[D&D 4e] Tips and tricks to character optimization?

[tahu88810]

So, I've been playing 3.5 for a while now. I'm not a master when it comes to optimization, or anything like that, but I know my way around a character. Recently, I've found myself in a position where I will be playing a 4th edition character soon. Specifically, level 11. Everything is A-Ok, as long as it would be 'legal' for official play (I'm assuming that means with the DCI numbers and stuff, yeah?)

Here's the thing, though...I'll be playing with people who are already pretty familiar with 4e. I don't want to suck, since I do have a reputation to uphold, owing to some of the characters I made when we played 3.5 together. So, with that said, what sort of tricks and nuances do I need to be aware of when making a 4th edition character? And let's pretend that I don't need to worry about access to any of the books.

(Also, I know that 4th edition was supposed to have been set up in a way where party roles matter, but I don't think they will so much here. I'd also like to note that my prior experience with 4th edition has led me to believe that every single class has the exact same set of abilities, but I'm willing to bet that was only because we were low level.)

[huttj509]

First question: What do you want to do?

Distract the enemies to protect allies?
Kill the enemies?
Debuff/move/otherwise control the enemies in order to turn the combat to your advantage?
Buff/move/heal/grant more attacks to allies?

[Mando Knight]

I'd also like to note that my prior experience with 4th edition has led me to believe that every single class has the exact same set of abilities, but I'm willing to bet that was only because we were low level.

*snrk* Sorry, but no. Until you look into Psionics or Essentials classes, they all have the exact same progression of powers (the former replaces encounter powers with more at-wills and Power Points, and the latter replaces some of the powers with "class features" that work roughly as frequently as powers do), but class features, feats, and specific powers are all quite different.

For example: a Fighter can mark (a condition that says "fight me or take -2 to your attacks, and I'll hit you again") his target by attacking him, then over the next turn can attack the opponent again (almost for free) for trying to slip away (via shifting, the 4e equivalent of a 5-foot step) or for attacking someone else. However, a Paladin calls down the power of his god to mark an opponent up to several squares away as a minor action, and if the opponent disobeys, he automatically gets smashed with a set amount of radiant damage. A Swordmage has a variable "Aegis" mark chosen at character creation, that lets him mark like a Paladin (but at shorter range), then teleport either himself or the opponent next to the other (attacking the opponent if he's chosen the teleport-self version, or opening up the opponent to easier hits for his allies for the other) or negate a set amount of damage from the enemy's attack.

And that's not even getting into the Swordmage's and Paladin's ranged powers (the former are a touch more common), the Fighter's massive damage output, or the Paladin's ability to heal his allies almost as well as a dedicated Leader (healer) class.

[tahu88810]

First question: What do you want to do?

Distract the enemies to protect allies?
Kill the enemies?
Debuff/move/otherwise control the enemies in order to turn the combat to your advantage?
Buff/move/heal/grant more attacks to allies?

Looking through a friend's character generator the other day, I liked the looks of the Assassin class and the Revenant race. That doesn't really answer the question, though, does it?

I suppose I'd prefer to kill enemies, with a healthy amount of debuffing and other forms of control if possible?

[ShaggyMarco]

Beginner's guide to optimization:

In General:
1. Pick one thing and do it very well (pushing enemies around, debuffing enemy attack rolls, dealing damage, healing, granting allies bonuses to hit, etc., inflicting saving throw penalties), then see what resources you have left over (powers, feats, class abilities) that you can't use to serve that purpose and do a second thing pretty well. If that second thing is related/helped by the first, then great.

2. A race is more than just it's ability scores. While you'll want at least 1 ability score to enhance an ability your class uses, frequently other racial features make not getting a +2 in your primary attack worth it (Elf, Half-Elf, and Dwarf all definitely apply here. Depending on what you want, the other races can too)

3. Know your party. This is not a solo game, and optimizing alongside members of the team can lead to some truly amazing moments. Look for threads on Team Super-charger or Radiant Mafia to see what I mean.

For weapon users:
1. You need to hit. This does NOT mean that you need a 20 in your attack stat. It does, however, mean, that if you are sticking a 16 there, you need to make up for it by using a +3 proficiency weapon and powers that are weapon attacks which target Non-AC defenses. Starting with a 17-19 *with or without racial mods) is frequently worth the extra points you'll get for ability scores that modify your other defenses and secondary-abilities.

