[D&D] A City Surrounded by Darkness - what do the citizens do?

[Kensen]

Imagine a city surrounded by perpetual darkness. There's no morning, day, or evening, just an endless night. The Church - the only legal religious organization in the city - upholds law and order in the city, and they have also monopolized the production of food and magical lighting. Any spellcasters that are not members of the Church are hunted down, tried, found guilty of witchcraft and executed. Military grade weapons are also controlled. To obtain or use a sword, for example, you need a licence or your sword will be confiscated and you'll be arrested.

Long ago, the Church had a tall stone wall built around the city, so as to keep the darkness and any monsters outside (and to prevent any citizens from escaping but shhhh that's not the official truth). Paladins and city guards keep watch, making sure that no-one or nothing enters or exits the city.

It's an interesting setting for a campaign but then I started thinking about the citizens' daily life and verisimilitude. Without crops to tend to, trees to fell and other cities to trade with, life in the city must be dramatically different from "ordinary" D&D cities.

I suppose some people feed the government issued artificial food (=create food and water spell) to their pigs and cows to grow "real food", and people do some crafting with recycled materials, but that's not much since all resources are scarce.

So, the question is: What do you think the citizens do with their time in such a setting?

[DragonOfUndeath]

pray
eat
sleep
pray
research/ scholarly things
pray

[FelixG]

Probobly worship at the church, many would probobly become suicidal.

It is likely a good portion would be devoted to coming up with entertainment as they would not be able to rely on sources outside providing such things so they would be forced to provide for their own.

If not their boredom and strain would turn to depression then psychosis. Would not be a fun place that is for sure.

[JadedDM]

It is likely a good portion would be devoted to coming up with entertainment as they would not be able to rely on sources outside providing such things so they would be forced to provide for their own.

I agree. The villagers outnumber the clergy and paladins, I assume. They would likely revolt sooner or later without some kind of distraction such as entertainment or whatever.

[Brigham]

Probobly worship at the church, many would probobly become suicidal.

Not necessarily. Ethnocentrism is the enemy here. The people in this city are raised in the culture and would generally have a difficult time seeing anything wrong with life in the city.

First, I'll recommend some reading. "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" by Ursula LeGuin. It is a short story about a utopian society hinged on a dark reality, one which causes some citizens to leave of their own volition. It won't answer your question, but it will aide you in a broad sense. A general knowledge of Aristotle's regarding politics/social organization would help you, also. (I'll track down some links later).

It sounds as though everything is provided in this town. Food, protection, shelter, etc. A class system would likely develop with the Authority at the top, followed by the Enforcers (paladins, guards, etc), and then the laity (everyone else). You are capable of fleshing out the first two categories and how they affect town life. The laity would likely be a servant class (cooking, cleaning, metal-smithing). I don't know that currency as such would play a role in the setting you've described. Still, the luxury of provision allows for advancements.

This sounds like a highly cultured place, though authoritarian. People are free to pursue art (though the content might be regulated), philosophy, medicine. Society as a whole would be fairly advanced. An Eberron flair within a Greyhawk setting. While "backwards" in some ways, the town is rich with peculiar technology and technique.

I'll ponder this a bit more. A very fun idea.

[hewhosaysfish]

People are free to pursue art (though the content might be regulated)

That's just means there'll be a thriving black market. Well, not a market as such since the only real commodity people will be able to trade for illict goods/services is more, different illicit goods/services.

I agree. The villagers outnumber the clergy and paladins, I assume. They would likely revolt sooner or later without some kind of distraction such as entertainment or whatever.

Revolt? Against the people who magically food in a place where nothing grows? Only really feasible if there are clerics of an alternative god operating secretly in the city and the revolutionaries plan to replace the current authorities with this other religion.


So this City In Shadows has secret vice clubs and cabals of revolutionary cultists... or to put in another way, plot hooks, adventure seeds and campaign ideas

[Kensen]

Not necessarily. Ethnocentrism is the enemy here. The people in this city are raised in the culture and would generally have a difficult time seeing anything wrong with life in the city.

I think so too. The majority of the people are content with what they have because they have never heard of anything better. The Church gives them food, so they have no reason to believe that they have ulterior motives. The laws are very strict, but as the Church puts it: "The laws are there to protect you." To return the favor, the Church expects you to perform duties they assign to you (such as joining the city guard or fire brigade).

It sounds as though everything is provided in this town. Food, protection, shelter, etc. A class system would likely develop with the Authority at the top, followed by the Enforcers (paladins, guards, etc), and then the laity (everyone else).

