Houseruling DR (3.5)

[panaikhan]

I am considering houseruling that Damage Reduction (like strength modifiers and some other mechanics) cannot reduce a successful weapon strike below 1 point of damage.
I know that I cannot simply do this without balancing it somehow - the question is, what to balance it with? I was considering a low value of Fast Healing - say 1pt per 5pts of DR...

Any comments would be appreciated.

[Jack_Simth]

Well, the first, obvious question is why you think DR needs house-ruling? Are you throwing a lot of high-DR critters at your players, and they're getting frustrated because they can't do anything, or do you have high-DR players, and are getting frustrated that they're not taking damage?

[Greenish]

I am considering houseruling that Damage Reduction (like strength modifiers and some other mechanics) cannot reduce a successful weapon strike below 1 point of damage.
I know that I cannot simply do this without balancing it somehow - the question is, what to balance it with? I was considering a low value of Fast Healing - say 1pt per 5pts of DR...

Why do you want to change it?

[panaikhan]

I am trying to come up with a half-reasonable mechanic / reason why a monster with a DR (such as a Werewolf) doesn't mosey into random villages slaughtering everything in sight because nothing can actually hurt it.
If it did get hurt (even if it is a series of pin-pricks over time), maybe it would think twice.

Also, there have been situations where the party are up against a monster, and, through basically a lack of planning on their part, only one member of the party can do any damage.

[hamishspence]

Maybe take the "Damage reduction is really instant healing" approach for some creatures?

And say damage stopped by damage reduction still hurts, a lot.

So- you slash a werewolf with a knife, the skin reknits behind the knife the moment it's cut open, and that werewolf is now in pain and angry.

[Thinker]

I am trying to come up with a half-reasonable mechanic / reason why a monster with a DR (such as a Werewolf) doesn't mosey into random villages slaughtering everything in sight because nothing can actually hurt it.
If it did get hurt (even if it is a series of pin-pricks over time), maybe it would think twice.

Werewolves are evil. I'd expect them to do this in remote areas. Most villages aren't remote; they're rural for sure, but no more than 5 - 6 miles to the next population center. That is close enough to get aid in a time of need. What keeps werewolves in check at the boundaries of kingdoms and empires is adventurers: monster hunters, clergy seeking to destroy evil and sin, agents of the king or nobleman sent to investigate a rash of murders, etc. Destroying a village takes time and even an evil agent of destruction like a werewolf might not have time or inclination to bring ruin all at once.

Also, there have been situations where the party are up against a monster, and, through basically a lack of planning on their part, only one member of the party can do any damage.

Does your party ever consider retreat? If it is a strategic blunder on their part, they will learn if they are defeated. Defeat does not always end in death; let them realize that they are outclassed and give them the opportunity to research their foe and to challenge it again.

As for your house rule, it's fine, though it definitely weakens DR creatures. If it is that big of a deal, simply don't use creatures with DR.

[Esser-Z]

I am trying to come up with a half-reasonable mechanic / reason why a monster with a DR (such as a Werewolf) doesn't mosey into random villages slaughtering everything in sight because nothing can actually hurt it.

And thus you see why Adventurers are vital to the survival of civilization.

[Snake-Aes]

I am trying to come up with a half-reasonable mechanic / reason why a monster with a DR (such as a Werewolf) doesn't mosey into random villages slaughtering everything in sight because nothing can actually hurt it.

No damage != no pain :p
That 1d4? THe one that didn't go through your dr 5/magic? It hurt like 2d6.
And the odd crit will still pierce.

And the monster's motivation can change. A werewolf might be satisfied, or pissed at the noise, in a trigger happy mood for staying hidden, or just plain lazy. Such monsters aren't machines.


And if the monster does happen to be utterly destructive, why shouldn't it succeed at killing everything within reach? Your party would either find the smelly village with everyone dead, or would find a fugitive screaming "Help me, help me! My family is stuck in a house and the big bad wolf is attacking and eating everyone!"

[Eldan]

Imagine the scene: it's the one you know from werewolf movies. Until the HERO (tm) of the movie shows up, no one can even scratch the werewolf. I mean, the villagers can still try and hold him off with bonfires and torches, or try and gang up on him and then grapple and chain him, but those are all very risky. Perhaps the village carpenter still manages to crit the werewolf for 15 damage with his axe.

Why shouldn't a small group of werewolves tear through a village?

[Greenish]

Why shouldn't a small group of werewolves tear through a village?

They would, too, if it wasn't for those meddling kids werebears.

Excellent excuse to make a whole village LG: get bitten by a werebear, or killed by the werewolves.

Werebear Crusade hoo!

[jiriku]

Direct answer to your question: The impact of the new rule is so slight that there's really no need to provide a new ability to compensate.

Sideways answer to your question: Creating houserules increases the complexity of your game very rapidly. An easier way to accomplish your goal would be to create a story reason for why werewolves aren't destroying civilization, rather than a mechanical houserule. The posters above have given several good examples of what story reasons you might use.

