Furry Trouble 3.5

[Bago!!!]

Hello ladies and gents,

I am currently in a pickle. I am trying to run a e6 game. Basically, level cap at level 6. The starting level in the game is first level and we've yet to have a session.

On to the reason of making this thread.

It turns out one of my players wants to be a werewolf. And to be honest, I'm not sure what to do. It's a level adjustment two race with two racial hit die last time I checked and I don't know what the effects are in the long run or how to go about this.

I'm not opposed to him playing a monsterous creature as long as it isn't broken but I'm not sure how to work with this. I'm trying to wrap my mind around the Savage species progression but I can't make heads or tails of it.

Should I tell him to go and try something else? Any help that forum goers can provide would be much appreciated.

G'day!

[Eldariel]

Well, the standard E6 means of handling LA is simply lower point buy. So give him something like 10 points lower pb than others, and just cut out the HD; it doesn't mesh well with E6. Then just think if all Werewolves are truly evil in your world, if he's an afflicted or a natural lycanthrope and what consequences it may bear. I could very well see a PC Werewolf especially since Werewolves are so harmless when they aren't turning into bloodthirsty monsters.

[Lapak]

I suppose you could use a monstrous progression of one sort or another. The SRD has it as LA + 3, by the by. Have him play whatever class he wants for his first level, then have him attacked by a werewolf. Levels 2 and 3: Racial hit dice. Level 4: Wolf form, scent, trip. Level 5: Hybrid form, wolf empathy, low-light vision. Level 6: DR, any other powers. There's probably a better structure out there than this, but that's the general idea.

EDIT: Eldariel's advice is almost certainly better.

[InkEyes]

If you want, you could have him follow the 3 level Savage Progression and drop the Hit Dice. He might be a bit powerful without the extra HD raising his ECL, but he's also lost three levels to lycanthropy, so he might be better off.

[Fax Celestis]

You could show him the Shapechange druid in PHB-II and call the shapechange lycanthropy. You could show him the Wildshape ranger from Unearthed Arcana, and then substitute PHB-II druid shapechange for the wildshape ranger's wild shape and animal companion (believe you me, I've played this: it is a good trade, and not broken). You could use the Shifter race from Eberron and call it lycanthropy. You could reskin a gnoll and call it a crinos-form hybrid form.

Don't get so hung up on using the lycanthrope template: there are many many options available, most of them available at low levels.

[Bago!!!]

Just to clarify, I am not worried he'll break the game on purpose. He's relatively new to D&D 3.5 and his experience was 4th Edition. I'm more worried that he or I will break it by accident. :D

@Eldariel and Inkeyes:
An interesting suggestions. I am affriad that he may be a bit powerful if I drop the Hit Die but it may not be the case.
My gripe with the savage species progression is I don't know what will happen when he reaches level six. If he's afflicted, then he'll miss out on two leves of one class and be stuck at level four, leaving him with fewer options.

Don't want to hamstring him upon reaching level six.

@Fax Celestis:
The ranger wildshape idea may work.
I said no to the shifter race from Eberron before but I may reconsider my stance.
For setting wise it didn't seem to fit but I could probably reword it as a lesser case of lycanthropey.

@Lapak
If I was to do anything with the lycan thrope template, this would be it, though it would be more like:
Level 1 (Normal)
Level 2 (Animal)
Level 3 (Werewolf stuff but no hit die)
Level 4 (Animal Hit Die)
Level 5 (Werewolf stuff)

But again, If I do this, will this hurt him in the later end of the game?

[Fouredged Sword]

I would stick the shapeshifer druid varient on a wildshape ranger Let him loose the same stuff and not get the bird form to maybe balance it a bit more. Now he can dip ranger and take levels in barbarian or something for a rageing wolf beast.

[The Glyphstone]

Thing is, animal hit dice suck really. If they're 2 of his possible three-four "levels", he'll be unbalanced in the wrong direction, towards "can't actually do anything worthwhile".

LA really doesn't work all that well in E6 normally, which is why it uses reduced point-buy instead. With LA +3 though on a race that doesn't actually give good stat modifiers, he'd also be in bad shape, so I think the Shifter is your best choice really.

[Eldariel]

But again, If I do this, will this hurt him in the later end of the game?

That's why I suggested "nix the HD, mitigate the LA in point buy". HD screws E6 character over big time and LA even worse if not mitigated. The HD isn't necessary balance-wise anyways, and he pays the LA with worse stats (since the LA is mostly 'cause of better stats) so it evens out.

The advantage this has over classed versions is that you can still be a Werewolf Wizard or Fighter instead of being forced into a class to realize your race.

[Another_Poet]

"nix the HD, mitigate the LA in point buy"

This is, in my opinion, the best solution. For three reasons.

1) It lets him play what he wants
2) It brings his power into line with the other PCs at his level with minimal fuss
3) It's already built into E6

I think you have a winner.