Yep, each registered member of the Church that attends the daily mass get their daily ration of food. (The clerics cast spells and have magical items that create food.) Paladins do most of the field work (supervising the duties of the city guard, guarding religious sites and hunting criminals and witches), while the clerics generally take care of the more administrative duties.

The laity would likely be a servant class (cooking, cleaning, metal-smithing). I don't know that currency as such would play a role in the setting you've described. Still, the luxury of provision allows for advancements.

Trade is probably mostly commodity-based since raw materials are scarce in such an isolated community. If the city has no access to metal ore, all unused metal (including coins) would probably be recycled.

This sounds like a highly cultured place, though authoritarian. People are free to pursue art (though the content might be regulated), philosophy, medicine. Society as a whole would be fairly advanced. An Eberron flair within a Greyhawk setting. While "backwards" in some ways, the town is rich with peculiar technology and technique.

Yep, that might happen. Well-off people would have a lot of time in their hands, so they'd try to figure out ways of making something out of nothing, i.e. come up with more efficient processes for production and invent tools and gadgets that make up for the scarcity of resources. But I doubt that the society as a whole would be advanced.

I'll ponder this a bit more. A very fun idea.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

[W3bDragon]

It seems to me that food ration writs would naturally become currency. The church could make paper notes to the effect of: "The bearer of this writ is entitled to one ration of food and water." or some such.

Once some kind of currency start circulating, trade, illicit or otherwise, will naturally develop.

[Kensen]

That's just means there'll be a thriving black market. Well, not a market as such since the only real commodity people will be able to trade for illict goods/services is more, different illicit goods/services.

So this City In Shadows has secret vice clubs and cabals of revolutionary cultists... or to put in another way, plot hooks, adventure seeds and campaign ideas

A very active criminal underworld, I like that idea. I'm thinking there might be a literal Undercity, a network of conveniently spacious sewers and catacombs that some people use for passage, and some people even live there (criminals, "witches" and other people on the run.

And then there are the Seekers, a secret society that tries to uncover the past of the city that is for the most part shrouded in mystery (and propaganda). They also explore the Undercity and the dark world beyond the Wall.

W3bdragon: Food coupons as currency, I like that idea.

[Morph Bark]

Depends on how long this has been going on. If it has been that way since the dawn of man, everyone will likely have developed darkvision to a degree. Or low-light vision at the least.

A "day" might also be different from them and people will be more used to working in shifts, because there is no day-night cycle to screw them over anyway. Stores and the like might be open 24/7, just tended to by different people at different times, unless the church for some inexplicable reason decides to put out a curfew, but in that case it'd be best if there'd be a way to measure time. Like in Menzoberrenzan a wizard or priest would go to the center of the city to a stone pillar to imbue it with magic and the light would slowly go up and become brighter, before going down again, but that might give it a day-night cycle of sorts that you don't want.

[Psyx]

Heh. find out: http://echobazaar.failbettergames.com

Magic would have to provide food, and as all licensed magic comes from the church, they control the food, and hence the population.

I can see people growing mushroom and whatever as well.
Silk from silkworms in attics.

But no new metal or wood. I'm wondered what everyone is going to *do* with their time. I'd expect massive unemployment, as Rome suffered. With the proles entitled to nothing much other than food rationing.

To keep the populous happy you need a distraction. Violent sport is a classic for a reason.


I'd also take a look at SLA Industries, for a good (if sci-fi) idea about life in a monopolist urban sprawl with rife unemployment.

[Kensen]

Depends on how long this has been going on. If it has been that way since the dawn of man, everyone will likely have developed darkvision to a degree. Or low-light vision at the least.

It's been going on for at least 100 years. Maybe only a handful of people (old elves and dwarves to be more precise) can actually remember what happened, or maybe it's been too long for anyone to remember. The highest ranking members of the Church probably know the truth, but either they consider it better not to tell what really happened because people are mostly OK with their lives, or maybe the Church was involved in it somehow. There are many popular theories about it, or course.

A "day" might also be different from them and people will be more used to working in shifts, because there is no day-night cycle to screw them over anyway. Stores and the like might be open 24/7, just tended to by different people at different times, unless the church for some inexplicable reason decides to put out a curfew, but in that case it'd be best if there'd be a way to measure time. Like in Menzoberrenzan a wizard or priest would go to the center of the city to a stone pillar to imbue it with magic and the light would slowly go up and become brighter, before going down again, but that might give it a day-night cycle of sorts that you don't want.