[Glimbur]

I am trying to come up with a half-reasonable mechanic / reason why a monster with a DR (such as a Werewolf) doesn't mosey into random villages slaughtering everything in sight because nothing can actually hurt it.
If it did get hurt (even if it is a series of pin-pricks over time), maybe it would think twice.

A scythe has a x4 crit. Assuming 10 or 11 Str, that is 2d4x4, or 16 damage max. However, commoners cannot be proficient in the scythe by their class alone. A bunch of slings do 1d4 x2 for crit, so they could, in large numbers, damage an afflicted lycanthrope. A natural lycanthrope requires a str bonus on the sling of at least +2 or use of a quarterstaff or longspear or crossbow or...

Crits. They are why a village can drive off a lycanthrope.

[Thinker]

A scythe has a x4 crit. Assuming 10 or 11 Str, that is 2d4x4, or 16 damage max. However, commoners cannot be proficient in the scythe by their class alone. A bunch of slings do 1d4 x2 for crit, so they could, in large numbers, damage an afflicted lycanthrope. A natural lycanthrope requires a str bonus on the sling of at least +2 or use of a quarterstaff or longspear or crossbow or...

Crits. They are why a village can drive off a lycanthrope.

How is it 16 damage max? 2x4 = 8. 8x4 = 32. 32-10 (DR) = 22. Even if you're working with averages, crit damage with a scythe would be 10 after DR. Meanwhile, slings would never hurt the lycanthrope without added strength damage.

[JeminiZero]

I am trying to come up with a half-reasonable mechanic / reason why a monster with a DR (such as a Werewolf) doesn't mosey into random villages slaughtering everything in sight because nothing can actually hurt it.

In support of finding other story reasons why werewolves don't just tear through villagers: If Lycanthropes are a common serious threat, the village folk will start stocking up silver weaponry that can punch through DR.

You could houserule that since the villagers were too poor to afford true silver weapons, and so they used partial silver-iron alloys that deal 1 damage per hit pass the DR or something.

Even without silver weapons, all they need to kill a werewolf are some flasks of oil, a common enough utility item. These can be converted into molotov cocktails, which deal fire damage that bypases DR.

[Greenish]

Ah, JeminiZero makes an excellent point, there's a reason "torches and pitchforks" includes torches. (A lit torch is an improvised weapon that deals 1d3 bludgeoning damage +1 fire damage. Energy damage bypasses all DR.)

[Skorj]

Ah, JeminiZero makes an excellent point, there's a reason "torches and pitchforks" includes torches. (A lit torch is an improvised weapon that deals 1d3 bludgeoning damage +1 fire damage. Energy damage bypasses all DR.)

I was about to post this exactly.

For situations where the party can't hurt the monster, OTOH, are the monsters CR-appropriate? Is the party sadly unoptimized? With CR-appropriate monsters, the party should be doing steady (but low) damage, or the monster should be a puzzle/trap that only becomes an opponent only if the party fails the real challenge.

[Person_Man]

I see no reason to house rule DR.

D&D does a really, really lousy job of simulating what the "real world" would be like if people had magic and vestiges and soulmelds and whatnot. Just spend 5 minutes thinking about the D&D economy (fixed prices), overpopulation (since injury, disease, and death are so easy to avoid), and politics (why isn't everything governed by a small number of Epic level spellcasters). Evil monster don't just rampage through villages because it's not in the plot you've written for the PCs. Unless it is, in which case they do.

If you need some thin thread to hang your suspension of disbelief on, then I agree with Glimbur et al regarding Critical Hits. If 100 villagers with 100 bows fire every round, on average 5 of them will roll natural 20's every round. Even if each of them only has 12 Str, that's still 3d8+3 damage. That's more then enough to bypass most DR. Also, rampaging through villages is a great way to attract more powerful adventurers who would have a much easier time killing you. And most importantly, just because you're Evil, it doesn't mean you're stupid. Evil people have intellect, motivations, etc. They don't just rampage through villages because they rarely have no reason to rampage through villages and nothing nothing to gain by doing so.

[Endarire]

Why don't higher level creatures just trounce lower-level ones? The DM says so.

[Jack_Simth]

I am trying to come up with a half-reasonable mechanic / reason why a monster with a DR (such as a Werewolf) doesn't mosey into random villages slaughtering everything in sight because nothing can actually hurt it.
If it did get hurt (even if it is a series of pin-pricks over time), maybe it would think twice.

Also, there have been situations where the party are up against a monster, and, through basically a lack of planning on their part, only one member of the party can do any damage.

Check the NPC wealth tables, then realize just how little Alchemical Silver/Cold Iron/Adamantine Crossbow Bolts/Sling Bullets cost on an individual basis. Even a commoner-1 can have a few, and they get to choose a simple weapon to be proficient with. Then check the population tables, and realize that there's a 3rd or 4th level character in almost every village, and, well... yeah, you don't go raiding willly-nilly.

[thubby]

I've generally worked around this problem by having major kingdoms having at least a handful of mid-high level characters. dealing with every werewolf would stretch them too thin to be useful, but the threat of the local liege-lord wiping out every critter in a hundred miles keeps them from making a big move.