Thinking About Switching Back to 3.5...

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I've been playing 4.0 for more than a year now.
Ive DMed many games, raided many dungeons, made a big pile of homebrew*, and argued many an argument about why 4th edition is superior - but the whole time something was missing.
I don't know what is was; perhaps it wad the intricacy of the rules and the flexibility of the system, or perhaps 3.x just had more, well, spirit.
Anyway, I've started to look back longingly on 3.5. Can you help me make the transition, and/or convince me to stick with 4e?

*Only a small fraction is in my signature.

[Kylarra]

I would just suggest playing a game or a few games. Don't try to look for to the internet to argue what your personal preferences should be.

[Chrono22]

Listen to Kylarra, that is excellent advice.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

I would just suggest playing a game or a few games. Don't try to look for to the internet to argue what your personal preferences should be.

I don't mean to start an argument, I just want to know where to start and to be given some guidance on the decision to switch back.
If this thread turns into the Edition Wars than I hope the mods shut it down immediately.

[Fax Celestis]

You could try an intermediary system, like my d20r or Pathfinder.

[oxybe]

personally?

i find 3.5 too much of a hassle with too much built-in traps. lower levels are too swingy, higher levels seem to require the GM to jump through hoops or apply too much fiat then i care for if you have an even slightly inventive caster.

i'll play it, but only with the right group.

mechanically 4th ed does exactly what i want from D&D. could it be done better? of course, but until then 4th ed does what i want from D&D the best of all editions & 3rd party spinoffs.

my opinion on what you should do? play/host a few games and decide for yourself. tastes, quite like your mileage, will vary.

[Chrono22]

Well, if your heart is set on switching back, then it should be a pretty simple process.

The hypertext d20 SRD - contains most of the core rules and monsters of 3.5. Note that core in this context means : PHB1, DMG1, MM1. It also contains some supplemental material from other sourcebooks that was released as OGL content, such as psionics or flaws. It does not contain the experience or point-buy charts.

Myth Weavers - allows you to host your character sheets online and grant permissions to a DM. It's form fillable, and does some of the work calculating save bonuses, skill bonuses, and encumberance for you.

Meetup.com or your LGS can help you find a group. Good gaming!

Edit: And yeah let me throw in a vote for pathfinder. You will be amazed at how much better the system is than standard 3.5. Alot more flexible, and it actually rewards single class advancement nicely.

[Knaight]

Depending on your free time, you may well be able to do both. As you described the situation, you like 4e, and clearly you like 3.5, and as you miss 3.5 elements in 4e, the reverse would likely be true. Furthermore, you state that over a year, there have been quite a few games as both player and GM, so it sounds like you would be able to have several games at once. If you can manage 4 you can GM and play in both systems.

Otherwise, have you considered homebrewing in 3.5? I personally don't like much crunch in play, and favor simple, elegant mechanics that are nonetheless somewhat realistic. However, I do have a crunch side, and when it needs to be itched I homebrew something detailed and crunchy, and return to normal play. Its worked wonders, and generated a pile of stuff I can use for ideas, even if it should never see play.

Furthermore, it might just be a desire for variety, so exploration over many systems, playing with lots of different people and lots of settings could be good, and with the internet that is frequently pretty easy.

[Flickerdart]

You could try playing 3.5 with a twist - go with Fax's d20r or simply blanket ban the bad stuff (no wizards, no fighters, no partially charged wands). Tome of Battle is a good straddling point between the two editions, Warlocks and Dragonfire Adepts could add the touch of magic you need, and Incarnum is an awesome gem that a lot of people never touch.

[Seffbasilisk]

Pathfinder might be a good transition, but if you want to switch back to 3.5, just do it.

There are SRDs if you don't have the books or .pdfs anymore, but trying to hybridize 4.0 and 3.5 will just be a headache.

Maybe I'm missing the question here, but it seems pretty straightforward to me. You switched to 4.0, you gave it your all, you gave it more than a fair shake, and you don't especially enjoy it.

The game's supposed to be fun.

So go back to v3.5, and if need be, use a premade adventure you remember fondly, or write one with tons of 3.5 nostalgia in it. Bits you remember most fondly as a player. Sovereign glue, rods of wonder, boots of flying...

Get back the fantasy, and get back in the game. Have fun.

[Tequila Sunrise]

I don't mean to start an argument, I just want to know where to start and to be given some guidance on the decision to switch back.

What do you find yourself thinking about when you long for 3e? The ability to freely mix n match classes? Then start a game without the multiclass rules. The planes? Then start a Planescape campaign. A good ol' dungeon crawl? Just do it!

