It's Alive! [3.5 Spell]

[Temotei]

Restore the Heart
Necromancy
Level: Clr 8
Components: V, S, M, DF
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Touch
Target: Touched undead creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes

You restore flowing blood and a living heart to one undead creature that is not destroyed. In doing so, the creature is restored to the state it was in before it became undead. After being restored, it has no memory of anything that happened while it was undead unless it was an intelligent undead.

Any creature subject to this spell has the same amount of hit points it had before the spell was cast when restored to life, and any spell slots it had used while undead are still used up until the creature next rests, as normal. The creature does not lose any levels (or Constitution points) from being brought back to life.

When restored to life, the subject regains any nonabilities it had while undead, including Constitution. Such abilities are 10 + original ability modifier immediately after being restored, and gradually work their way up to their original value, healing as if the ability had been dealt ability damage.

Upon completion of this spell, the subject regains all use of any abilities it had access to in life. However, if said abilities have daily use limits, they are all expended upon the creature's restoration. Rest, as usual, recovers these abilities, allowing the creature to once more use them.

Mindless undead may attempt to resist this spell's effect, but even if the creature is an ally, they are treated as an enemy for the purposes of this saving throw.

If the subject is a lich, the body becomes living, but comatose, until the soul is restored to the body. To restore them to a fully living state, their soul must be removed from the phylactery. The most common method of doing this is destroying said phylactery.

The target undead creature is vulnerable to this spell's effect, despite it requiring a Fortitude saving throw, though its Charisma modifier affects its saving throw.

Material Component
A sprinkle of holy water and diamonds worth at least 20,000 gp.

[Latronis]

1) expected something along the lines of construct becomes living thing.

Make one now. (or let it work on constructs too )

2) undead are going to be particularly vulnerable to having to make a fort save not having any constitution score, so it's effectively DC: LOL. (that alone isn't so bad but then every other fort save afterwards.....) Forcing all the vulnerabilities onto it without losing the weaknesses may make things a little too easy but that would be a playtest experiment.

Still destroyed at 0 hitpoints? dying at 0, death at -10? Should be clarified. Though i would assume destroyed at 0 since they dont actually lose the undead type.

3) perhaps a more permanent version to circumvent the whole death and ressurection thing to get undead back to living?

4) Make it necromancy. Conjuration (healing) besides being silly in general is a bit of a stretch for what amounts to a save (but you won't) or suck

[Temotei]

1) expected something along the lines of construct becomes living thing.

Make one now. (or let it work on constructs too )

I expected you to expect that.

Maybe I'll make it affect constructs, too. It might have to be on the Sor/Wiz list, then.

2) undead are going to be particularly vulnerable to having to make a fort save not having any constitution score, so it's effectively DC: LOL. (that alone isn't so bad but then every other fort save afterwards.....) Forcing all the vulnerabilities onto it without losing the weaknesses may make things a little too easy but that would be a playtest experiment.

Indeed. Do you think they should lose their weaknesses (and possibly the destruction at 0 hit points)? I don't think they should, really, since it's a 5th-level spell/4th-level spell (paladin), but...

Still destroyed at 0 hitpoints? dying at 0, death at -10? Should be clarified. Though i would assume destroyed at 0 since they dont actually lose the undead type.

Fixed.

3) perhaps a more permanent version to circumvent the whole death and ressurection thing to get undead back to living?

I'm confused. I'm probably just tired, but could you explain what you mean?

4) Make it necromancy. Conjuration (healing) besides being silly in general is a bit of a stretch for what amounts to a save (but you won't) or suck

I must have been feeling silly when I typed this. Fixed.

[Latronis]

I expected you to expect that.

Maybe I'll make it affect constructs, too. It might have to be on the Sor/Wiz list, then.

It might be a bit of a stretch being related to healing but wizards do have some undead manipulating tools anyway. So i wouldn't be completely against it being on the wiz list as is. If it does affect constructs should definately be. Though i wouldnt put it on the wiz list just cause. So perhaps a seperate wiz only version can affect constructs instead :P

Indeed. Do you think they should lose their weaknesses (and possibly the destruction at 0 hit points)? I don't think they should, really, since it's a 5th-level spell/4th-level spell (paladin), but...

Most of the vulnerabilities arn't a huge deal, i mean sure some of them really suck but not all of them are encounter winners. The fort saves could be a big deal though going from complete immunity to those affects to being incredibly vulnerable to save or dies is a pretty big thing. You know a 9th lv cleric could have a realistic chance of beating things like liches(poor fort saves at best 2 hd less than CR, no bonus from con and unlikely to have any feat\abilities based around them no SR\Magic Immunity from the lich template) above their CR in a straight up fights now.

