When players won't fight

[Katana_Geldar]

Last night I was all ready for two great encounters with some really challenging monsters...except they didn't engage. They just ran away from the encounters, and weren't followed because the doors were planular portals.
They miss 1000 xp each and treasure.

Anyone else had this?

[WarKitty]

Why don't they want to fight? Many of my players would rather talk than fight, usually I have to give them a way to talk through.

[Katana_Geldar]

They said they didn't want to die. Particularly when I did 25 damage in one attack.

And there was no way for them to talk their way out of this fight. They were fighting cursed angels (that I specially got minis for) and undead.

[Ravens_cry]

Well, while I am sure it stings to have all that effort go to waste,there is some things you can do. One, you can put the fight elsewhere. Two, there should be natural consequences for their fleeing without dealing with the problem. Is there a reason they were meant to fight these creatures, did they threaten something the players cared about? Don't be vindictive though.

[eataTREE]

Looks like your players think your encounters are on the overtuned side. Perhaps you should pitch them a few softballs to get their confidence back up?

[Raging Gene Ray]

They said they didn't want to die. Particularly when I did 25 damage in one attack.

25 out of how many hit points? If these are level 10+ Warrior-Types, I'd say your players are being cowardly...but the context is important.

Was this a random encounter or an actual monster? If they had no reason to fight this thing, then yes, that could be justified in-character for almost any alignment.

[stenver]

Maybe they prefer the talking side of the game?

Just observe which type of game they prefer and build your games accordingly.
DM must bend the world for players, not the other way around. It never ends well, when it is another way around.

My players used to run away from encounter all the time. Or rather, try to evade them, by persuasion or stealth. Encounters were harmful

Spoiler

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That is, until they got to >level 8 and made hundreds of damages per round and had many buffs all day long. Then they started bullying people around and bloodlust followed them everywhere. They even slaughtered the militia, virtually started controlling half of metropolis city.

[Katana_Geldar]

I'm running 4E Tomb of Horrors, these were scripted encounters that passed on important information...which the players managed to get without fighting as they jumped in and out of the portals.

And yes, they are level 10. *sigh*

[Greenish]

I'm running 4E Tomb of Horrors, these were scripted encounters that passed on important information...

The script is yours to change. You're not there to do what a computer program could do better (run scripted events), you're there to engage the players.

But if they don't want to fight, a premade module might pose quite some difficulties. Specifically, the desire to stay alive doesn't fit very well with Tomb of Horrors.

[Anterean]

Specifically, the desire to stay alive doesn't fit very well with Tomb of Horrors.

utterly and completely off topic :
This is easily the funniest thing I have read all day.

[Katana_Geldar]

They've had bad experiences so far, almost dying a few times. And they have managed to solve one puzzle without triggering the encounter.

The problem is they're right outside the last room, with the boss fight next week. And thats going to be the last session for a while, we're not gaming after a while as people have commitments. So...no consequences, yet.

[Ashram]

Personally, I think this all has to do with the context in which "My players said they don't want to die" was said. If the characters themselves said, "Screw this, I don't wanna die", then while they are cowards, that's completely their choice. However, if the players said, "Screw this, I don't want my character to die" that's some serious metagaming, especially if they ran away frightened from a 25 damage attack.

[MarkusWolfe]

Tomb of Horrors

There's your problem right there. Since the very beginning, that module has turned great men into blithering cowards. If we ignore this newest version (which is much easier to beat) it has only ever been beaten ONCE in the history of all D&D.

But yes your guys were cowards for running away.

[WarKitty]

Personally, I think this all has to do with the context in which "My players said they don't want to die" was said. If the characters themselves said, "Screw this, I don't wanna die", then while they are cowards, that's completely their choice. However, if the players said, "Screw this, I don't want my character to die" that's some serious metagaming, especially if they ran away frightened from a 25 damage attack.

Although if one is informed beforehand that one is playing anything named Tomb of Horrors, it is advisable to bring characters that won't run away.

[Katana_Geldar]

The guy who took the damage was the wizard, who's had two close shaves before.

But I've decided not to go easy on them next week. Its not as if I've been nice so far, but I was considering letting a short rest between enemies in the final encounter. They won't get that now, they need to be used to hard encounters and I'm playing it as scripted.