I still like 4e myself, but sometimes I get this itch...like that itch you get when thinking about that wackjob g/f you had...she was a biyatch, but ya just can't get her out of your head. What I'm trying to say is, just do it if you want to. Because unlike g/fs, games don't care if you're unfaithful.

The only real question is, what does your group want, and who's going to DM?

[Reluctance]

It doesn't have to be one or the other. You can keep playing the edition you prefer, while having the occasional PBP game or one-off night on the side with your regular group. In fact, I highly recommend the latter; a new system every now and then can give you new ideas and keep things from getting stale.

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Is there an online Pathfinder database?
I'm thinking about PF and I want to try before I buy.

[Fax Celestis]

Is there an online Pathfinder database?
I'm thinking about PF and I want to try before I buy.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/

[Ozreth]

I'm in the exact same boat as you. Played 4e for about a year, liked it, but eventually found myself drawn back to 3.5.

My reasons:
-I like the intricacy.
-I like feeling weak at early levels with only a few spells or a simple weapon. I like the whole "start out as a simple farm boy with a pitchfork defending the village and grow to be a swashbuckling lord of some region" idea.
- Love the look and feel of the books. The art, the fluff, the layout, the tables, it's all so much more inspirational.
- I am all for different classes being weaker or stronger than others. Most of these things can be overcome and makes it all that much more rewarding.
- I know 4e classes feel different, but they are still tied together by the same at will/encounter/daily system. I don't want my rogue to have a "power" with an extravagant name, especially at early levels. I just wanna swing my blade : )
- I grew tired of the tactical wargame feel of 4e battle. Especially in published modules. Go through this hallway and you are in a big room with 5 baddies and 10 minions. Every single battle is large and extravagant, its just the way the system was designed (and it works well in that sense), but it just isn't for me.
- I like having extremely mundane things drawn out in rulebooks, it makes the game feel like much less of a make believe free for all type of thing. I like my role playing to have some guidelines I guess.

And my group and I are not the type to get into the whole "OP/UP/MIN/MAX" etc arguments. We don't mind or notice the "weaknesses" in the system and we embrace the strengths. I guess in other words, we dont take ourselves or the game too seriously.

Now 4e is a great system, it just isnt the game that I imagined when I first learned about this wonderful thing called Dungeons and Dragons. I guess what most people see as the benefits 4e has over 3.5 I see as weaknesses. Going back to 3.5 has been a breath of fresh air. I am not anti 4e, but by the sound of your post I feel that you are in the same boat I was not too long ago, so this may be that nudge you need. Being on the fence about what system to play if you only have time to play one of them sucks.

As others have noted, you may want to check out PF.

[Mando Knight]

Anyway, I've started to look back longingly on 3.5. Can you help me make the transition, and/or convince me to stick with 4e?

*Bonk*

It is not a dichotomy! It's like asking "Should I play only Final Fantasy IV, or only Dragon Quest V?" The question is wrong. Play what you like, and don't let someone tell you otherwise.

[742]

pick the system that fits the game you want to run best. 3.5 for this, 4th for that. or the other way around; its hard to say.

[JaxGaret]

E6, E6, E6, E6.

Did I mention E6?

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=352719

Check it out. Seriously.

[AslanCross]

If you have the materials for both, there's nothing that stops you from playing both. I don't think it's necessarily an exclusive choice.

[Knaight]

It is not a dichotomy! It's like asking "Should I play only Final Fantasy IV, or only Dragon Quest V?" The question is wrong. Play what you like, and don't let someone tell you otherwise.

Exactly. Its only that you can only play one of those games at any given moment.

[Comet]

You should play Advanced Dungeons and Dragons!
Or 3.5, I suppose. Or 4e. But AD&D is the one that I'm longing to get back into.

[FelixG]

They are mutually exclusive and unrelated products. Its like the "Wanted" graphic novel and movie adaptation

They share a name and some names but little else.

So why give up one in favor of the other? I play Exalted and Pathfinder and 3.5 and i didn't have to give up any of them

Why cant you play 3.5 and 4e as well?

I am personally a fan of 3.5 over 4e so if a hard line decision is required i would say 3.5, because I enjoy the spirit and freedom of the game.

But overall i would counsel, try to keep both in your life, otherwise its just a waste of money!

[Coidzor]

and argued many an argument about why 4th edition is superior

There's your problem there. You've got some kind of superiority complex that you're still having to work through.

Simply put, that sort of paradigm is... silly. It's... beside the point to even try to think that way.

[Tehnar]

Might I suggest you try a completely different system, one that has no relation to dnd?