Destruction at 0 isn't a huge drawback, anything you can get to 0 can be gotten to -10 just as easily anyway. It's more just a crutch for players. They lose healing via negative energy damage which only matters for spellcasting intelligent undead (or 'pets') anyway. Some undead have fast healing but generally you'll take away an undead's healing with this, but healing is of limited use midbattle so so what?

Most of the weaknesses are more about having specific anti-undead tools rather than having inherent weaknesses for your type.

So no I don't think they should lose any for it's level. Rather i'm unsure of the specific vulnerabilities to fort save affects without careful DM consideration of the repercussions of throw undead at the party with this available.

On the otherhand undead party members are all good for facing this (that's supposed to be an evil laugh >_>)

The only advantage they still keep i can think of (via being undead rather than specifics) is mind-affecting.

I'm confused. I'm probably just tired, but could you explain what you mean?

Well you can't raise someone from the dead who is well undead. Reading it just made me think maybe there should be a cleric spell that cuts out the middle man (going from animate corpse to actual corpse(or parts)) and just restore an undead creature to actual life. I mean the gods grant you powers over undead, powers to eradicate undead and powers to restore life to the dead, why not restoring undead to life?

I must have been feeling silly when I typed this. Fixed.

Could make an argument for it, i mean realistically the function of the spell is quite similiar to healing magic but it's obviously intended as an offensive spell.

[drack]

I would change the fort save to a will save, because undeads are immune to this spell seeing as it requires a fort save. (unless the spell is adapted to effect object too according to the SRD), but all in all I think the time limit balances it out, that fort save bugs me too, but I figure stronger undeads may have a fort save, and at the time of learning this spell one finds ones self confronting undead with the beginnings of a fort save.

[hamishspence]

Isn't there a spell like that already in either Libris Mortis or Spell Compendium, that removes an undead's major immunities?

[Temotei]

A major change has been made. The spell now works permanently, restoring undead to true life forever and removing their undead type. However, it's fairly useless in combat because of the casting time.

Thoughts?

[Latronis]

Thought process on making it 8th level?

I mean i probably would've arbitrarily put it around there too but it'd like to know :P

Thinking about it now though restoring undead back to real life is actually quite the rules headache. It'd probably need to remove templates, and clarify a return to the base creatures type and subtypes. The difficulty in using it mid combat is a shame especially since it now has a reasonable chance of making a fort save. But it does make sense.

[DracoDei]

I think keeping the old version around AS WELL would be good.

[Milskidasith]

Question: What if your ally is a mindless undead creature somehow? Do they try to make the save, or not?

Otherwise, I like this, though it's fairly pricey. Also, what happens to, say, a Lich's phylactery? Does it just become nonmagical? Does it have to be present (to put the soul back in the creature)? Does this work on deathless?

[imp_fireball]

Maybe the spell should slay liches since they don't have souls attached to their bodies? Or just remove the template and spontaneously create a new soul?

[Latronis]

If you can pull it off on a lich and the spell effectively removes undead templates and restores base creatures types and subtypes then it should probably function as if the now pre-lich had had a trap the soul cast on it (destroying the body) Soul remains trapped within the phylactery instead of a specific gem.

[imp_fireball]

If you can pull it off on a lich and the spell effectively removes undead templates and restores base creatures types and subtypes then it should probably function as if the now pre-lich had had a trap the soul cast on it (destroying the body) Soul remains trapped within the phylactery instead of a specific gem.

I like the 'create new soul' idea better. The character is still the same person, but they're no longer a lich. The soul is newly created (because the universe is adapting; as it always does anyway whenever magic occurs) and the old soul in the phylactery becomes savage and renegade or perhaps it just departs from the world with no apparent sentience to hover over.

[Latronis]

I like the 'create new soul' idea better. The character is still the same person, but they're no longer a lich. The soul is newly created (because the universe is adapting; as it always does anyway whenever magic occurs) and the old soul in the phylactery becomes savage and renegade or perhaps it just departs from the world with no apparent sentience to hover over.

If you wanted to restore a lich to humanoidom you could always rule that destroying the phylactery first returns its soul to its lich body at which point casting this spell would truly restore them to living breathing humanoidom

?

[Tetrasodium]

1) expected something along the lines of construct becomes living thing.