[Tiki Snakes]

Wait, wait. You are running Tomb of Horrors and you are suprised and annoyed because the players are showing fear?

I really do not think that the appropriate response is to deliberately punish them by ramping the difficulty, that's quite a confrontational move really.

[Soranar]

drop DM fiat on them :

close the portal behind them, no means of escape

have the monsters chase them

have other monsters chase them into that fight

[Katana_Geldar]

Hey, who said I was ramping up the encounter? I'm playing it as written and just not giving them the break I didn't needed.

[Tiki Snakes]

If you had planned on giving them a rest, then you must have identified a need for them to have a rest.

Perhaps I am getting the wrong end of the stick, but the implication I got from the way you phrased things was that because of their actions, you would be running it as higher difficulty than if they had not displeased you. If I am wrong, then my apologies, but that's what I got from your post.

[Lysander]

Hey, fleeing is always a valid tactic. Nothing wrong with showing the better part of valor. If you don't want them to run just make sure the enemy has a way of following them.

[Katana_Geldar]

The enemies can't follow, the planular portals...*grumble grumble*

But they don't always get so lucky. No escape in the next dungeon, or the one after that. They won't let you leave.

[Lysander]

The enemies can't follow, the planular portals...*grumble grumble*

But they don't always get so lucky. No escape in the next dungeon, or the one after that. They won't let you leave.

Why can't enemies enter them? Or make the portals triggered by the enemy's death.

[Katana_Geldar]

They were being clever, should give them a point for that.

The doors were planular portals, and one of them would scout ahead with a rope and communicate through the rope whether the others should follow or pull them back. Consequentally, I never had them all in the rooms with the encounters. Its a little hard to explain without seeing the module.
But I did get to scare them when I sent the wizard's book imp, a ten foot pole with a mouse on the end that the wizard poked through the door and the wizard himself to three different places.

[Arbane]

You know, not every fight needs to be to the death. What's so awful about the PCs running away once in a while, especially if all that's at stake is some GP and XP? There's plenty more where that came from.

It's not a personal insult, it's just the PCs utilizing their vestigial self-preservation instincts.

[Tukka]

However, if the players said, "Screw this, I don't want my character to die" that's some serious metagaming, especially if they ran away frightened from a 25 damage attack.

I don't see why it'd be serious metagaming. Not wanting your character to die is normal. Characters not wanting to die is normal. Fear in the face of an opponent capable of dealing a lot of damage in one shot is normal.

The characters' motivations and the players' motivations here are basically the same. The characters and the players basically have the same information available to them (the players' info is a little more precise is all). It'd say it's mild case of metagaming at best.

[true_shinken]

Sometimes running away should give them the XP anyway...

[jiriku]

You know, not every fight needs to be to the death. What's so awful about the PCs running away once in a while, especially if all that's at stake is some GP and XP? There's plenty more where that came from.

It's not a personal insult, it's just the PCs utilizing their vestigial self-preservation instincts.

QFT

Take it as a compliment. Your players fear you. That is the highest compliment players can ever give a DM.

The most honor my players have ever done me was when they started drawing lots to see who would collect the treasure from an encounter -- with the loser having to go pick it up. They were afraid of the treasure.

Sniff, sniff. Those guys. I just gotta love 'em.

[Katana_Geldar]

Haven't thought of it like that, makes me wonder how it'll go later when there's no way back and the only way out is through the monsters. And compared to the next dungeon, this one is a cakewalk.

And I will give them XP for cleverness, but not nearly as much.

[elonin]

Not sure but I'm guessing that your players are really role playing. I've often wondered why most players consider their characters to be suicidal with the stiff odds they often take. Heroism aside they are supposed to be people too.

BTW there was a comment about only one group getting through Tomb of Horrors. Is that the one in which the group bought a bunch of cattle and used them to set off the traps?

[Greenish]

BTW there was a comment about only one group getting through Tomb of Horrors. Is that the one in which the group bought a bunch of cattle and used them to set off the traps?

That wouldn't be enough. Cattle doesn't tend to stick their appendages to the statue's mouth…