2. Find weapon powers that hit multiple times per use. This is easiest to do with a ranger.

3. Stock up on static damage bonuses. This is how you can deal all crazy sorts of damage.

3. If at all possible, grab a superior weapon.

For Implement users:

1. You need to hit. This does NOT mean that you need a 20 in your attack stat. It does, however, mean, that if you are sticking a 16 there, you need to make up for it somehow, which can be hard with implements.

2. Pick powers that target a variety of defenses. Know which type of monsters will have strong/weak defenses and which ones they are.

3. FInd ways to bring down their resistances or increase vulnerabilities to the damage you can deal.

Beyond these guidelines, it would be good to know what sort of character you want to play (striker, defender, controller, or leader) and even which class you want to be. Despite what your experience may have been, most classes need to be approached in very different ways to get the most out of them (with some overlap.)

[Surrealistik]

This is true for essentially every build except some 'lazy' Warlord and Wizard ones: maximize your chance to hit, no exceptions; if a feat helps you hit, it's the first thing you take. It's a feat tax. You TAKE it. Versatile Expertise and Superior Implements are examples of such feats.

[Zaydos]

Well I'm not the best at 4e, and don't have the character builder, but I'd advice staying away from Assassin as it has rather low damage for a striker and in the campaign I played with one it was directly outclassed by the ranger (most damage), monk (more maneuverable, more control, and better damage), and the sorceress (AoEs for another type of control, and better damage). The monk was the only experienced player, and but not particularly optimized (I was the defender and matched/beat the assassin in maneuverability and control). I might suggest rogue as they have good damage and a heaping helping of debuffs, I only played one once but it was fun. Managed to escape a significantly higher level solo monster that wanted me dead, and then come back and kill a paragon tier (Lv 12 or 13) rogue despite only being Lv 9 (the funny thing was we were almost identical for those first 9 levels, I just hit first and kept him debuffed).

[Kurald Galain]

Looking through a friend's character generator the other day, I liked the looks of the Assassin class and the Revenant race.

...so play a revenant assassin.

I suppose I'd prefer to kill enemies, with a healthy amount of debuffing and other forms of control if possible?

The rogue and warlock are good choices here - both are strikers (damage dealers) with a fair amount of nasty status effects.

General nuances include,

• It's better to be good at one or a few things, than to be mediocre at a lot of things. "Jack of all trades, master of none" is not a viable party role.
• Don't worry too much about party roles: as long as you have a healer, any combination of roles is playable.
• Attack bonuses are better than damage bonuses, and resistances tend to be better than defenses.
• Remember that a +1 bonus to a 1d20 roll is only relevant 5% of the time; therefore a good property or power is stronger than a +1 bonus. This applies to both items and feats (and your race, too).
• Don't worry if one of your fort/ref/will is low; this is normal for most classes.
• Start with a prime ability score of at least 18 (this includes your racial bonus).
• Take a multiclass feat, they're really good.
• Don't play a hybrid for your first character.
• If you're a melee character, carry a heavy thrown weapon so that you have ranged capability. If you are a ranged character, have some way of dealing with enemies that melee you (e.g. a "close" attack).

$.2

if a feat helps you hit, it's the first thing you take. It's a feat tax. You TAKE it. Versatile Expertise and Superior Implements are examples of such feats.

This is an exaggeration. While Expertise is something that every character should pick up eventually, there are higher priorities than a 5% increase in your to-hit. Primarily, any feat that enables extra options (e.g. Enlarge Spell, Polearm Momentum, or Skill Power) is more important.

Well I'm not the best at 4e, and don't have the character builder, but I'd advice staying away from Assassin as it has rather low damage

A few classes are generally considered weak. This primarily means the Seeker, Assault Swordmage, and Assassin. Weak does not mean unplayable, but if you're into optimized characters, you may want to pick another class.

[Hal]

Optimization in 4e is different from 3.5 because of the character roles. LIkely, the "best choices" for your character will depend largely on the GM and the other players. If your GM doesn't challenge you too much, additional healing powers may not be necessary. If your GM likes to use minions, then feats and powers that grant AoE or additional attacks will be better.