Good point. Option 1: People work in shifts and have no concept of "day" and "night", or Option 2: The Church artificially maintains a day/night cycle by activating the magical lights when it's "daytime" and dismissing the spells when it's the "night".

Heh. find out: http://echobazaar.failbettergames.com

Magic would have to provide food, and as all licensed magic comes from the church, they control the food, and hence the population.

I can see people growing mushroom and whatever as well.
Silk from silkworms in attics.

Perhaps they've made mushrooms illegal so they can better control the population. But of course, some people don't care and they secretly eat them (and use them for recreational purposes...)

Real-world silk worms eat plants, and without sunlight there won't be any plant life, so there won't be any silk worms unless they can eat either mushrooms or the magically created gruel.

But no new metal or wood. I'm wondered what everyone is going to *do* with their time. I'd expect massive unemployment, as Rome suffered. With the proles entitled to nothing much other than food rationing.

To keep the populous happy you need a distraction. Violent sport is a classic for a reason.

I'd also take a look at SLA Industries, for a good (if sci-fi) idea about life in a monopolist urban sprawl with rife unemployment.

Yep, no new metal or wood. Metal can be recycled, but the lack of wood is going to be a problem... Of course, if the people feed pigs and other animals with the magically created food, they get bone and other materials for crafting. Bone can be used to make tool handles and such.

The Daylight spell, of course, can be used to grow plants. Maybe they have a greenhouse, a kind of "Noah's Ark" for plants.

I was thinking about blood sports, too, but maybe it'd make more sense if it was more of a Fight Club type of thing than a church-sponsored event.

[Umael]

I apologize if this has been answered already, but I am curious about the nature of this darkness. Is this darkness such like one of the great underground cities of the Underdark? Is this darkness because the city is above ground, but enclosed, like a giant arena dome? Is this city in darkness because of magic, and if so, is this darkness considered "normal" (i.e., you can see just fine with a torch (well, 20' radius), or is this darkness more resistant (i.e., you need magic light to push it aside)? How high does this darkness go - if the darkness was something similar to being underwater, than it would get lighter further up?

I have more, but how this darkness functions is the primary one on my mind.

[Seracain]

Another point to consider, magic is creating new food and water, but where is the trash, remains and other non-desirables going? Without a method of removal, the build up would grow too large.

[Kensen]

I apologize if this has been answered already, but I am curious about the nature of this darkness. Is this darkness such like one of the great underground cities of the Underdark? Is this darkness because the city is above ground, but enclosed, like a giant arena dome? Is this city in darkness because of magic, and if so, is this darkness considered "normal" (i.e., you can see just fine with a torch (well, 20' radius), or is this darkness more resistant (i.e., you need magic light to push it aside)? How high does this darkness go - if the darkness was something similar to being underwater, than it would get lighter further up?

I have more, but how this darkness functions is the primary one on my mind.

Good question, and no, it hasn't been answered already. It's a "natural" darkness, an absence of light. Maybe it's a demiplane where there is no sun or equivalent light source, or maybe the sun just didn't rise one morning. (The planet's rotation changed to synchronous with the sun, leaving the city in an area where it's always dark.) There are no significant changes in temperature. It's always around 15-20 degrees Celcius, or 60-70 degrees Fahrenheit.

Torches and light spells function normally, just as they would in a lightless dungeon or at night.

[Crow]

I'd bet a lot of people kill themselves. Seriously. I've heard of studies finding that people who live in areas of "gloomy" weather are more likely to commit suicide than those in "happy" climates.

Perpetual dark...Pretty gloomy.

[Umael]

Good question, and no, it hasn't been answered already. It's a "natural" darkness, an absence of light. Maybe it's a demiplane where there is no sun or equivalent light source, or maybe the sun just didn't rise one morning. (The planet's rotation changed to synchronous with the sun, leaving the city in an area where it's always dark.) There are no significant changes in temperature. It's always around 15-20 degrees Celcius, or 60-70 degrees Fahrenheit.

Torches and light spells function normally, just as they would in a lightless dungeon or at night.

*nod*

Thank you for answering that. I hope you don't mind if I have a few more questions because of your answers.

Given that both the stars and the moon can provide some (meager) source of light, I take it that neither of their illumination touch the city. Clouds can block light from the stars and the moon, but a number of cities are detected at night from over the horizon by the glow of the lights from the city. Thus, I take it that there is neither star nor moon nor cloud overhead.

Of course, without cloud, you do not have rain, which means water is going to be an issue, but that's for later.