It might give you a new perspective on your gaming, and trying out new things is fun. Don't get me wrong, I like DnD, but I found it worthwhile to try other things also.

[Pika...]

I would just suggest playing a game or a few games. Don't try to look for to the internet to argue what your personal preferences should be.

Agreed.

As much as I am a 3.5 "holdout", I tell people you should play what you enjoy.

See if your old group/friends would like to try a game, and see how it goes.

Will it be what you remember and feel is missing? Maybe, and if it is go back.

Will you find you did like 4.0 more? Maybe, and if so stay with 4.0.


Just play something you enjoy. heck, I know people who have one 4.0 group for the bare-bone hack-and-slash, then they come over to my table another day of the week for deep roleplaying in 3.5. So you could still have the best of both worlds.



ps. Now with all that said and being fair and what-not, hope you at least partly come back to us josha.

[Chipp Zanuff]

I don't mean to start an argument, I just want to know where to start and to be given some guidance on the decision to switch back.
If this thread turns into the Edition Wars than I hope the mods shut it down immediately.

If you want game balance? Don't look anywhere near 3.5. Or RPGs for that matter.


If you want mechanically sound and easily optimized? 3.5.

If you want something a little faster and doesn't require a lot of cash (and don't mind all the crap that comes with a cheap solution)? Pathfinder.

[BobVosh]

I'm in the exact same boat as you. Played 4e for about a year, liked it, but eventually found myself drawn back to 3.5.

My reasons:
-I like the intricacy.
-I like feeling weak at early levels with only a few spells or a simple weapon. I like the whole "start out as a simple farm boy with a pitchfork defending the village and grow to be a swashbuckling lord of some region" idea.
- Love the look and feel of the books. The art, the fluff, the layout, the tables, it's all so much more inspirational.
- I am all for different classes being weaker or stronger than others. Most of these things can be overcome and makes it all that much more rewarding.
- I know 4e classes feel different, but they are still tied together by the same at will/encounter/daily system. I don't want my rogue to have a "power" with an extravagant name, especially at early levels. I just wanna swing my blade : )
- I grew tired of the tactical wargame feel of 4e battle. Especially in published modules. Go through this hallway and you are in a big room with 5 baddies and 10 minions. Every single battle is large and extravagant, its just the way the system was designed (and it works well in that sense), but it just isn't for me.
- I like having extremely mundane things drawn out in rulebooks, it makes the game feel like much less of a make believe free for all type of thing. I like my role playing to have some guidelines I guess.

And my group and I are not the type to get into the whole "OP/UP/MIN/MAX" etc arguments. We don't mind or notice the "weaknesses" in the system and we embrace the strengths. I guess in other words, we dont take ourselves or the game too seriously.

Now 4e is a great system, it just isnt the game that I imagined when I first learned about this wonderful thing called Dungeons and Dragons. I guess what most people see as the benefits 4e has over 3.5 I see as weaknesses. Going back to 3.5 has been a breath of fresh air. I am not anti 4e, but by the sound of your post I feel that you are in the same boat I was not too long ago, so this may be that nudge you need. Being on the fence about what system to play if you only have time to play one of them sucks.

As others have noted, you may want to check out PF.

I may actually recommend 2ed for you.

Then again I'm getting that weird urge for 2ed lately. Especially weird since I grew up on D&D3.x as far as RPG experience goes.

[Kobold-Bard]

Play splat classes only. Tome of Magic, Tome of Battle, Incarnum, Warmage/Dread Necro/Beguiler, Warlock/Dragonfire Adept/Factotum etc. Add Psionics to taste; maybe just Ardent/Psi War/Soulknife (homebrew obviously).

You have all your roles available, but non of the uberpower (Wiz, Cle, Dru) and non of the fail (Fighter, Monk).

Obviously stuff still needs tweaking (homebrew Truenamer, no Artificer etc.) but I think that could work.

[The Big Dice]

I may actually recommend 2ed for you.

Then again I'm getting that weird urge for 2ed lately. Especially weird since I grew up on D&D3.x as far as RPG experience goes.

I'll second that. Well, kind of. I've gone all retro myself lately, starting up a D&D RUles Cyclopedia game.

And you can get a ton of free retro clone gaes nowadays. Download, see which one you like the look of and play that.

[Psyx]

You can.... Play Both!

Why do you have to consign yourself to one system for all eternity?

Now could even be the time to try.... *drum roll* ... another genre.

There are at least 50 fairly easily obtainable and reasonably well supported games currently available, and frankly 3.5 and 4 are right there near the bottom of the pile as regards system mechanics. Try something new, and less badly written.