That said, there are two things that will be true no matter which class you choose:

-Focus as much as possible on your class ability scores. In general, you want at least a 16 in your primary attack stat, and no less than 14 in your secondary stat. Some classes will benefit from both secondary stats; only branch into third stat if you have good synergy from racial bonuses.

-Get as many attack (to-hit) bonuses as possible. A high score in your primary stat will go a long way towards that goal, but feats and magic items are important, too. No class can live up to its potential if it can't hit anything.

As long as you stick to those rules, everything else is pretty much gravy. The difference between an "optimized" character and a non-optimized one is not quite as dramatic in 4e as it was in 3.5.

Edit: Ooof, beaten to the punch. Guess I shouldn't take so long to post.

[Surrealistik]

This is an exaggeration. While Expertise is something that every character should pick up eventually, there are higher priorities than a 5% increase in your to-hit. Primarily, any feat that enables extra options (e.g. Enlarge Spell, Polearm Momentum, or Skill Power) is more important.

It's not much of one, and it's generally true save for a couple of specific builds (Skill Power will almost never supersede it as a priority, and Enlarge Spell is debatable at best). Expertise ranks sky blue to gold with respect to virtually every build ever.

[Kurald Galain]

It's not much of one, and it's generally true save for a couple of specific builds (Skill Power will almost never supersede it as a priority, and Enlarge Spell is debatable at best). Expertise ranks sky blue to gold with respect to virtually every build ever.

No, it is a wild exaggeration. 4E intentionally does not have a single best playstyle, and an option considered "mandatory" by one playstyle can easily be considered "mediocre" by another.

The notion that "all members of <class> must take <feat> immediately" is easily proven wrong by any number of players who choose a different feat (e.g. multiclassing, Bloodline, or Elemental Empowerment) and still have an effective, powerful, and fun character.

For example, it's easy to show that Enlarge Spell is much, much better than Expertise for any build that has sufficient wisdom and numerous area effect spells (which, of course, does not mean "everyone"). Targeting two enemies at a 70% chance each gives us 1.4 hits on average. Using Expertise to increase the chance to 75% gives us 1.5 hits on average, which is a 7% increase. Adding Enlarge Spell instead to target three enemies gives us 2.1 hits on average, which is a 50% increase. That's a pretty hefty difference right there, and in such a build you can easily justify delaying Expertise until level 15 or so.

[Surrealistik]

No, it is a wild exaggeration. 4E intentionally does not have a single best playstyle, and an option considered "mandatory" by one playstyle can easily be considered "mediocre" by another.

This is just wrong. Please consult the char op guides for most classes in the game; Versatile Expertise is gold to sky blue, and almost universally considered a mandatory/high priority feat for most builds in the game. Furthermore it is almost exclusively taken prior to Paragon; delaying taking it until mid Paragon is just completely silly for the vast majority of builds.

The notion that "all members of <class> must take <feat> immediately" is easily proven wrong by any number of players who choose a different feat (e.g. multiclassing, Bloodline, or Elemental Empowerment) and still have an effective, powerful, and fun character.

Sure, they can take other feats, some of which are indeed legitimately competitive choices, but in most cases, they won't be as well off.

For example, it's easy to show that Enlarge Spell is much, much better than Expertise for any build that has sufficient wisdom and numerous area effect spells (which, of course, does not mean "everyone"). Targeting two enemies at a 70% chance each gives us 1.4 hits on average. Using Expertise to increase the chance to 75% gives us 1.5 hits on average, which is a 7% increase. Adding Enlarge Spell instead to target three enemies gives us 2.1 hits on average, which is a 50% increase. That's a pretty hefty difference right there, and in such a build you can easily justify delaying Expertise until level 15 or so.

First off, numerous AoE spells that feature damage rolls.

Second, Enlarge Spell's edge is debatable in that it regularly requires situations where the additional area comes into play; obviously this depends on the campaign. If you're facing fewer, stronger enemies, or tightly clustered enemies, Expertise is generally the better choice. It is nearly always the better choice when it comes to BBEG/solo fights (typically the most difficult ones where you need every edge).

Third, obviously when it comes builds with many specific target powers, and/or AoE powers without damage rolls, Expertise is clearly better.