Pardon me for going back, but you did not answer how the darkness demarcates from the light. Is there a definite zone between the light and the dark, or is it gradual lightening (such as with underwater lighting)? As a demiplane (if that is your concept), is the demiplane defined in three-dimensions (i.e., it is just as dark where the air is thinner than a bird can fly as it is on the ground), or is there a zone (or a transition)?

If you wanted to think of the darkness like water, that would make the city walls like the sides of a tank - does that mean the darkness can "spill over"? Will a hole in the wall breach the dyke? Or will it work the other way, where a hole in the wall will cause sunlight to flood into the city?

(I would advise against having the planet's rotation be in synch (i.e., tidally locked) with the sun. That creates a lot of problems, as well as not addressing the issue of moonlight and starlight.)

The temperature being constant is important too, but for now, the way the light works is the only thing right now.

[Sallera]

Another point to consider, magic is creating new food and water, but where is the trash, remains and other non-desirables going? Without a method of removal, the build up would grow too large.

S'what gelatinous cubes and the like are for. That's the ooze's ecological niche, after all, and you can just use the classic method of keeping them in smooth-walled pits.

I don't know that the suicide rates would be much higher than normal after a generation or two. If it's all you've ever known, there wouldn't be too many psychological effects, and I presume magically created food provides all the necessary nutrition; if it didn't, the society'd have collapsed from malnutrition decades ago.

I can see there being a lot of desire to explore the dark among the younger members of the population. Desire for the unknown, and all. Paladins constantly repairing the walls, collapsing tunnels that have been dug underneath...

[fusilier]

What about fuel? How do people keep warm or cook meals (when not magically prepared)? The destruction of wooden buildings and furniture, would only last so long. Tools wear out too, and without raw materials to replace them they will become increasingly scarce.

Basically it sounds like you are describing siege conditions -- and sieges don't need to last for over a hundred years for things to become desperate. I see a gradual breakdown of trade. As tools and raw materials become increasingly rare the ability of craftsmen to produce will drop. Life for the ordinary people will probably become one mainly of ensuring food rations, and making sure dwelling places don't collapse. Civic government may have a section that inspects buildings, and orders repairs, or orders them demolished if they are deemed unsafe (raw materials from a demolished building can be reused to build new ones).

It's not entirely clear to me what maintains the economy of a city, but complete isolation from the surrounding country will probably result in a total collapse of the city's economy.

[Zore]

The humans, at the very least, will be rather unhealthy overall both physically and mentally. They will be given to bouts of suicidal depression and malaise even with the best of entertainment and luxuries. They will generally die sooner and be sicker than people in the real world because much of the human body relies on ultraviolet radiation to function.

Based on this I would assume that most of the human populace has either died off or adapted in some way, possibly by magic. I would assume a large emphasis would be placed on community and staying around other people at all times as it would partially make up for the lack of sunlight. Most people would be loathe to go places alone, especially when young, and there would be enormous demand for healing magic and practices.

Finding a way to artificially emulate the sun would probably be a huge priority for those who remember it.

*Edit* Also, the psychological and physical effects of the absence of the sun would not disappear without thousands of intervening generations. People without sunlight have very negative physical reactions that no amount of being accustomed to will overcome.

[Tyndmyr]

Another point to consider, magic is creating new food and water, but where is the trash, remains and other non-desirables going? Without a method of removal, the build up would grow too large.

Throw it over the wall, solving the problem FOREVER.

Undesirable people? Well, the ultimate punishment...yup. Over the wall.

I really like this concept, evoking an imagine somewhere between Dark City and Aeon Flux. You start to wonder about the history of the place, and how it started.

Players could arrive via Ring Gate, say. So...one way out. Provided they know where the ring gate to get back is.

[ArcanistSupreme]

Perhaps they are like the people on the planet Cricket from the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series?

[Crow]

I would talk to your players a little before running this too.

To me, this seems very bleak, and not in a good way. Basically a giant dark prison cell with totalitarian guards, and pretty much just un-fun.

That's why I would check with your players and see if this is something they want to run.

[Skorj]

I would talk to your players a little before running this too.

To me, this seems very bleak, and not in a good way. Basically a giant dark prison cell with totalitarian guards, and pretty much just un-fun.

That's why I would check with your players and see if this is something they want to run.

It deosn't have to be quite so bleak - City of Ember is this as a children's movie. Plenty of adventure.

[Strawberries]

To me, this seems very bleak, and not in a good way. Basically a giant dark prison cell with totalitarian guards, and pretty much just un-fun.

And that is not awesome...why? I'll be very happy to play in a setting like that.

