a question on clerics

[big teej]

greetings members of the playground,

for starters, I know I've pestering the lot of you with a lot of "question" threads, but lately, I have been struck with a great amount of inspiration, without a corresponding blessing of information... there are severe gaps in my knowledge

so I come to you all with another question, this time concerning Clerics and healing.


my question is utterly simple
is there a way for a "good" cleric (LG, CG, NG) to cast 'inflict' spells in the same manner that 'evil' clerics can?

if so?
where may I find this rule/variant/feat/whatever

or must I simply ask the DM's permission to play a LG cleric that spontaneously casts inflict


(if anyone is curious as to WHY I need such a variant, I am more than willing to share, its for a character concept that came to me after reading the Book of Vile Darkness)


thanks in advance.

[Lhurgyof]

You could play a Dreaded Necromancy from Heroes of Horror. They get a negative energy touch.

[TheThan]

they can prepare them as normal. but they can't spontaneously cast them. there's not any alignment restrictions on the spell itself.

[big teej]

they can prepare them as normal. but they can't spontaneously cast them. there's not any alignment restrictions on the spell itself.

my understanding is that good clerics spontaneously cast 'cure' spells,
evil clerics spontaneously cast 'inflict' spells
and neutrals get to pick,

I'm asking if there is a way for a GOOD cleric to spontaneously cast INFLICT

because I don't quite subscribe to the idea of a "neutral" knight, but for the concept, I need inflict spells as well..

[HunterOfJello]

The Inflict spells are Necromancy spells, but they aren't [Evil]. So, you can prepare them like any ordinary spell and cast it later in the day. You could also spontaneously replace it with a Cure spell like normal.

~

As far as spontaneously casting Inflict spells. You can't take the feat Spontaneous Wounder since you don't qualify for the "nongood" prerequisite.

You could always take the Destruction domain and then take the Spontaneous Domain Casting alternate class feature from PHB2. The domain has several Inflict spells on it, but not all of them.

[big teej]

at the risk of making this entire thread a moot point, I'm going to ask what I feel is a very stupid question, and one I feel I know the answer too... but the chance DOES exist that I am wrong...


the Bone Template (BOVD)
does not specify an alignment change, merely that you are now dead....ish

would a creature with the bone template follow the normal rules for cure/inflict?

an inflict spell raises its hit points, while a cure spell would harm it.

if this is not the case with this template..... then we can all move along and ignore this

but I figured it did follow those rules, which is why I need the inflict spells

the concept is basically this

Spoiler

Show

a Human knight/cleric with the bone template, the Knight will be the primary class, the cleric levels are ONLY to provide 'linflict' spells so that the party doesn't catch onto the fact that I'm dead....ish. if a Bone template creature can be healed normally, then this is a moot point, as I don't intend to put more levels in cleric than is absolutly necessary. merely enough levels to keep the inflict spells on par with how much healing I might need.

now granted.... following that concept, I suppose merely preparing "inflict only" would work..... and the fact I could also cure my fellows would lend weight to the disguise......

-pensive-

[Claudius Maximus]

Bone creatures are healed by negative energy and harmed by positive energy due to having the undead type.

[awa]

ninja
undead are hurt by cure spells

[Prime32]

The Tomb-Tainted Soul feat lets living creatures react to pos/neg energy like undead. You could ask your DM for a feat with the opposite effect. Or just ask if spells you cast on yourself can be treated differently.

It's kind of hard for a skeletal knight to hide his deadness, though you could try using some kind of Deathless rather than Undead (they're like undead but they tend towards Good and run on positive energy).

Spontaneous inflict doesn't seem like a good idea to me, since your party members will ask you to heal them. There is, however, a feat called Spontaneous Wounder (in Complete Divine I think) which lets you do it a limited number of times per day.


EDIT: Crusader would fit your concept better. They're a knight-like class with healing which isn't based on positive or negative energy.

[Psyx]

Play an Ordained Champion from CoV. Their on-the-fly cures are replaced with cause wound spells.

[Weasel of Doom]

If you're planning on mainly being a knight and just want cleric levels to heal yourself (which is the impression I got) the Dread Necromancer class would be perfect as it allows at will negative energy for unlimited healing IIRC as well as some other cool stuff like rebuke undead.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20060627a

[big teej]

The Tomb-Tainted Soul feat lets living creatures react to pos/neg energy like undead. You could ask your DM for a feat with the opposite effect. Or just ask if spells you cast on yourself can be treated differently.

It's kind of hard for a skeletal knight to hide his deadness, though you could try using some kind of Deathless rather than Undead (they're like undead but they tend towards Good and run on positive energy).

Spontaneous inflict doesn't seem like a good idea to me, since your party members will ask you to heal them. There is, however, a feat called Spontaneous Wounder (in Complete Divine I think) which lets you do it a limited number of times per day.


EDIT: Crusader would fit your concept better. They're a knight-like class with healing which isn't based on positive or negative energy.

what books are these things in?
and please don't use the abreviations like BoVD... I don't know what most of them mean

the reason I figured "prepare inflict, spontaneous cure" would work is because that way I could heal both myself and my life signs - positive party members, and it would cover the fact that I'm dead.