[Susano-wo]

Well, I have limited experience (1 campaign, and just got to lvl 4.) My experience has benn, though that whether you need that +1 to hit depends a lot on the build. My Barbarian had 19STR after racial and a greataxe. I noticed the lack of hitting quite a bit . Of course, now that we've gotten to 4th, and I've been able to buy a magic weapon...and get Expertise..I'm already noticeing that I hit much more, and am much more effevtive than if I took an extra damage feat. Granted, this is with a Plus 4 to my hit from last level, all told, but I would have taken expertise even if the others hadn't gone up too.
And if it keeps up, and I can afford the -2 to hit, I'll take power attack at 6th.

Our Warlock, however, does just fine, and I'm pretty sure the player has taken feats basically based on "which makes my darkspiral aura better/ does more eldritch blast stuff." And the character hits all the freakin time, thanks to maxing CHA, and the ever handy "CHA vs. Reflex" of Eldritch Blast. So really, the Expertise would be far less valuable than extra capabilities or even some extra damage.

[Surrealistik]

+ to hit is definitely more valuable for some classes than others, and can be less powerful than damage bonuses for strikers early in heroic depending on their output; the higher the total damage output, the more relevant that 5% becomes, and of course, the less your total damage output the less relevant it becomes.

For example, controllers with non-damaging effects, particularly powers with no miss effect will almost certainly want higher accuracy so their crucial, encounter changing immobilize/daze/slow is sure to hit.

A striker however, concerned purely with optimizing damage output might run the numbers and find that the average 0.75 bonus to his 15 average damage at-will attack for example is obviously inferior to the +1 damage bonus he can get from a feat like weapon focus.

On the otherhand, the same striker, if optimized, and doubly so if his attacks also deliver strong non-damaging effects, will almost surely discover from mid to late heroic that the +1 bonus to attack rolls outstrips any feat derived damage bonus.

[Kurald Galain]

Well, I have limited experience (1 campaign, and just got to lvl 4.) My experience has benn, though that whether you need that +1 to hit depends a lot on the build.

Well said. Anything in 4E has several alternatives: that's part of the charm of the system.

[Shatteredtower]

If you must take Expertise feats, see if you are permitted the ones from the Essentials books, which suggest a lack of designer faith in the blue to gold claims for the original Expertise line. Light Blade Expertise is kind to many rogues, and Staff Expertise is useful on the occasion that some enemy can get close to your wizard.

Then again, your DM might feel Essentials materials should stay in Essentials. Never hurts to ask.

[tahu88810]

Ok, cool. Thanks for the advice everyone.
I decided to make a Revenant Assassin that focuses heavily on stacking shrouds while making use of the revenant's special ability.

[WitchSlayer]

Yeah, optimization is different in 4e. While you CAN optimize you won't be THAT far ahead of someone who doesn't optimize as much.

[valadil]

You'll make a reasonably competent character if all you do is look at the class handbook on the charop boards and pick blue or higher powers.

However you won't end up with interesting tricks and shenanigans. The most powerful characters I've seen have always had cool tricks up their sleeves that would not have happened had they not planned that way. Relying on taking sky blue powers or only ever taking what the builder tells you you can take will result in a character who lacks cool tricks.

[Surrealistik]

Yeah, optimization is different in 4e. While you CAN optimize you won't be THAT far ahead of someone who doesn't optimize as much.

That's true maybe for mid to late Heroic; beyond that, the difference is striking.

Well said. Anything in 4E has several alternatives: that's part of the charm of the system.

The problem is with respect to essentially universal feat taxes, those alternatives more often than not simply aren't as good.

With respect to Expertise feats, if they're not must haves in early Heroic, they are by mid to late assuming optimization, regardless of your role and class in the vast majority of cases.

[Kurald Galain]

The most powerful characters I've seen have always had cool tricks up their sleeves that would not have happened had they not planned that way. Relying on taking sky blue powers or only ever taking what the builder tells you you can take will result in a character who lacks cool tricks.

Could you enlighten us what cool tricks you've seen up characters' sleeves?


Here's one I've used: carry a Nail of Sealing with you. It is a nail (obviously) that, as a standard action, can be pushed into a door and will magically lock it down. Great to stop pursuers, or to prevent enemies from fleeing.

[Tiki Snakes]

Surrealistic; From what you are saying, (that you must take a +1 to hit power and you must take it soon) would it follow that you should never play a character with a 16 in their prime ability score, then?