One thing I can see are arcanists being kept under a very tight leash. If I uderstood correctly, the power is church-based, which means that clerics are running the show. They would want to keep an eye on other sources of magic, so as to not have people threaten their role.

So, what do people do...burn rogue witches on the stake? After all, "bread and circuses" have alvays be used keep people happy.

[KillianHawkeye]

It deosn't have to be quite so bleak - City of Ember is this as a children's movie. Plenty of adventure.

I'm seconding watching City of Ember. Very similar themes: an isolated city struggles to keep itself lit and running in a very dark place. Just replace technology with magic. The main mode of entertainment is apparently singing.

[Kensen]

Thanks for the questions and comments! They really help me because they make me think about things that I otherwise wouldn't come to think about.

Umael: Whichever scenario I'll use, the zone of darkness will go on for miles in every direction, maybe hundreds of miles. There may be places where the sun shines, or maybe there are none (and the only way to get out is a Ring Gate as Tyndmyr suggested). No-one knows because I haven't decided yet. Anyway, it's not going to affect the daily lives of the citizens unless foolish brave heroes go out and explore.

How to get rid of trash and refuse: There are two possible uses for the feces: Fertilizer and fuel. That actually also answers some other questions. Who needs wood when you can burn poo! Sounds nasty but people do worse things to survive. The upper classes who are too good for that probably do what Tyndmyr suggested: throw it over the wall. Trash will be re-used or recycled. There are few things you cannot use, really.

Is the setting too bleak? Not everybody's cup of tea, that's for sure. I might run a short campaign in this settings here on GitP forums sometime in the future. I'll find the players who like it bleak. And it's not like there's nothing for adventurers to do. Join the Seekers!

ArcanistSupreme: What are the people of Cricket like? Forgive me my ignorance.

The psychological and physical effects of living in the dark and eating artificial food: First off, water won't be a problem. Whether it rains or not, clerics have Create Water as a 0-level spell. There's also a wondrous item that creates water.

The food isn't particularly tasty, but as the spell description puts it: it's "highly nourishing". The bigger problem is that they're going to need quite many 5th level clerics to support a large population. Maybe the poor people eat mushrooms and other things that grow in the dark, as someone suggested.

The lack of sunlight.. yes it is quite depressing. I live in an area of "gloomy" weather so I think I have an idea. People around here actually use light therapy as a treatment for seasonal affective disorder. So maybe the clerics illuminate their cathedral with Daylight spells every day, thus reinforcing the idea that they're the only hope the people have, a light in the dark.

I'm sorry I probably didn't answer all questions yet, but keep 'em coming.

[KillianHawkeye]

So maybe the clerics illuminate their cathedral with Daylight spells every day, thus reinforcing the idea that they're the only hope the people have, a light in the dark.

I really like this idea. Let's say the cathedral is right in the center of town. It's probably also the largest structure anywhere, so it should be visible from just about any part of the city. Thus, the church becomes the literal and figurative center of the people's lives!

[ArcanistSupreme]

ArcanistSupreme: What are the people of Cricket like? Forgive me my ignorance.

While the series itself is completely hilarious and pretty much the opposite of what you're trying to build here, a surprising amount could possibly be taken from that particular bit.

For thousands of years, the planet Cricket was surrounded by a dense nebula that completely prevented any view of the outside galaxy. No stars, no planets, nothing. The way they functioned is that they simply didn't notice this lack, as it was all that they had ever known. The sky has always been black, what of it? When the nebula disperses, however, and they are forced to accept a universe in which they are not alone, they decide they prefer the way things were. So they build an army of robots bent on eliminating every other form of life in the universe.

Aside from the whole extreme xenophobia thing and a slightly genocidal disposition, they are, on the whole, incredibly nice people.

Basically, I would think that they would be incredibly xenophobic as well. A stranger would probably stick out like a sore thumb, as everyone that lives there is probably a bit pale. And if they ever find ways to other worlds...

[shadow_archmagi]

1. Is the city expanding?
If they don't have wars, monsters, disease, or food shortage, then we should expect continous population growth. As more people are born, more clerics are born, and thus more food and light can be provided. The city expands in all directions.

Unless

A. They have china-style anti-overpopulation laws
B. Rebellion and crime takes a serious portion of their populace
C. MONSTERS EAT THEM

2. Is the city advancing?
If they have a single uniform government, and a system that requires virtually no labor to sustain (Cast create food. Hand it out. There's the day's work and it took an hour) then there's no reason why they shouldn't have well distributed research and an excellent academic system.