[Mystic Muse]

well, there's always homebrew. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142724

alphabetical list should be in the second post.

as a side not *steals the cult of the damned's donuts.* FOR SAURON!

[Project_Mayhem]

Why did you disallow the Eberron Shifter? It's not overpowered in any way.

[Crasical]

What aspects of werewolf was he interested in? If it's purely thematic, he can play a refluffed Dog Hengeyokai, which has a human, animal, and hybrid form. He won't be able to transfer lycanthropy with his attacks, doesn't have natural weapons in his hybrid form, and can only change a few times a day, but it still can be used to represent a werewolf. If he wants to rip things apart with his claws, then a different solution is order, though.

[Bago!!!]

Alot of replies! Working on it right now!

@Crasical
I think it's thematic but he may be itching to use some claws. As for the whole Dog Hengeyokai, I don't even know what that is though i presume it's from Oriental Adventures, correct?

@Project_Mayhem
It's not a matter of being broken. Far from it, I really enjoy eberron as a setting and like the shifter along with some of the other races in it. I just felt that it didn't fit into the setting I had set up for the players as is. If I do change my mind about it, I will have to rework it the fluff.

@Kyuubi
Will look into that.

On a side note:

It matters not Kyuubi!! YOU'VE ACCOMPLISHED NOTHING! FOR THE LICH KING!!
*Waves small scourge flag*

On another note, how have you been doing? ^_^

@Glyphstone & Another Poet
Point taken. Will need to reconsider my position on that then.

@Fouredged Sword
I don't think he wants to be a druid (and theres already a druid in the party). I'll suggest to him the ranger but I suggested to him earlier the Hexblade (cause it may be what he wants from what I know of him).

[Crasical]

Alot of replies! Working on it right now!

@Crasical
I think it's thematic but he may be itching to use some claws. As for the whole Dog Hengeyokai, I don't even know what that is though i presume it's from Oriental Adventures, correct?

It's one of the races from Oriental Adventures, yes. one of the Dragon Magazines changed the subtype to Humanoid (Shapeshifter), which removed some of it's immunities to charm effects and the like, so they bumped it down to a +0 LA race.

If he's planning on going a full-BAB route, he can qualify for Warshaper at level 4 and morph some claws, but that's really not in the spirit of the endeavor. Alternatively, if he's playing a sorcerer, he can look at getting some 'Dragon' heritage that you refluff as 'shifter heritage' and take Dragon (Shifter) Claw at 3.

I seem to have gotten off track to searching how to gain natural weapons, so I think I'l end this here.

[Bago!!!]

@Crasical
I unforunately don't have access to OA or dragon magazine but thanks for the idea nonetheless.

I am 75% sure he doesn't want to be a sorcerer so I don't have to worry about reflavoring a sorcerer's feat chain.

[Erom]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldariel
"nix the HD, mitigate the LA in point buy"

This is, in my opinion, the best solution. For three reasons.

1) It lets him play what he wants
2) It brings his power into line with the other PCs at his level with minimal fuss
3) It's already built into E6

I think you have a winner.

I really think the simplest solution is just to follow the existing E6 rules for this as noted above.

[Leon]

Let him play as a Shifter (Longtooth) that has a bit more control over his shifting (ie not limited by a duration in rounds)

[Gavinfoxx]

Does the player want to play furry characters in general?

Surely you can just go here:

http://community.wizards.com/go/thre...st_Version_2.0

And help him pick something off of the list? Shifter would work... there are a few 'werewolf type theme' character races there, and a few others that are otherwise furry in general, or able to be reflavored as furry, right?

[Bago!!!]

The player wants to play a lycan type character. I'll probably let him decide between the lycan hit die classes (having him get attacked later in the adventure) or the shifter (and basically it a mutation or something of a natural werewolf or what not).

I gotta say, I really like the Werewolf hit die class that Kyuubi suggested.

[Gavinfoxx]

Hengeyokai was a 3.0e LA+1 race from Oriental Adventures, which was updated to 3.5e and to be LA+0 in a Dragon Magazine article. Dog Hengeyokai, with the update, would work quite well, as would the wolf-type Shifter.

Stay away from racial hit dice and level adjustments! Really!

[Another_Poet]

I really think the simplest solution is just to follow the existing E6 rules for this as noted above.

Which is exactly what I suggested....

And Eldariel.

[Bago!!!]

Hengeyokai was a 3.0e LA+1 race from Oriental Adventures, which was updated to 3.5e and to be LA+0 in a Dragon Magazine article. Dog Hengeyokai, with the update, would work quite well, as would the wolf-type Shifter.

Stay away from racial hit dice and level adjustments! Really!

I don't know how to get a hold of that one. Shifter would be my best bet without getting too complex

Hit-die Werewolf that Kyuubi suggested looks like it's playable without level adjustment.

[Mystic Muse]

Hit-die Werewolf that Kyuubi suggested looks like it's playable without level adjustment.

It is. You don't even have to take the entire class, you can just take the first level.