Druids, Wild Shape and Pathfinder

[Grommen]

What the hell happened people?

Has to be some of the worst worded and open ended set of abilities I've ever seen. I really like Pathfinder too, but they dropped the ball on this one.

So what exactly does "Assume the form" mean? If I assume that his gear does not work, he gets hosed. Does the gear even travel with him? Does the natural armor stack with the base critters natural armor? Hell does Barkskin stack? If I understand the stacking rules I have to say no.

When they "Assume the form" do they get the creatures natural attacks? The spells clearly state that if the base animal has certain special abilities (IE grab) that the caster/druid gets them. Makes sense that the druid gains the attack form that the grab is based on, but the spell does not state one way or the other. Just "Assumes the form".

Half that crap is so ambiguous you can argue both ways.

Then the Beast Shape spells go on to entail that they can assume "Large or Huge" versions of a creature. Now when you take a base monster and change their size they gain or loose attack bonus. If I read the spell literally they don't do this! gaaaa. And off the top of my head the STR and DEX adjustments are not consistent with the beatary and changing sizes.

I'm gonna have to house rule all this crap or go back to the equally messed up 3.5 rules.

O ya and the final nail in the coffin. Beast Shape, Elemental body, and Plant Shape are wizard only spells, so wile the druid can use some of them, they can't use all of them.

I'm gonna get out the big hammer for all this sillyness.

Trying to help a player out with his new druid and I'm starting to think that shape changing is a really bad idea. His pet rocks though.

Ok ranting off. I feel better now.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

So what exactly does "Assume the form" mean?

What one would expect it to mean. You become the creature.

If I assume that his gear does not work, he gets hosed. Does the gear even travel with him? Does the natural armor stack with the base critters natural armor? Hell does Barkskin stack? If I understand the stacking rules I have to say no.

When they "Assume the form" do they get the creatures natural attacks? The spells clearly state that if the base animal has certain special abilities (IE grab) that the caster/druid gets them. Makes sense that the druid gains the attack form that the grab is based on, but the spell does not state one way or the other. Just "Assumes the form".

You might want to look at the greater rules for the polymorph subschool, as they answer pretty much all those questions.

Then the Beast Shape spells go on to entail that they can assume "Large or Huge" versions of a creature.

I seem to be missing where it says that.

O ya and the final nail in the coffin. Beast Shape, Elemental body, and Plant Shape are wizard only spells, so wile the druid can use some of them, they can't use all of them.

Huh? All versions of those spells are eventually granted by wild shape.

[Runeclaw]

What the hell happened people?

Has to be some of the worst worded and open ended set of abilities I've ever seen. I really like Pathfinder too, but they dropped the ball on this one.

Actually, its all pretty clear. As Shhalahr said, check the general Polymorph rules section.

If I assume that his gear does not work, he gets hosed. Does the gear even travel with him?

Gear does travel with him and anything with a continuous effect, other than Armor Bonus, continues to work. Activated effects cannot be activated.

Does the natural armor stack with the base critters natural armor? Hell does Barkskin stack? If I understand the stacking rules I have to say no.

The character gets the Natural Armor specified by the spell, regardless of the actual creature's Natural Armor. Barkskin, as an Enhancement Bonus to Natural Armor, does stack.

When they "Assume the form" do they get the creatures natural attacks?

Yes. This is again mentioned in the Polymorph rules.

Then the Beast Shape spells go on to entail that they can assume "Large or Huge" versions of a creature.

No, you can assume the form of Large or Huge creatures, with the right spell, but not different sized versions of creatures.

O ya and the final nail in the coffin. Beast Shape, Elemental body, and Plant Shape are wizard only spells, so wile the druid can use some of them, they can't use all of them.

Druids do not get some of those as spells, but can use the equivalent through their Wildshape power (which is better anyway).

Trying to help a player out with his new druid and I'm starting to think that shape changing is a really bad idea. His pet rocks though

It is (intentionally, one presumes) not nearly as powerful an option as it was in 3.5 - mostly due to receiving flat bonuses rather than just getting the straight ability scores. Meaning that if you want to be a wild-shaped melee fighter, you need good Strength, etc, to start with. With my Pathfinder Druid, I've found that the ability score bonuses do not make me significantly better in combat than I would be in human from using a magical weapon. But it continues to be fantastic for utility and transport, which arguably is more what the power was intended for all along. And its not a bad combat option - it just isn't always clearly better.

[Starbuck_II]

What the hell happened people?

Has to be some of the worst worded and open ended set of abilities I've ever seen. I really like Pathfinder too, but they dropped the ball on this one.

So what exactly does "Assume the form" mean? If I assume that his gear does not work, he gets hosed. Does the gear even travel with him? Does the natural armor stack with the base critters natural armor? Hell does Barkskin stack? If I understand the stacking rules I have to say no.

When they "Assume the form" do they get the creatures natural attacks? The spells clearly state that if the base animal has certain special abilities (IE grab) that the caster/druid gets them. Makes sense that the druid gains the attack form that the grab is based on, but the spell does not state one way or the other. Just "Assumes the form".

Did you read the polymorph section of Pathfinder?
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magic.html

Yes, the magic section clarifies alot.

[Grommen]

Their is a Polymorph section? Hyrm. This explains alot. I shale check this.

[Grommen]

All they had to do was hyper link the word "Polymorph" to page 211, or cited it in the book. I knew I was missing something. Kool. I had assumed correctly on a great many things.

I hate new editions sometimes.

Thanks for pointing all that out to me. You are great peoples. No mater what someone else says.

[Starbuck_II]

Agree completely about them needing to link the spells with section, I only know about this because i wasa cuising the Pathfinding boards and this question came up.
So I know they left 1/2 the information in another place.

[Grommen]

Agree completely about them needing to link the spells with section, I only know about this because i wasa cuising the Pathfinding boards and this question came up.
So I know they left 1/2 the information in another place.

Still not as bad as Shadowrun books. The rule for shooting something might lie in the Armor section of the gear chapter. 4th Edition Shadowrun looks better, but some of the 2nd and 3rd we just kinda stood in shock and awe when we found a new rule.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Agree completely about them needing to link the spells with section, I only know about this because i wasa cuising the Pathfinding boards and this question came up.

Well, sure, the website does have a link. But even without the link, when you see a subschool name, you should know there is a description of what that subschool means. Unlike most of the basic descriptors (i.e. fire, cold, psionic), subschools tend to have effects beyond simple classification.