Evil Minions... (3.5)

[panaikhan]

So, I have an Evil character with the Leadership feat, and an Evil cohort. Later levels, I will be getting Evil followers.

By RAW, "it just happens", but I would like to investigate from an RP point of view.

How do I treat my minions fairly, while:
a) retaining my Evil alignment (and theirs)
b) preventing them from 'turning on me'

[hamishspence]

You could go with the Savage Species suggestion- an evil guy can be loyal, loving, kind, and so on- to members of their in-group, while cruel and vicious toward those who are not members.

The Evil Overlord list has a lot of suggestions for would-be Evil Overlords- quite a few of which involve treating minions kindly but firmly.

The list is to be found here:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ilOverlordList

[Snake-Aes]

So, I have an Evil character with the Leadership feat, and an Evil cohort. Later levels, I will be getting Evil followers.

By RAW, "it just happens", but I would like to investigate from an RP point of view.

How do I treat my minions fairly, while:
a) retaining my Evil alignment (and theirs)
b) preventing them from 'turning on me'

Evil != "mwahaha suffer my little puppets!"

[dsmiles]

Remember, minions are pretty dumb. You could keep them in the dark for a long time, while you subvert their evil beliefs. You could convince them that hugging puppies is more evil than kicking puppies, and all will be well, as long as they believe that they are being evil.

[Malbordeus]

just make sure that you give them ebil orders. or aquire the money your paying them from burning orphans? orphanages? (or through buying said buildings for less than they are worth and running a business that makes profit, whilst turning children out onto the street, and rendering unemployed the good people who used to work there.)

no reason you cant be a nice guy whilst being a souless monster either.

[dsmiles]

whilst turning children out onto the street

Why turn them out into the street? Give 'em bread and water and run your own little sweatshop.

[hamishspence]

Evil != "mwahaha suffer my little puppets!"

And even when it is, there's no reason the minions have to be the little puppets in question.

[Snake-Aes]

And even when it is, there's no reason the minions have to be the little puppets in question.

Yeah. Evil leaders are very charismatic. A very simple, if clichéd example is that wacky nazi. Shishio Makoto and Doctor Doom are good fictional examples.

[hamishspence]

Hank Scorpio from The Simpsons balanced being a benevolent boss, with being an evil overlord, quite well.

[Morph Bark]

Why turn them out into the street? Give 'em bread and water and run your own little sweatshop.

Or train them as assassins. Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition, but even fewer expect it to be entirely made up of little kids with poisoned knives.

[Kish]

I presume you know how to play your character as evil generally. That being the case, there's something I'm a little unsure of.

Do you want to treat your minions fairly, but you're concerned you'll suffer an alignment shift upward if you do? If that's the case, you shouldn't need to worry about it, but, of course, only your DM can tell you whether or not you do need to worry about it in his/her games.

Or, do you think you're obligated to if you don't want to lose the effects of the Leadership feat?

Since we're not in the Order of the Stick forum, you may or may not be familiar with that comic at all, but if you are, the book Start of Darkness is (among other things) an excellent demonstration of how someone can be utterly evil, treat his cohort like total crap, and still keep his cohort completely loyal.

[Snake-Aes]

Or train them as assassins. Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition, but even fewer expect it to be entirely made up of little kids with poisoned knives.

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[Lysander]

Treat them like friends, give them reasonable shares of the loot, and if anyone betrays you make a horrific example out of them.

[hamishspence]

According to Exemplars of Evil, a Forgiving villain can have a long and prosperous career- if they have a decidedly less forgiving second-in-command.

[dsmiles]

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Totally freakin' awesome. Little kid assassins.

[hamishspence]

Mirror Kirk had kid assassins in William Shatner's Star Trek novels- with poison needles under the fingernails.

[grarrrg]

How do I treat my minions fairly, while:
a) retaining my Evil alignment (and theirs)
b) preventing them from 'turning on me'

You didn't specify Lawful/Chaotic, so here's a couple suggestions:

Lawful Evil? "Businessman" (aka "The Enron") Run it sort of like a company, as long as your 'employees' follow YOUR rules, and are adequetely punished when they don't, then everyone is happy. Your 'employees' are loyal, because that leads to 'promotions' and rewards. And you can still be plenty evil while sitting firmly in the Law.

Chaotic Evil? "Pirate" (aka the "Rape, Murder, Arson, and Rape" guy from Blazing Saddles) Pick minions that are just a little crazy and give them some direction. Give them a share of the loot, you're the boss, you get 10-shares because you come up with all the good ideas. As long as the money/fun keeps flowing, they'll stay happy.

Long story short, you don't have to be "nice", you just have to be fair.

[Zaydos]

Is it better to be loved or feared? Cicero's old question.

Well this is D&D so it's better to be loved since if you are people will gladly hold off a dragon for a round or two to save you. That said, Machiavelli came to the conclusion it is best to be both loved and feared like Hannibal was. Be firm and make sure they know that lack of discipline or betrayal will be punished, but also that good service will be rewarded. If someone betrays make an example of them. If someone fails at a task they should have been able to handle (either due to negligence or sheer stupidity) make an example of them. If they succeed at a task reward them. If they fail at a task they should reasonably be expected to fail at just don't reward them (maybe take some privileges away).

[dsmiles]

I'm thinking more of a darker Oliver Twist-type kid, than of a Star Trek-type kid. Little early-industrial/steampunk death dealers.

[Morph Bark]

I'm thinking more of a darker Oliver Twist-type kid, than of a Star Trek-type kid. Little early-industrial/steampunk death dealers.

The smudges of oil and dirt they are covered in? Contact poison that they've been conditioned to be immune to.

[dsmiles]

The smudges of oil and dirt they are covered in? Contact poison that they've been conditioned to be immune to.

Imagine the stories your players will tell about that encounter...

[Morph Bark]

Imagine the stories your players will tell about that encounter...

I also wonder if human children can be Magebred and the like...

Do humanoids become animals if their Int score is permanently lowered to 1 or 2?

[dsmiles]

I also wonder if human children can be Magebred and the like...

Do humanoids become animals if their Int score is permanently lowered to 1 or 2?

I don't know, maybe they just become too stupid to speak in more than incoherent grunts and whistles?

[Zaydos]

I also wonder if human children can be Magebred and the like...

Do humanoids become animals if their Int score is permanently lowered to 1 or 2?

No they don't. But they do become incapable of intelligent speech, or alignments other than true neutral.

[Morph Bark]

No they don't. But they do become incapable of intelligent speech, or alignments other than true neutral.

Bah, that's effectively animal-type anyway. Humanoid and animal HD, skill points and BAB are the same already, saves are variable for humanoids so it dun matter really.

Hmmm... where can I find the Magebred and Warbeast templates? It's time to go crazy with the crazy kids.

[The-Mage-King]

Bah, that's effectively animal-type anyway. Humanoid and animal HD, skill points and BAB are the same already, saves are variable for humanoids so it dun matter really.

Hmmm... where can I find the Magebred and Warbeast templates? It's time to go crazy with the crazy kids.

Ebberron Campaign Setting and MMII, respectively.

[panaikhan]

You didn't specify Lawful/Chaotic

OK, I'll provide a little backstory.
The PC is a Neutral Evil Drow Cleric of Vhaeraun.
The cohort is a female Drow Rogue.

According to the fluff, Vhaeraun's clerics are obligated to help drow thieves, but I want to make sure of the IC 'pecking order', without adversely effecting my OOC Leadership score.

So yeah, I'm looking at the "firm but fair" or other similar options.