Curse You Ebay! or Converting from 4th ed to 3.5

[Mauther]

I picked up a copy of EN Publishing's "War of the Burning Sky" used on ebay (sorry I wasn't going to pay $70 for a pdf) but it turns out the seller failed to identify it correctly, it was listed as 3.5, but in actuality is the newer 4ed conversion. My question is, how difficult is it to retro convert 4th to 3.5? Any resources anyone can point me to would be appreciated. I was planning on mining the campaign for some filler material in my campaign, but if its too much trouble I may just chalk this up as a learning experience.

[Da Beast]

Story wise it shouldn't be too hard. Mechanically they're far too different to just convert between editions. You'll probably have to make all of the stats from scratch.

[Ravens_cry]

Get your money back if you can as this was a SNAFU on the sellers end. Fourth edition and 3.X are more different then 3.X and Mutants and Masterminds; converting them would be more like translating.

[WitchSlayer]

No way. It is very very different.

[Katana_Geldar]

Wizards haven't done an official conversion for D&D like was done for SW?

I am disappointed.

[ericgrau]

The official conversion is keep the same story but rebuild all the stats. It really is like 2 entirely different games so a direct conversion would have been too difficult.

+1 to get your money back or keep the story and start over on all the monster and etc. stats.

[FelixG]

Wizards haven't done an official conversion for D&D like was done for SW?

I am disappointed.

Are you kidding? As soon as 4e hit the shelves they pretty much took a look at the 3.5 players and said "Screw you guys, buy the new junk and deal with it. We just want your money"

Wizards doesn't care about the players one bit

[Kurald Galain]

My question is, how difficult is it to retro convert 4th to 3.5?

That's not feasible. The two systems are as different as night and day.

[Dsurion]

Have you asked around on the ENWorld forums? Those guys are usually pretty helpful. Maybe someone there can either make suggestions, or had the same problem.

[oxybe]

Are you kidding? As soon as 4e hit the shelves they pretty much took a look at the 3.5 players and said "Screw you guys, buy the new junk and deal with it. We just want your money"

Wizards doesn't care about the players one bit

i dunno... they seemed to care about this player by making 4th

[Tyndmyr]

Get your money back if you can as this was a SNAFU on the sellers end. Fourth edition and 3.X are more different then 3.X and Mutants and Masterminds; converting them would be more like translating.

This, definitely this.

I'd be annoyed if I bid on something listed as 3.5, and it turned out to be 4th.

You just can't do a conversion between 3.5 and 4e. 3.0 and 3.5? Sure, not hard. 2 to 3.5? Also frequently possible, and often surprisingly easy. Not 4th, though.

[Mauther]

Thanks for the responses. Not the answers I was hoping for, but whatare you going to do. The seller already denied the refund, and I've neg repped him. Whan you get bargain basement prices on ebay you are taking your chances, this is one of those live and learn moments. As for getting on the ENWorld forums, they probably would help, but I'd feel sceevy for purchasing their product second hand and then coming to them crying for help. Seems hypocritical to complain about their price point and then ask for assistance for a product I didn't pay them for.

I'll probably just restat the encounters.

[ericgrau]

If it's already second hand you might get a lot of your money back by reselling it.

[Person_Man]

I haven't read War of the Burning Sky, but it's possible that you could find all or most of the monsters from 4E in the 3.5 books. The balance would be way off, but it's not like you'd have to homebrew stats for a 3.5 Displacer Beast just because a 4E Displacer Beast is what's listed. Similarly, you it's easy enough to generate 3.5 treasure. NPCs would essentially have to be rewritten from scratch though. But if they're not going to be involved in combat, it's a non-issue.

[Fax Celestis]

I haven't read War of the Burning Sky, but it's possible that you could find all or most of the monsters from 4E in the 3.5 books. The balance would be way off, but it's not like you'd have to homebrew stats for a 3.5 Displacer Beast just because a 4E Displacer Beast is what's listed. Similarly, you it's easy enough to generate 3.5 treasure. NPCs would essentially have to be rewritten from scratch though. But if they're not going to be involved in combat, it's a non-issue.

The problem with WotBS is that it's mostly humanoid opponents.

[Person_Man]

The problem with WotBS is that it's mostly humanoid opponents.

Oh cruel fate, to be thusly boned! Ask not for whom the bone bones - it bones for thee.