Make one now. (or let it work on constructs too )

The equivalent already exists for constructs :)

Spoiler

Show

HUMANOID ESSENCE
Transmutation
Level: Artificer 4, cleric 5
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
As lesser humanoid essence with the following additional effects. The construct becomes subject to critical hits, sneak attacks, nonlethal damage, stunning, ability damage, ability drain, death effects, and necromancy effects. In addition, a warforged affected by this spell loses its racial fortification against critical hits and sneak attacks (including any improvements to that fortification).
This spell counters and dispels lesser construct essence and construct essence. If this spell is cast on a creature under the effect of lesser construct essence, the latter spell is automatically ended. If this spell is cast on a creature under the effect of construct essence, both spells are dispelled and have no effect. It has no effect if cast on a creature under the effect of greater construct essence.
HUMANOID ESSENCE, GREATER
Transmutation
Level: Artificer 6, cleric 7
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
As lesser humanoid essence with the following additional effects. The target construct’s type changes to humanoid, and it loses the living construct subtype if it has it.
The target is now subject to critical hits, sneak attacks, nonlethaldamage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, energy drain, mind-affecting spells and abilities, poison, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects. It can also be affected by spells and effects thatonly affect humanoids, such as charm person.
In addition, a warforged affected by this spell loses its racial fortification against critical hits and sneak attacks (including any improvements to that fortification).
This spell counters and dispels greater construct essence, lesser construct essence and construct essence.
If this spell is cast on a creature under the effect of lesser construct essence or construct essence, the latter spell is automatically ended. If this spell is cast on a creature under the effect of greater construct essence, both spells are dispelled and have no effect.
HUMANOID ESSENCE, LESSER
Transmutation
Level: Artificer 3, cleric 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Construct touched
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
When this spell is cast upon a construct, it takes on more of the qualities of a living creature The construct gains the full benefit of spells from the healing subschool.
This spell counters and dispels lesser construct essence. If this spell is cast on a creature under the effect of lesser construct essence, both spells are dispelled and have no effect. It has no effect if cast on a creature under the effect of construct essence or greater construct essence.
-- Races of Eberron 186 & 187.

I'm not sure actually restoring the undead creature to life is a good idea, it's trivial and cheap (compared to raise dead/resurrection/true resurrection) to raise someone as an udead/greater? undead then just cast this and they are back to themselves? Plus there's the fact that the DM pretty much can't have an undead bbeg or the first encounter goes
BBEG: mwahhaha.
Arcane: *poof* your a human you dont get to use your aura (mummy, vampire?, etc) or any special abilities anymore!
BBEG: eeeeeeeeeeeeeee?!

Undead immunities are fairly similar to construct with a few more and less. I'd suggest changing the spell to be more like the humanoid essence spells, especially since one of the undead immunities is "Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless)."

[Temotei]

The target undead creature is vulnerable to this spell's effect, despite it requiring a Fortitude saving throw, though its Charisma modifier affects its saving throw.

I'm highlighting this just because it seems that a few people missed it. Yes, it's annoyingly cop-outish, but...eh.

Nitpick: Arcane magic users can't cast this spell. Only clerics can.

Also, it takes a long time to cast. I would hope you have a better method of beating the BBEG than spending ten rounds casting one spell, only for it to possibly be resisted. Even if you did do that, the villain would still have a bunch of its abilities from class levels and such.

Question: Do you need a soul to live in D&D, or can you be a soulless person?

I'm going to have to add something about nonabilities, too.

[Latronis]

I'm highlighting this just because it seems that a few people missed it. Yes, it's annoyingly cop-outish, but...eh.

Nitpick: Arcane magic users can't cast this spell. Only clerics can.

Also, it takes a long time to cast. I would hope you have a better method of beating the BBEG than spending ten rounds casting one spell, only for it to possibly be resisted. Even if you did do that, the villain would still have a bunch of its abilities from class levels and such.

Question: Do you need a soul to live in D&D, or can you be a soulless person?

I'm going to have to add something about nonabilities, too.

I would assume even undead have souls. Well liches we know do, but generally any references to souls mechanically generally clarifies what happens to the body, such as demiliches cosuming your over 24 hrs (body decays pretty much instantly) trap the soul generally storing your body aswell as soul. Soul Bind preventing any type of ressurection etc.

Pretty safe to assume soul is essential for existence

[Temotei]

I would assume even undead have souls. Well liches we know do, but generally any references to souls mechanically generally clarifies what happens to the body, such as demiliches cosuming your over 24 hrs (body decays pretty much instantly) trap the soul generally storing your body aswell as soul. Soul Bind preventing any type of ressurection etc.

