (large). With a Wilding Clasp the item still has to be wearable by the new form - I think. Maybe? Maybe I'm wrong?

Can you point it out because I'm not finding it. Thanks!

[Kerrin]

Later in the game, why not slap a wilding clasp on your armor?

With the Wilding Clasp, doesn't the item have to be wearable by the new form (e.g. bear)? How would a bear wear a set of humanoid armor?

I'm thinking that's the point of the Wild armor special property - to allow the native form of the armor (e.g. humanoid) to automagically fit the wild shape form (e.g. bear). I'm assuming that's why the Wild armor special property is way more expensive than a Wilding Clasp (which doesn't transform the item in any way, it just lets the druid in their wild shape form wear/use it if possible in that form).

Maybe I'm really mistaken on this - I *am* really new to the 3.5 system!

[Gavinfoxx]

Why wouldn't a Wilding Clasp work on armor? Reread the description!

[Eldariel]

I'm looking for the rule that says items with a Wilding Clasp change size categories when a druid wild shapes. For example, a human (medium) wild shaping into a brown bear (large). With a Wilding Clasp the item still has to be wearable by the new form - I think. Maybe? Maybe I'm wrong?

Can you point it out because I'm not finding it. Thanks!

It's actually a property of Wildshape. Wildshape works like Alternate Form (don't bother reviewing PHB, this has been errata'd so many times it might as well be a blank spot there); Alternate Form resizes all items the new form could wear.

Wildshape normally makes this a non-issue by melding all worn items but Wilding Clasp creates an exception in that and as Wildshape doesn't cover item resizing with size changes, you default to Alternate Form's "If the creature changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its new form changes size to match the new size." And animal (and most creatures; some Aberrations are exceptions; they aren't called Aberrations for nothing) forms basically have the same "magic item slots" as humanoids so you're fine in that regard. Do note tho: "(Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures can’t wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and vice versa.)" This isn't really a problem though since your AC comes from Monk's Belt (+ Wilding Clasp) or Wild Dragonhide Fullplate (note that Wild armor doesn't do anything but grant you Armor-bonus in Wildshape so you sidestep armor check penalties, max dex and such) + Animated Heavy Wooden Shield later on anyways.

[Vangor]

Why wouldn't a Wilding Clasp work on armor? Reread the description!

Armor likely could not "reasonably be worn by the new form". About everything else other than helms could.

I'm looking for the rule that says items with a Wilding Clasp change size categories when a druid wild shapes. For example, a human (medium) wild shaping into a brown bear (large). With a Wilding Clasp the item still has to be wearable by the new form - I think. Maybe? Maybe I'm wrong

In most cases, the items you come across fit you and party members regardless of size. Does not matter if you stole the necklace off the Mountain Giant, you have a necklace you can wear. Only time this differs is armor and weapons except for specific instances:

When an article of magic clothing or jewelry is discovered, most of the time size shouldn’t be an issue. Many magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or they adjust themselves magically to the wearer. Size should not keep characters of various kinds from using magic items.

[Kerrin]

It's actually a property of Wildshape. Wildshape works like Alternate Form (don't bother reviewing PHB, this has been errata'd so many times it might as well be a blank spot there); Alternate Form resizes all items the new form could wear.

...

Thank you for the detailed explanation and useful links! I totally missed following Wild Shape all the way back through Polymorph and Alter.

I only have the PHB, DMG, MM, MIC - never seen any errata - so thank you, again.

[Kerrin]

In most cases, the items you come across fit you and party members regardless of size. Does not matter if you stole the necklace off the Mountain Giant, you have a necklace you can wear. Only time this differs is armor and weapons except for specific instances:

Oh, okay. This bit of suspension of disbelief does make things run more smoothly.

Does seem weird when the game rules make such a big deal about size category all over the place then totally ignore/suspend it in places like this.

Thanks!

[Eldariel]

Thank you for the detailed explanation and useful links! I totally missed following Wild Shape all the way back through Polymorph and Alter.

The errata is available for free of charge on WoTC site. It's actually not Polymorph; it's based on Alternate Form, a creatures' ability similar to Polymorph but distinct in few key areas (notably, you don't switch your creature type when you use Alternate Form so you're still Humanoid even tho in Animal-form). It used to be based on Polymorph but errata rewrote those two lines of abilities entirely (note that Alter Self is distinct from Alternate Form; Alternate Form is used by creatures like Imps to assume looks of another creature, while Alter Self-line is spells - it was actually created in errata to set apart Polymorph-line and Wildshape-line).

Oh, okay. This bit of suspension of disbelief does make things run more smoothly.

Does seem weird when the game rules make such a big deal about size category all over the place then totally ignore/suspend it in places like this.

Thanks!

It's not really that strange if you just think of magic items; being able to fit any wearer could simply be an inherent ability of being imbued with magic.

[Vangor]

Does seem weird when the game rules make such a big deal about size category all over the place then totally ignore/suspend it in places like this.

Eh, size categories elsewhere do offer different strategies and interactions such as using corridors to your advantage or needing to avoid the reach of an enemy whereas a size category on magical gear just means there will be times where your party cannot use the items found either on the enemy or in a stash. Ignoring the size problems of equipment in general, to me, makes far more sense than doing this to essentially screw people out of rightfully earned gear.