[arguskos]

Oh cruel fate, to be thusly boned! Ask not for whom the bone bones - it bones for thee.

...can I sig this? Please?

[Person_Man]

...can I sig this? Please?

Yes, though I was just quoting Bender from Futurama. I assumed it was well known enough that I didn't have to attribute it. Sorry.

[Shpadoinkle]

You're basically asking "How can I convert Poker into Chess rules?" here. Not gonna happen.

[Telonius]

You're basically asking "How can I convert Poker into Chess rules?" here. Not gonna happen.

... Blast you to the ninth circle, now I'm considering how that would work. You already have a king, queen, and jack (knight). 1-10 would be the pawns, Rooks as the jokers...

[Mando Knight]

You're basically asking "How can I convert Poker into Chess rules?" here. Not gonna happen.

Not quite that far. Closer to making Kyle Katarn (Dark Forces) out of Revan or the Exile (KotOR I/II): same company, same series, different rulesets.

[Barbarian MD]

Thanks for the responses. Not the answers I was hoping for, but whatare you going to do. The seller already denied the refund, and I've neg repped him. Whan you get bargain basement prices on ebay you are taking your chances, this is one of those live and learn moments. As for getting on the ENWorld forums, they probably would help, but I'd feel sceevy for purchasing their product second hand and then coming to them crying for help. Seems hypocritical to complain about their price point and then ask for assistance for a product I didn't pay them for.

I'll probably just restat the encounters.

No, no, no. Dispute it on eBay. It doesn't work like that. They HAVE to give you a refund or else it's fraud. Take it up a level, either by disputing it on your credit card or contacting eBay administration. If you want a refund for a wrongly labeled item, you get it, end of story.

Here's the link to get you started: http://resolutioncenter.ebay.com/

[RebelRogue]

I haven't read the module in question, but I think people are overreacting just a tiny bit. Yes, it will take some work, but if you have a good grasp of both systems, it should be doable. I agree, that this is the 'hard way around': converting (any) stuff into 4e is pretty much a breeze (at least to me), since you can focus on story more than mechanics. Yes, there will be encounters, but those are easy to tweak according to level/making iconic abilities into powers. Going the other way is more work-intensive, especially if you are concerned about everything being completely rules-legal, but it's certainly not impossible. Though if you bought it to save on prep time, you are pretty much boned, yes.

[Claudius Maximus]

No, no, no. Dispute it on eBay. It doesn't work like that. They HAVE to give you a refund or else it's fraud. Take it up a level, either by disputing it on your credit card or contacting eBay administration. If you want a refund for a wrongly labeled item, you get it, end of story.

Here's the link to get you started: http://resolutioncenter.ebay.com/

I recommend this too, if you really want to return it rather than adapt it. I got in a very similar situation myself, having bought a "Magic Item Compendium" that turned out to be the 4e Adventurer's Vault. I was able to get a refund using some of eBay's services. I don't think the seller has a leg to stand on, if he really did explicitly advertise the product as 3.5.

[imp_fireball]

Story wise it shouldn't be too hard. Mechanically they're far too different to just convert between editions. You'll probably have to make all of the stats from scratch.

True, but you can combine elements of the two genres to get the same 'purpose' (ie. what with minions, etc.).

NPCs who are warlords (or whatever) can just have a bunch of homebrewed leadership associated feats - or you could give them the feat leadership and the ability to boost allies as part of a template (the template could be 'I am a commander and I happen to command for LA X' and has toughness to make up for loss HD covered by levels in fighter, etc.). Power heavy encounters could be reworked into encounters with ToB style characters.

For casters, invent a few new spells to cover what the adventure intended and 'bar off' the domains that a specific wizard has - that's really the only difference between 4th and 3.5 ed (i mean really, they should have called 4th D&D 3ed Lite, not 'the next big thing ololol'... pfft, ignorance and marketing make for a yucky chemistry).

In place of healing surge - a new feat. Or a variant of each class to suit the 4th ed classes better - fighter loses one general feat (still retains fighter bonus feat) for healing surge. Wizard is much more barred domain wise in exchange for healing surge. Paladin... somehow has healing surge (in exchange for trading away something from 3ed that didn't really fall in with 4ed). I hope you get the idea.