Pretty safe to assume soul is essential for existence

So, assuming that, liches would have to have a soul attached to them to be brought back. Their phylactery would have to be near them, perhaps used as a focus or material component, or a new soul would be created, as imp_fireball suggested.

DracoDei: The old version was basically an accidental duplicate of an existent spell. This new version, however, doesn't exist, from what I can gather.

On the level: Eh, I kind of guessed. It's sort of like true resurrection, in a way, but situational, so I lowered the cost and level.

On mindless ally undead: They make a saving throw as if they are enemies (i.e. not harmless save). Of course, most mindless undead have junk for Charisma, anyway, so they'll most likely fail.

[BladeofOblivion]

Finally! A way to destroy the dreaded Ghost Tarrasque!

I hate that thing. If it gets thrown at us, we usually throw up our hands and shout "Can't you just say Rocks Fall?"

Although we did manage to resurrect it once. We only succeeded because the DM forgot that Daze only works on Medium-Sized humanoids.

[Latronis]

So, assuming that, liches would have to have a soul attached to them to be brought back. Their phylactery would have to be near them, perhaps used as a focus or material component, or a new soul would be created, as imp_fireball suggested.

DracoDei: The old version was basically an accidental duplicate of an existent spell. This new version, however, doesn't exist, from what I can gather.

On the level: Eh, I kind of guessed. It's sort of like true resurrection, in a way, but situational, so I lowered the cost and level.

On mindless ally undead: They make a saving throw as if they are enemies (i.e. not harmless save). Of course, most mindless undead have junk for Charisma, anyway, so they'll most likely fail.

well liches who are slain reform at their phylactery distance seem to make no matter none. I cant recall any specific mention of what happens if a liches phylactery is destroyed before said lich the books always seem to assume lich first than phylactery. So i would say it seems logical that a soul from a destroyed lich is still tethered to the lich who could then create a new soul-hidey place. I'd think using the spell on a lich w\ phylactery would restore it to a condition of life but without a soul its just a body. The phylactery acts as a sort of soul gem. So while the body is no longer undead its just a body until you can free the soul from the phylactery at which point it can be raised or rezzed as normal.

Otherwise if we assume a destroyed phylactery returns the soul to the lich then it would return it fully to life.

But that's just what i think seems the most logical turn of events around un-undeading liches.

[Temotei]

A paragraph about liches has been added.

[Krazddndfreek]

Aren't vampires soulless? Or did they take that out in D&D?

[137beth]

Great idea! Anyways, the saving throw line is a bit strange--"Fortitude negates or Fortitude negates (harmless)". What is the deal with 2 different specifications for a fortitude save? Normally that means there are multiple ways the spell can be applied, which could have different saves. But for this there only seems to be one function.

[Temotei]

Great idea! Anyways, the saving throw line is a bit strange--"Fortitude negates or Fortitude negates (harmless)". What is the deal with 2 different specifications for a fortitude save? Normally that means there are multiple ways the spell can be applied, which could have different saves. But for this there only seems to be one function.

It could be used against a hostile creature or a willing one, in which case it would be considered harmless. Actually, I'll just make it "Fortitude negates (harmless)," since the creature can still choose to make a saving throw, anyway, and it looks better.

[Milskidasith]

So if they are living without a soul, what are they? Comatose? Emotionless? Treated as if having X number of negative levels at all times?

I think it could still use a bit more explanation.

[Temotei]

So if they are living without a soul, what are they? Comatose? Emotionless? Treated as if having X number of negative levels at all times?

I think it could still use a bit more explanation.

Fixed. They're comatose.

[sigurd]

The idea is better and bigger than the standard spell system but I like it.

Especially if its permanent, I'd suggest you make it a magic ritual requiring at least 15th level and several hours. There should be the need to have a confab session with the DM to determine the actual details and costs based on the campaign and the nature of the undead involved. There should be a whack of time and preparation for something like this.


Sigurd

[Milskidasith]

The idea is better and bigger than the standard spell system.

I'd suggest you make it a magic ritual requiring at least 15th level and several hours and I like it. There should be the need to have a confab session with the DM to determine the details based on the campaign and the nature of the undead involved. There should be a whack of time and preparation for something like this.


Sigurd

Err... not really. If you just chop the undead's head off you can get by with a normal res, and even if they've become unrezzable, allowing a save and being very specific makes this worth a spell level lower than true res.

[137beth]

Agreed. In D&D, restoring life to the deceased is very easy.

[DracoDei]

I would have it cause level/constitution loss, it avoids a lot of problems. If that makes it lower level, that is fine.