New character needed.

[Gnaeus]

My Dread Necro just got obliterated. So I can make a new character. Party contains a Swift Hunter 9, Cleric/Swordsage/Chameleon 10 (total, not 10th level Chameleon), Daring Outlaw Chain Tripper 10. All are fairly optimized for characters of those classes.

36 point buy. Entering at level 9. LA buyoff. Looking at approximately tier 3 power level. The DM and I agreed that I could make a Tier 1 or 2, but only if I watered it down with LA and or dips or a weak PRC so as to not blow the tier 3s out of the water. I think all official 3.5 books are available. Party alignment is roughly neutral, leaning towards chaotic and evil.

Any suggestions?

[Eldariel]

Beguiler? Seems like that wouldn't really step on anyone's toes and would give you a different flair of arcane magic. Psion or some such could also work.

[Lysander]

How about Warlock? Not too powerful, but fun and flashy. And chaotic evil is what they do best.

[Petrocorus]

What kind of character do you want to play? Caster? Gish? Face? Sneaky? Other?

[Amphetryon]

Fey-Touched Killoren Sorcerer 6/Wild Soul 2.

[Starbuck_II]

My Dread Necro just got obliterated. So I can make a new character. Party contains a Swift Hunter 9, Cleric/Swordsage/Chameleon 10 (total, not 10th level Chameleon), Daring Outlaw Chain Tripper 10. All are fairly optimized for characters of those classes.

36 point buy. Entering at level 9. LA buyoff. Looking at approximately tier 3 power level. The DM and I agreed that I could make a Tier 1 or 2, but only if I watered it down with LA and or dips or a weak PRC so as to not blow the tier 3s out of the water. I think all official 3.5 books are available. Party alignment is roughly neutral, leaning towards chaotic and evil.

Any suggestions?

Duskblade 5/Fiend Blooded 5.
There are alot of good necro, illusion, Enchantment spells that Fiend Blooded can add (remember you choose the spell list it is gained from).
Go dumbster diving from Prc lists (they usually have decent spells at lower levels).

Warmage 6/Prc Bard2/Lyric Thaumaturge2 take Melodic Casting. Gain gained bardic music and bard spells.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

For a melee character, I'd start with Wild Shape Ranger 5/ Master of Many Forms 4, and take the form of a Cave Troll for most fights until you get huge shapes. Go something like WSR 5/ MoMF 7/ Warshaper 4/ Crusader 1/ MoMF 3. Get Power Attack, Combat Reflexes, Alertness, Leap Attack, Frozen Wild Shape, Robilar's Gambit, open feat at 15, and Defensive Sweep. Take Thicket of Blades, and use the form of a 12-headed Cryohydra to get 12-bite AoOs. Possibly grab that Crusader level earlier to get Extra Granted Maneuver at 15. Get Armbands of Might and add +Dex and +Armor as per MIC with a Wilding Clasp, and a Monk's Belt with a Wilding Clasp. Some 1st level Pearls of Power tucked into your clasped belt so they don't meld when you shape would be handy for Rhino's Rush. Use the Distracting Attack ACF in PH2. This is a solid Tier 3 which would probably be almost a Tier 2 with the prestige classes. If the Swift Hunter is melee you should probably make some sort of caster, but if he's an archer I'd go with this one.


Beguiler with a dip into Mindbender is a great choice, and could really help out the party with buffs and debuffs. Be sure to get Versatile Spellcaster and whatever else you'll need to get early access to the next level of spells. For your Expanded Knowledge I'd get Ray of Stupidity, Shadow Form, Greater Shadow Conjuration, Greater Shadow Evocation, and Superior Invisibility. Obtain Familiar and Improved Familiar for an Imp or Quasit would be fun.


If the party needs more healing along with casting, maybe go with a Psion (Egoist) 6/ Sangehirn 3 starting out, so you could use some healing/fixing spells on other party members. Note that when you gain powers known via levels in that prestige class you have a very limited list, so put more Psion levels in there depending on what powers you want to learn at certain levels. Consider using the Egoist ACFs as well, maybe if you get the Life mantle you can pick from those powers when gaining a Sangehirn level.

[Gnaeus]

Beguiler? Seems like that wouldn't really step on anyone's toes and would give you a different flair of arcane magic. Psion or some such could also work.

Maybe. I love the beguiler, but it is so close to Dread Necro that I hesitate.

What kind of character do you want to play? Caster? Gish? Face? Sneaky? Other?

Not 100% sure. At least some casting or casting like substitute is probably required, since all our casting needs are currently being covered by the chameleon, and he doesn't have a huge # of spells per day (at the moment, he usually casts a full slate of day long divine spells, then turns arcane, but that means not many spells per encounter

Fey-Touched Killoren Sorcerer 6/Wild Soul 2.

Interesting. Wild soul has a lot of flavor, and gives up a caster level, which might actually help me get it into play. I will study this one.

