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2010-09-30, 08:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
Class for this idea? Or have I finally found something impossible to stat?
I've always had a sort of character in mind. Small size (gnome maybe), maybe not the strongest, but focuses on well-targeted strikes for special attacks such as disarm and trip. Primarily a dex-based build rather than a strength based.
Any suggestions on how to stat this in 3.5?Last edited by WarKitty; 2010-09-30 at 08:54 AM.
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2010-09-30, 08:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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Re: Class for this idea?
If you want someone small who focuses on disarms and trips you probably would do better with Pathfinder than 3.5. In 3.5 the bonuses for size are just enormous and nigh impossible to overcome, especially if you aren't heavily pumping strength at every opportunity. If you want to focus on combat that requires to to be smaller than your opponent to to fun things to them there are feats like Confound the Big Folk from Races of the Wild that sorta fit what you're asking for.
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2010-09-30, 08:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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2010-09-30, 08:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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Re: Class for this idea?
The bonuses for size are smaller though you still get screwed because they rely on strength as well. Additionally special maneuvers in Pathfinder are explictly supposed to be weaker than in 3.5. If you want the absolute best you can get, grab Pathfinder size bonuses and the 3.5 feats. Even with that though your character will not be very effective at tripping and disarming.
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2010-09-30, 08:49 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
Re: Class for this idea?
So have I managed to find the archetype that you absolutely cannot stat in D&D? Pity - I've always had a fondness for a dexterity based warrior, they get shafted pretty badly.
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2010-09-30, 08:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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Re: Class for this idea?
Rereading Races of the Wild, if you can find a way to be two size categories smaller than your opponents you can use Confound the Big Folk to trip and hide in their square. It doesn't really come together until level nineish and will require you to use a web-enhancement Kobold or find a way to magically shrink yourself if you want to use it against medium opponents.
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2010-09-30, 08:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
Re: Class for this idea? Or have I finally found something impossible to stat?
This is the sort of thing that the Setting Sun school for martial adepts is supposed to help you realize. I'm not sure how well it does the job, though.
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2010-09-30, 09:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Fort Wayne
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Re: Class for this idea? Or have I finally found something impossible to stat?
Last edited by Caliphbubba; 2010-09-30 at 09:11 AM.
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2010-09-30, 10:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2008
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- Xin-Shalast
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Re: Class for this idea? Or have I finally found something impossible to stat?
+4 Imp. Trip, +4 stance -4 size. +DEX. +2 weapon bonus. +X Weapon Property.
You can only trip an opponent who is one size category larger than you, the same size, or smaller.
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2010-09-30, 10:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Fort Wayne
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Re: Class for this idea? Or have I finally found something impossible to stat?
I wonder if there is a way to get Powerful Build on a small character. That'd get you up to large, and I think would get rid of the penatly for being small in the first place.
Psionic Expansion is the usual way of being able to trip bigger stuff I think. That sort of against the spirit of this though.
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2010-09-30, 10:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
Re: Class for this idea? Or have I finally found something impossible to stat?
you can do it in dnd as others have pointed its just not optimal
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2010-09-30, 10:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
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Re: Class for this idea? Or have I finally found something impossible to stat?
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2010-09-30, 10:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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2010-09-30, 10:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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- Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
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2010-09-30, 11:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
Re: Class for this idea? Or have I finally found something impossible to stat?
Sounds like the key problem is WoTC seems to have conceptualized "trip" as "shove till they fall over." I'm used to "trip" as "hit just the right spot behind the knee and anything will fall over."
And yes I was the karate school trip attack person at 5 feet and 100 pounds.Last edited by WarKitty; 2010-09-30 at 11:02 AM.
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2010-09-30, 11:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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- Elsewhen
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Re: Class for this idea? Or have I finally found something impossible to stat?
Whisper Gnome + Factotum + Swordsage
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2010-09-30, 11:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2009
Re: Class for this idea? Or have I finally found something impossible to stat?
Funny, the gnomes in my homebrew setting have Powerful Build. You should come play with me!
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2010-09-30, 11:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2006
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- Poland
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Re: Class for this idea? Or have I finally found something impossible to stat?
THat's not really problem. Yes, you can hit someone like that, but really only when he really don't know what he's doing. And still there would be some cap to this.
And as they made weapons like halberd with "trip" ability, they clearly had hooking someone down in mind.
No matter if you're trying to double or single leg someone, do some Judo trip, "football" tackle, slam, or other trip, the bigger and stronger you are, the easier you you'll achieve it, your skill is completely different matter.
So there's nothing particularly wrong with WotC concept here.Avatar by KwarkpuddingThe subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs—I was a man before I was a king.
Whoever makes shoddy beer, shall be thrown into manure - town law from Gdańsk, XIth century.
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2010-09-30, 11:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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2010-09-30, 11:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2010
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- Kitchener/Waterloo
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Re: Class for this idea? Or have I finally found something impossible to stat?
While it may not explicitly use trip/disarm, if you google The Other Killer Gnome you'll find a pretty interesting way to use small size to fight tactically.
Lord Raziere herd I like Blasphemy, so Urpriest Exalted as a Malefactor
Meet My Monstrous Guide to Monsters. Everything you absolutely need to know about Monsters and never thought you needed to ask.
Trophy!
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2010-09-30, 11:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2006
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- Poland
- Gender
Re: Class for this idea? Or have I finally found something impossible to stat?
Avatar by KwarkpuddingThe subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs—I was a man before I was a king.
Whoever makes shoddy beer, shall be thrown into manure - town law from Gdańsk, XIth century.
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2010-09-30, 11:20 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
Re: Class for this idea? Or have I finally found something impossible to stat?
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2010-09-30, 11:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
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Re: Class for this idea? Or have I finally found something impossible to stat?
Ultimately, you need muscles to be fast. Plenty of strong people aren't fast, but between two people who have both trained for speed, the "stronger" one will be faster.
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2010-09-30, 11:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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- York
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Re: Class for this idea? Or have I finally found something impossible to stat?
I will nth setting sun swordsage. Thats what it's for
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2010-09-30, 11:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2010
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- Fort Wayne
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2010-09-30, 11:54 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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Re: Class for this idea? Or have I finally found something impossible to stat?
Sure, but there's an upper limit to what skill can accomplish. Imagine a kenpo match between a 6-foot, 220 pound adult man and a 3-foot, 40 pound five-year-old child. No matter how skillful the child is, sheer mass issues mean that there's an upper limit on how much he can do to the adult - and tripping him when he knows he's in a fight would be all but impossible.
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2010-09-30, 11:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2006
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- Poland
- Gender
Re: Class for this idea? Or have I finally found something impossible to stat?
Avatar by KwarkpuddingThe subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs—I was a man before I was a king.
Whoever makes shoddy beer, shall be thrown into manure - town law from Gdańsk, XIth century.
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2010-09-30, 12:27 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2010
Re: Class for this idea? Or have I finally found something impossible to stat?
Point taken. I was thinking primarily in opposition to the classic dude in heave armor, although a tumble-and-shank-spellcaster might also be good.
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2010-09-30, 01:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2010
Re: Class for this idea? Or have I finally found something impossible to stat?
redcaps are awesome... the level offset is painful, but they get bonuses to stats at every hit die... +1 dex,str & con if i remember right in addition to natural armor and damage reduction increases every couple levels
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2010-09-30, 01:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010