If you're planning on mainly being a knight and just want cleric levels to heal yourself (which is the impression I got) the Dread Necromancer class would be perfect as it allows at will negative energy for unlimited healing IIRC as well as some other cool stuff like rebuke undead.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20060627a

your impression is correct, I want healing so the party can't figure out I'm dead. because..... that would be bad, because I think my players (party members by the time I get to try this) will have the ingrained response that 'should be dead' equates to 'we should fix that'

[Skorj]

what books are these things in?
and please don't use the abreviations like BoVD... I don't know what most of them mean

I bet you'd find this thread to be useful, and not just for knowing what the books are. There's lots of good stuff linked from the stickied post at the top of this forum, actually.

[Kylarra]

Could take the destruction domain along with spontaneous domain casting. Not a hugely optimal way to use your cleric abilities, but you'd get some spontaneous inflicts.

[Scow2]

Crusader is from the Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords.
It is the best Tank Class ever made. Its self-heals, Damage Reduction, and heavy armor easily "compensate" for its D10 HD.

[Lhurgyof]

Crusader is from the Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords.
It is the best Tank Class ever made. Its self-heals, Damage Reduction, and heavy armor easily "compensate" for its D10 HD.

ToB is built at a different power-level than most games run at. I think it'd be important to find out how powerful the people in the party are before he gets his character idea shot down by the DM...

[Prime32]

ToB is built at a different power-level than most games run at.

You're thinking of "the Tomes" (Tome of Fiends, Tome of Necromancy, Dungeonomicon and Races of War), which are unrelated homebrew by Frank & K.

Tome of Battle is middle-of-the-road. There is, however, a lower difference in power between unoptimised and highly optimised - ie. a fighter could either suck horribly or one-shot everything it sees, depending on how it's built, but a ToB class can usually be relied on to be competent whether the player is a novice or expert. This should be a good thing, but depending on your group...

[Lhurgyof]

You're thinking of "the Tomes", which are unrelated homebrew by Frank & K. Tome of Battle is middle-of-the-road.

No, I'm thinking of Tome of Battle...
If they're playing a Blaster Wizard, a healbot, and a fighter, then his character will outshine the party for sure.

[big teej]

for starters, my group DOES NOT optimize, and as far as I'm concerned, we never will.

I don't enjoy that type of play.

so how 'optimal' my build is, is largely irrelevant; at least at this juncture...

I am far and away the most experienced 3.x player in the party (with the possible exception of the paladin player, but I can't swear to whos been at it longer)

I don't optimize, I don't find it fun. my -anything- selection is primarily motivated by "ooooh.... this looks cool" -lightbulb- "CHARACTER IDEA!!! "

so if the sourcebook itself is .... 'high powered' (for lack of a more accurate term) I'm not sure that helps me.

I don't have time to cover everything this time around, but I will next time...
I hope

[Coidzor]

for starters, my group DOES NOT optimize, and as far as I'm concerned, we never will.

I don't enjoy that type of play.

So, you like taking a mix of monk, bard, and sorcerer then?

Then don't claim you don't optimize.

Tome of Battle is contentious, but if he/you have already got a BSF, a heal-gimp, and a blaster wizard party, then he/you would be obligated to be the trap-checker anyway.

As it stands, with work a Crusader could bring enough healing to the party to merely make the lack of divine casting regrettable rather than painful, and would definitely be able to contribute in melee as most clerics do anyway.

Considering the premise of the OP was that of a tanky knight with the ability to heal himself, Crusader is perfect for that role and fluff.

[big teej]

So, you like taking a mix of monk, bard, and sorcerer then?

Then don't claim you don't optimize.
.

when I say 'optimizing' I mean things along the lines of 'thought experiments' and/or
- uberchargers
- codzilla
- batman wizard
- any build that requires like 4 classes by level 10
- etc.

[Prime32]

- any build that requires like 4 classes by level 10

So a guy who shoots people from behind with exploding bolts of energy is cheesy, regardless of how effective he is?
(Wizard/Rogue/Warlock/Eldritch Theurge)

There does not and cannot exist a single class for every concept - 3e's ability to overcome this by mixing classes is one of its greatest strengths.

Optimising means "finding the best way to use the tools you are given to achieve the results you wish". Making a character powerful is not inherent in it, and making a character more powerful than the rest of the party is usually regarded as poor optimisation.

[Gerrtt]

How about the Bone Knight Class? I can't remember what book it's from though...

[Volos]

Spontaneous Wounder from Complete Divine allows you to cast inflct spells like you would cure spells. Swap them out for any other prepared spell. My player is using this feat to good effect.

[Lhurgyof]

So a guy who shoots people from behind with exploding bolts of energy is cheesy, regardless of how effective he is?
(Wizard/Rogue/Warlock/Eldritch Theurge)

There does not and cannot exist a single class for every concept - 3e's ability to overcome this by mixing classes is one of its greatest strengths.

Optimising means "finding the best way to use the tools you are given to achieve the results you wish". Making a character powerful is not inherent in it, and making a character more powerful than the rest of the party is usually regarded as poor optimisation.

I'm pretty sure by that he meant people who dip just for power and no other reason, and end up with builds that use several prestige classes and a couple base classes.

And yes, optimization to a degree is fine, but I think it's safe to say he plays in a low optimization group. So ToB is probably going to seem to powerful to his DM, and thus the DM may say no to his character. And that would not be good, at all.

[Fawsto]

Bone Knight - Eberron: Five Nations;

A Cleric with a full set of abilities related to simply being an Awesome Tank. Imunities Galore. Just enjoy.

But then you might find yourself a DM who might find that a cleric who loses almost nothing (a poor Will save) and gains a d10 hit die and a lot of good class abilities a little too much...