Duskblade 5/Fiend Blooded 5.
There are alot of good necro, illusion, Enchantment spells that Fiend Blooded can add (remember you choose the spell list it is gained from).
Go dumbster diving from Prc lists (they usually have decent spells at lower levels).

The dread necro had just taken fiend blooded levels, and was all fiendish in background. So probably too close to last character.

Warmage 6/Prc Bard2/Lyric Thaumaturge2 take Melodic Casting. Gain gained bardic music and bard spells.

Another option I hadn't considered. Thanks.

For a melee character, I'd start with Wild Shape Ranger 5/ Master of Many Forms 4, and take the form of a Cave Troll for most fights until you get huge shapes. Go something like WSR 5/ MoMF 7/ Warshaper 4/ Crusader 1/ MoMF 3.

I think Polymorph nerfs might kill this one. I'd have to check the houserules.

Beguiler with a dip into Mindbender is a great choice, and could really help out the party with buffs and debuffs. Be sure to get Versatile Spellcaster and whatever else you'll need to get early access to the next level of spells.

Especially with the Imp familiar, this may be too close to my last character.

If the party needs more healing along with casting, maybe go with a Psion (Egoist) 6/ Sangehirn 3 starting out, so you could use some healing/fixing spells on other party members. Note that when you gain powers known via levels in that prestige class you have a very limited list, so put more Psion levels in there depending on what powers you want to learn at certain levels. Consider using the Egoist ACFs as well, maybe if you get the Life mantle you can pick from those powers when gaining a Sangehirn level.

The only Psis I've ever made were Psionic Warriors. What book is Sangehirn in?

[Petrocorus]

Not 100% sure. At least some casting or casting like substitute is probably required, since all our casting needs are currently being covered by the chameleon, and he doesn't have a huge # of spells per day (at the moment, he usually casts a full slate of day long divine spells, then turns arcane, but that means not many spells per encounter

You can try the Sorcadin:
Paladin 2/Sorc 4/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Sacred Exorcist 8
BAB +16 CL 18 Fort +9 / Ref +4 / Will +16 Skill pt: 46
One of the most common gish build.

The Bardadin:
Bard 2 / Paladin of Freedom 2 / Bard 2 / Lyric Thaumaturge 4 / Sublime Chord 2 / Spellsword 1/ Abj. Champion 3 / Unseen Seer 4
BAB +16 CL 18 Fort +9 / Ref +10 / Will +20 Skill pt: 102
A lesser gish, but a good buffer, and an excellent face and some skill monkey abilities. There is a feat tax, Extra Music, for qualifying to lyric thaumaturge (added to the normally required Melodic Casting).

Th casting Bard:
Bard 6 / Lyric Thaumatuge 4 / Sublime Chord 2 / Unseen Seer 8
BAB +14 CL 20 Fort +7 / Ref +11 / Will +18 Skill pt: 126
A perfect face and a skill monkey. No need for Extra Music.
Both Bard build can become an Urban Tracker.

Fey-Touched Killoren Sorcerer 6/Wild Soul 2.

Where can i find the Fey-touched template?

How about Warlock? Not too powerful, but fun and flashy. And chaotic evil is what they do best.

I've heard there are some good gish builds with Warlock out there.
Any link?

Warmage 6/Prc Bard2/Lyric Thaumaturge2 take Melodic Casting. Gain gained bardic music and bard spells.

The requirement for Lyric Thaumaturge are a bit tough. Bardic Music 5/day and Perform 9 ranks. But a very good combo if the DM allow to access to the Bard spell list.

[Kylarra]

Dragonfire adept would be pretty cool, pick invocations to support the party and take entangling breath and then do whatever.

[Amphetryon]

Fey-Touched as a savage progression.

Fey-Toched as LA +1.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I think Polymorph nerfs might kill this one. I'd have to check the houserules.

Wild Shape doesn't work according to Polymorph, it uses Alternate Form rules post errata. If Polymorph and Alter Self don't even exist in the game, Alternate Form and Wild Shape will still function unhindered.

Especially with the Imp familiar, this may be too close to my last character.

A Ghostly Visage is the best familiar to get with a Dread Necromancer, both numerically and IMO in flavor. It's on their exclusive list after all. Regardless, if this is extremely close to your last character then go ahead and skip it.

The only Psis I've ever made were Psionic Warriors. What book is Sangehirn in?

It's on the WotC website, where at least half of the 3.5 psionic content is located. I gave you a link in the sentence you quoted but here's another one so you won't have to scroll up. Psion can be extremely fun, just be sure to pick up Energy Stun, and it's not a bad idea to take Expanded Knowledge for Energy Missile.

[Gabe the Bard]

I'm partial to bards as well. You could try one that has Doomspeak from Champions of Ruin (target gets -10 penalty to everything). You can debuff the enemy by making him feel bad about himself. And you can dip into Dread Pirate to get ranks in Intimidate (a prerequisite for Doomspeak).