Because a 16, +3 to hit character is losing two feats worth of accuracy and damage in comparison to one who puts an 18 in one of their racial +2 stat.

Or can a 20, +5 to hit character take other feats because he has already gotten the required +2 over the previous character?

Personally, when people talk about the various to-hit feats being feat-taxes and so on, I can't help but feel that there is more philosophy at work than actual logic.


Secondly; I'm not sure I have many Tricks to share, but the Nail does sound pretty handy. You could possibly acheive something similar with the use of perfectly mundane items. Pitons I think are the ones, simple climbing-spike things. Wedged into the door/frame properly, they should help keep it closed, at least long enough for you to have some additional warning.

[Kurald Galain]

Surrealistic; From what you are saying, (that you must take a +1 to hit power and you must take it soon) would it follow that you should never play a character with a 16 in their prime ability score, then?

It means that the only character worth playing at level 1 is a human rogue with 20 dex, a dagger, two accuracy-boosting feats, and the Heroic Effort power from 4.4

[Surrealistik]

Surrealistic; From what you are saying, (that you must take a +1 to hit power and you must take it soon) would it follow that you should never play a character with a 16 in their prime ability score, then?

Because a 16, +3 to hit character is losing two feats worth of accuracy and damage in comparison to one who puts an 18 in one of their racial +2 stat.

Or can a 20, +5 to hit character take other feats because he has already gotten the required +2 over the previous character?

Depends on the build. As I've said, there are certain, comparatively few builds where secondary ability scores are worth emphasizing, or a broader stat distribution is required (typically because of feat prerequisites). More often than not though, specialization is best.

That said, the attack bonus feats typically become even more important for those builds detracting from their primary ability score. As a rule the higher your character's accuracy, the better, and this is true even in the case of specialists, and remains true even for more unusual builds that have more evenly distributed stats after all necessary sacrifices have been made.

Personally, when people talk about the various to-hit feats being feat-taxes and so on, I can't help but feel that there is more philosophy at work than actual logic.

It really isn't philosophy; logic is certainly the underlying force to that position, so long as the caveat is recognized that there _are_ a few builds where sacrifices to accuracy are well worth what they bring. That said, essentially far more often than not, accuracy boosters are top picks, and they are thus feat taxes in every practical sense.

[Nu]

This is just wrong. Please consult the char op guides for most classes in the game; Versatile Expertise is gold to sky blue, and almost universally considered a mandatory/high priority feat for most builds in the game. Furthermore it is almost exclusively taken prior to Paragon; delaying taking it until mid Paragon is just completely silly for the vast majority of builds.

You know, this kind of annoys me, because it says that people just look at the power ratings in guides and don't actually read what the guides SAY about the feats.

Yes, Expertise is generally regarded as a feat tax and mandatory feat, but the guides often include the caveat that it's perfectly fine to hold off on it until level 4 or 6. It does not have to be one of your first two or three feats.

[valadil]

Could you enlighten us what cool tricks you've seen up characters' sleeves?

I'll have to ask around. I have trouble remembering the names of abilities I've only seen once or twice.

[Tiki Snakes]

My point is, that if it's pheasable to play with a main stat from 16 to 20 at level 1, it really can't be THAT necessary for every character to take a feat that gives +1 to hit.

If a 16 stat and 20 stat character can both exist in the same party then you can't really say that all characters MUST take the +1 to hit feat. Therefor, not all characters need it. And if not all characters need it, it's not exactly a universal feat tax, is it?

Surely it's only a mandatory feat when you start with the philosophical position that because +to hit is good, it should be taken at every opportunity.

If I can play a character who is acceptable with a 16 at level one, then surely it follows that I could play a character that took something else instead of the expertise, because if for example he starts with a 20, he'll still be ahead of the first character.

[Thajocoth]

Revenant Assassin Tips:

There's an Assassin only feat that lets you ignore Poison Resistance and Immunity. Mordant Weapon lets all your damage be poison. There are other Assassin feats that boost poison damage. You now deal more damage and cannot have any of it resisted.

Another tip: Shadow Step is amazingly awesome. Feat: Mark of Passage, I think it was, increases the distance you can teleport by 1, which increases your Shadow Step. This is an excellent choice for any Assassin!