For the actual adventures - you'd have to redesign the encounters a bit if you want pure 3.5ed. 4th focuses largely on combat, so it shouldn't involve too much actual adventure redesign, though. Mainly, just reworking the NPCs and the 'minions'. Minions can easily be included in 3.5ed as can bosses - bosses might have healing surge for free for example or double hp.

'Bloodied'? Morale bonus on all combat based checks - that is combat maneuvers (bull rush, trip, etc.), caster level checks, attack rolls, damage dealt by attack rolls, caster level checks, and maybe even damage dealt by spells and other abilities (powers, invocations, class abilities, etc.).

You can enhance it for 3.5ed by making it relate to wisdom bonus or con bonus, representing a character's control over their minds and the ability to adapt to circumstances or to overcharge their adrenaline (it could be a minimum +2; or maybe every bonus goes up by 50% - or whatever the bloodied rules are in 4e).

Of course, I wouldn't reccomend some of the silly things like confining players to just one class. Apparently when WotC said they wanted to make D&D easier to learn, they made it 'too easy to master' - a more intelligent approach would have been 'easier to learn' but possibly 'harder to master', more realistic and thus more interesting.

Which is my approach with my OGL 3.6 that I'm working on - although I can only hope for the former (perhaps just by making the wording more clear and concise once it finally gets peached at some point in the far future) and currently GMing would seem more sloggish (right now, it's essentially made to be 'advanced 3.5' or '3.5 for veteran and dedicated campaign designers/fans').

[RebelRogue]

I wouldn't get too caught up in specific rules of the edition like that. Unless some opponent for which you need stats has a specific power/skill/ritual that is important to the overall plot, you're better off picking something that you know well/fits your preferences, which matches the overall theme of the original. For instance, if you need to convert a martial character, you could model him as a fighter, a warblade, a ranger or whatever - pick what you are familiar with within the general theme. Unless the evil Duke's power to daze you with his swordsmanship is important for the story, there's no need to worry about matching it exactly. Just do a swashbuckly character as you best see fit.

I hope this makes some kind of sense.

[Grommen]

Hay you can convert A shadowrun adventure to 4th ed D&D and then back to 2nd ed gurps if you wanted.

Just ain't really worth the hassle most of the time. I converted "The Bloodstone Lands" from 1st edition D&D to 3.5 edition. The result was that I spent more time converting the monsters and tweaking the story than it did to actually play the modules. Those editions are at least close. And as a result I know more about stat blocks than any casual player ever should.

[Oracle_Hunter]

I haven't read the module in question, but I think people are overreacting just a tiny bit. Yes, it will take some work, but if you have a good grasp of both systems, it should be doable. I agree, that this is the 'hard way around': converting (any) stuff into 4e is pretty much a breeze (at least to me), since you can focus on story more than mechanics. Yes, there will be encounters, but those are easy to tweak according to level/making iconic abilities into powers. Going the other way is more work-intensive, especially if you are concerned about everything being completely rules-legal, but it's certainly not impossible. Though if you bought it to save on prep time, you are pretty much boned, yes.

Dude, you've got it backwards.

He wants to convert a 4th Edition module into 3.5.

Might as well try to unscramble an egg. Dude's boned in a big bad way.

+1 to dispute it on eBay. If he listed it as 3.5 and sold you something different, you must have a case.

[RebelRogue]

Dude, you've got it backwards.

He wants to convert a 4th Edition module into 3.5.

Might as well try to unscramble an egg. Dude's boned in a big bad way.

+1 to dispute it on eBay. If he listed it as 3.5 and sold you something different, you must have a case.

No, I got it. That's why I'm sayng it's the hard way. It takes more work, but it's not impossible.

[Oracle_Hunter]

No, I got it. That's why I'm sayng it's the hard way. It takes more work, but it's not impossible.

Ah. When you said how easy it was to convert things into D&D4, I thought you had missed the point.

No, merely because it is easy to turn eggs into an omelet doesn't mean it is easy to turn an omelet back into eggs. The fact that it is easy to 'brew stuff into D&D4 has very little to do with the OP's predicament; it is roughly as easy to convert D&D4 into 3.5 as it is to convert into any other rules-intensive system on the market (e.g. SR, WoD, GURPS). At that point it is no longer a "conversion;" you're just taking the plot & maps from a module and porting it into a new system.