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2011-01-10, 11:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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[3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans) ANSWERED
I have never played under a DM that has allowed starting ability scores to be below ten, as that is the common ability score for a human, straight tens. There are of course other humans with abilities below ten but why would they go out adventuring? Usually my DM says reroll anything below a ten, had this one DM say anything below an 11, this DM says that the rules say to just roll and not stop anything below a ten...
So I ended up with a strength score of 6, strength is the only ability my character will not be using... I looked up what creatures have strength scores this low and found that birds have a strength score of six...
I have the same strength... as a bird?!
Am I unable to carry my own self? Can I not walk? Can I at least crawl?Last edited by felinoel; 2011-01-11 at 01:12 AM. Reason: Topic has been rectified
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2011-01-10, 11:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
Strength is... complicated. In truth a gnome with 18 str is probably not as strong as an Orc with 18 str.
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2011-01-10, 11:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Edmonton, Canada
Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
The 'below 10' thing is definitely a house rule, and I've played characters with one (or more) of the stats below 10.
A human with a strength of 6 can carry 60 pounds, although with a lower movement speed. Get a handy haversack as soon as you can afford it, and you'll be fine.
Oh, and before you go dissing birds' strength:
SpoilerLast edited by Toliudar; 2011-01-10 at 11:18 PM.
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2011-01-10, 11:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
Strength is partialy relative to size. (Check those multipliers for carrying capacity, size makes a HUGE difference)
You can do much more than a bird, because your size is medium.
Compared to other members of your species, you are weak, but unless your STR is reduced to zero, you should be able to function normaly.Avatar by Thormag
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2011-01-10, 11:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
You never have to worry about your weight for carrying capacity, for one.
Also, considering the point-buy system, at lower totals, most characters will probably have at least one stat at the default 8.
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2011-01-10, 11:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
Ten is not common, it's the average. And being the average, it needs scores not only above it, but below it as well.
Player characters, while they should be overall above average (has a total positive Modifier), will have areas where they are above average, but sometimes also have areas below average. Afterall, a character isn't just interesting in their strengths, but also in their weaknesses.Let's Play: Pokemon Leaf Green (Nuzlocke)
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2011-01-11, 12:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
But... this is not GURPS? This is 3.5 DnD where all base stats like these are based off of humans, that is why humans have no racial modifiers? A gnome with 18 strength would be the same as an orc?
Yes I know it is a house rule, I was just stating that the four previous DMs I have had have ruled out anything below ten but how can a human that has the strength of a hawk (sorry, I will clarify as to the bird spoken of in the book since you referenced that image) be able to life himself? If you put 150 pounds on a bird it will not be able to move? That is about how much I made the weight of my character and I cannot make him weigh as much as a hawk.
Are you serious? Where is this in the books? I could have sworn that there were no strength tiers in DnD?
Eight I would have tolerated and not bothered to look up, eight is the lowest I can see any human who would actually go out on an adventure
Indeed, see my above response, but six?! That is just way too low?
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2011-01-11, 12:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- San Jose, CA
Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
Six is just as much as outside the norm as is 15. And you wouldn't gush over how "incredibly powerful" that level 1 fighter with Str 15 is right? Then you should be equally unamazed at Joe the Commoner with Str 6.
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2011-01-11, 12:18 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
Last edited by felinoel; 2011-01-11 at 12:21 AM.
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2011-01-11, 12:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
Body weight does not count against carrying capacity.
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2011-01-11, 12:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2008
Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
Joe the commoner would go out adventureing the same reason Doug the fighter does. Because he wants to, and because he has skills that make him a good adventurer. It doesn't matter how bad he is at arm wrestling when he can throw fireballs at people.
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2011-01-11, 12:26 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
Regardless, realistically speaking, if a human were to have the same strength as a hawk, they would not be able to stand? Where is the rules for what happens when a person's ability score is reduced to one or below? I believe I remember the rule for strength stating that they fall under the weight of their own body... is this correct? I may be misremembering...
This is not a problem with arm wrestling, this is a problem with being unable to moveLast edited by felinoel; 2011-01-11 at 12:26 AM.
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2011-01-11, 12:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
But there is no strength score, other than 0 which would be too low for you to move with. Only the weight of gear is an issue. Even normal clothes don't count when worn.
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2011-01-11, 12:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
Six is a larger number than one, so your argument is invalid. I would, however, agree that a guy with zero strength should not go adventuring, except under extraordinary circumstances.
Last edited by BossMuro; 2011-01-11 at 12:35 AM.
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2011-01-11, 12:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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2011-01-11, 12:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Under a 1st Ed AD&D DMG
Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
I hate DM's like this. They coddle players so much that when a player actually has to use a character with anything resembling a weak point they panic.
As has been said before, strength is relative to size.
Yes, he can carry his own body weight. What he cannot carry is a clone of himself. And frankly, I don't see that as a problem unless he's going all platemail fighter
Once again.
1. Size effects strength regardless of stats.
2. Your own weight does not count as encumbrance. I don't know why you seem so desperate to believe that, but it doesn't
3. No, that is not correct. The only piece of writing that might (might) have inspired that was the notices on what happens at 0 strength.
No, it is not.
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2011-01-11, 12:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
Here you go.
Your strength has to be reduced to 0 for you to collapse.
For sanity's sake, being unable to move due to low strength has been abstracted. "Realism" is not a good thing to always have in RPGs. (Consider HP, for example)
Keep in mind that the average Venerable human has 4 Strength. While they might find many things difficult, they can still definitely walk around.