Also, what race was the Revenant before? You can take feats from that race. When I made a Revenant Assassin (lvl 10), I went with Tiefling. I took the feat to be able to use the Tiefling racial encounter power, and then the feat to replace that with Diabolic Transformation 1/day. That was quite awesome. I'm sure there are many other awesome possibilities from other races though.

Here's the build I used. You can ask me why I made any choice I made and I'll explain it:

Spoiler

Show

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Elathan, level 10
Revenant, Assassin
Guild Training: Bleak Disciple
Choose your Race in Life: Tiefling
Background: Wandering Mercenary (Wandering Mercenary Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 18, Dex 22, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 8.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 14, Dex 18, Int 10, Wis 11, Cha 8.


AC: 26 Fort: 23 Reflex: 25 Will: 19
HP: 64 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 16

TRAINED SKILLS
Stealth +16, Acrobatics +16, Endurance +16, Thievery +16, Perception +10

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +5, Bluff +4, Diplomacy +4, Dungeoneering +5, Heal +5, History +5, Insight +5, Intimidate +6, Nature +5, Religion +5, Streetwise +4, Athletics +5

FEATS
Level 1: Tiefling Soul
Level 2: Diabolic Soul
Level 4: Killer's Insight
Level 6: Venom Hand Killer
Level 8: Mark of Passage
Level 10: Focused Expertise (Longsword)

POWERS
Assassin at-will 1: Leaping Shade
Assassin at-will 1: Inescapable Blade
Assassin encounter 1: Smothering Shadow
Assassin daily 1: Targeted for Death
Assassin utility 2: Shadowed Legion
Assassin encounter 3: Inescapable Shadow
Assassin daily 5: Twilight Assassin
Assassin utility 6: Slithering Shadow
Assassin encounter 7: Shadow Jack
Assassin daily 9: Black Garrote
Assassin utility 10: Seeker of Shadow

ITEMS
Mordant Longsword +2, Light Shield, Counterstrike Leather Armor +2, Amulet of Protection +3, Belt of Raging Endurance (heroic tier), Adventurer's Kit, Climber's Kit, Fine Clothing, Footpads, Glass Cutter, Thieves' Tools, Circlet of Second Chances (heroic tier), Camouflaged Clothing
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

This was a while back... There are more options available to you now, and there might be a lot more you can do with it.

[Surrealistik]

You know, this kind of annoys me, because it says that people just look at the power ratings in guides and don't actually read what the guides SAY about the feats.

Yes, Expertise is generally regarded as a feat tax and mandatory feat, but the guides often include the caveat that it's perfectly fine to hold off on it until level 4 or 6. It does not have to be one of your first two or three feats.

I actually did state that certain builds could afford to hold off on it to mid-late Heroic.

My point is, that if it's pheasable to play with a main stat from 16 to 20 at level 1, it really can't be THAT necessary for every character to take a feat that gives +1 to hit.

If a 16 stat and 20 stat character can both exist in the same party then you can't really say that all characters MUST take the +1 to hit feat. Therefor, not all characters need it. And if not all characters need it, it's not exactly a universal feat tax, is it?

Surely it's only a mandatory feat when you start with the philosophical position that because +to hit is good, it should be taken at every opportunity.

If I can play a character who is acceptable with a 16 at level one, then surely it follows that I could play a character that took something else instead of the expertise, because if for example he starts with a 20, he'll still be ahead of the first character.

Complete oversimplification. The reason why certain (optimized) builds start out with a 16 primary is almost always because there is some huge payoff at the end of a usually long tunnel that makes the painful sacrifice worth it. Until their gimmick is realized, they do suffer for the decision and definitely underperform their attack maxed colleagues. Unless you're aiming for the realization of such a powerful gimmick and you must shaft your accuracy to do so, neglecting its advancement is a terrible idea; that is not at all philosophical so much as factual.

Further, the definition of 'mandatory' as it is commonly known in char op is not quite literal; it is essentially an option that is materially better than virtually all alternatives, such that it is almost always the best choice assuming you wish to optimize your character (barring of course other feat taxes).

[nightwyrm]

Re expertise feats.

They're nice but not critical for levels 1-14, but once you get to lv 15 or 25 where the bonus becomes +2 and +3, there's really no other feat that compares.