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2011-01-11, 12:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
But he can move because, as has been said, body weight does not count against encumbrance.
"If you want to determine whether your character’s gear is heavy enough to slow him or her down more than the armor already does, total the weight of all the character’s items, including armor, weapons, and gear. Compare this total to the character’s Strength on Table: Carrying Capacity." [from srd]
Note that it does not mention your character's weight.
Damn, now I want to play a str 0 psion.Last edited by Weasel of Doom; 2011-01-11 at 12:39 AM.
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2011-01-11, 12:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
Might I suggest this might make more sense if you had some sleep?
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2011-01-11, 12:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
My argument was based under the assumption that a person's own weight would be taken into consideration when strength is involved. A kick is a strength based attack, walking means you have to be able to support your own self and since you use your legs makes it a strength check, or so one would think...
No no, I was totally prepared to play a character unable to move, I was going to have my animal companion drag me, I was just surprised that it was actually ruled to be possible...
As has been said before, strength is relative to size.
Once again.
1. Size effects strength regardless of stats.
2. Your own weight does not count as encumbrance. I don't know why you seem so desperate to believe that, but it doesn't
3. No, that is not correct. The only piece of writing that might (might) have inspired that was the notices on what happens at 0 strength
No, it is not.
See above
"If you want to determine whether your character’s gear is heavy enough to slow him or her down more than the armor already does, total the weight of all the character’s items, including armor, weapons, and gear. Compare this total to the character’s Strength on Table: Carrying Capacity." [from srd]
Note that it does not mention your character's weight.
Ha, no this has been an issue on my mind for a while, and as stated by others, this will never make any sense, one just has to roll with itLast edited by felinoel; 2011-01-11 at 12:47 AM.
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2011-01-11, 12:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
Your problem is assuming D&D stats make any kind of sense or are based on any kind of rational assumptions. They do not, and they are not. 10 is the average human score because it's roughly halfway between the two endpoints chosen for the scale. Don't be mislead by the seemingly-'realistic' charts for carrying capacity; pretty much anything related to stats outside maybe the 8-12 range only has functional meaning as a strict game construct. And as a game construct, creatures are not required to 'carry' their own body mass.
Last edited by tyckspoon; 2011-01-11 at 12:53 AM.
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2011-01-11, 12:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
Joe the Commoner wouldn't. But Joeythimus the Wizard who doesn't need strength because he uses his mind to do far more than a 22 strength water orc will? Hell yes he'll go adventuring. Actually, it would be reasonable for Joeythimus to have 6-8 strength- he lived a sedentary lifestyle.
Myself, I almost always make a character with a score below 10. Never intelligence, though, because I don't like playing stupid characters.
Also: I cannot benchpress my own body weight. Not even close. I do not consider this a problem. In fact, I think I'm pretty strong. A character with strength 15 who weighs over 200 lbs cannot lift his own body weight. Again, not a problem.Last edited by Gorgondantess; 2011-01-11 at 12:55 AM.
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2011-01-11, 12:56 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
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2011-01-11, 12:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
Occurred to me too.
Hmm, a telepath 5 for Telepathy (and Mindsight!), then Thrallherd to have people carry you around.
Needs either Ring of Sustenance or the power (or the elan racial), since being spoon-fed by your thrall is a bit demeaning, not to mention the rest…
[Edit]: Or a kineticist with Control Body.Last edited by Greenish; 2011-01-11 at 01:01 AM.
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2011-01-11, 12:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
From the SRD
Bigger and Smaller Creatures
The figures on Table: Carrying Capacity are for Medium bipedal creatures. A larger bipedal creature can carry more weight depending on its size category, as follows: Large ×2, Huge ×4, Gargantuan ×8, Colossal ×16. A smaller creature can carry less weight depending on its size category, as follows: Small ×¾, Tiny ×½, Diminutive ×¼, Fine ×1/8.
Quadrupeds can carry heavier loads than characters can. Instead of the multipliers given above, multiply the value corresponding to the creature’s Strength score from Table: Carrying Capacity by the appropriate modifier, as follows: Fine ×¼, Diminutive ×½, Tiny ×¾, Small ×1, Medium ×1½, Large ×3, Huge ×6, Gargantuan ×12, Colossal ×24.87% of all statistics are made up. If your one of the 38% who know that copy and paste this into your signature.
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2011-01-11, 12:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
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2011-01-11, 01:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
Already noted, thank you for your information
I built him as a Druid to have an animal companion drag him so he could move
What? I always figured that monstrous spiders had different internal anatomy then regular spiders?Last edited by felinoel; 2011-01-11 at 01:05 AM.
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2011-01-11, 01:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
From what I understand, exoskeletons on terrestrial creatures past a certain size simply aren't physically possible. You could try "it's magic" or just handwave it. But with current physics, the amount of weight and thickness required to support the creature increases at a faster weight than the available space for muscle.
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2011-01-11, 01:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
87% of all statistics are made up. If your one of the 38% who know that copy and paste this into your signature.
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2011-01-11, 01:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [3.5] Ability Scores below 10 (for humans)
I wasn't speaking of encumbrance Have you checked your strength score? A couple years back someone showed me a site for converting yourself into a character sheet... sadly it was for GURPS though...
I also assumed it was just magic, because how else did the spider get that big?
It is not my assertion but the assertion of the players handbook in the area where it explains ability scores near the frontLast edited by felinoel; 2011-01-11 at 01:08 AM.
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