Multiweapon Fighting, Unarmed Strike, and Natural Attacks

[Urpriest]

I'd ask this question in the Q&A thread, but I feel like there might be multiple points of view.

Suppose I'm a monster with four arms, each tipped with a claw. When unarmed, I have four claw attacks. According to my stat block I can wield a two-handed weapon and still have two claw attacks. Suppose I take the Multiweapon Fighting tree and Improved Unarmed Strike. I attack while holding nothing in my hands. Can I use all four claw attacks and make unarmed strikes with all four arms? Or would making an unarmed strike with an arm stop me from making a claw attack with it?

By the way, assume this character isn't a monk. I don't want to have the thread derailed by the argument about whether monks are banned from TWFing.

[WinWin]

Some creatures have specific limitations on their natural attacks. Those without them can use them in conjuction with weapon attacks (including unarmed strikes). Having said that, I would likely houserule this in a game.

[Greenish]

Unarmed Strike doesn't require free hands, or even necessarily use hands. (Even if you're not a monk.)

You're basically asking if Unarmed Strikes can be TWF'ed.

[Edit]: In you example, you could make Unarmed Strikes as per your normal attack routine, then use all four of the claws as secondary natural attacks.

[Emperor Ing]

Assuming you can use claw attacks in conjunction with your weapon, i'd say that's what the Multiattack feat is for, reduces penalties from secondary natural attacks form -5 to -2.

Also, claw attacks don't benefit from Improved Unarmed Strike since they're considered Armed.

[Amphetryon]

My reading of the question is basically whether the same limb can make multiple attacks aside from normal iteratives. Please speak up if I'm radically incorrect in this interpretation.

The rules, AFAIK, do not explicitly exclude this, but they do fairly implicitly exclude this. In particular, Magic of Incarnum's rules for claw attacks preclude holding an item in a hand with which you wish to make a claw attack. To me, this precludes using a weapon - including an unarmed strike - with the same limb that makes a claw attack in the same round. It's not written so that this reading is definitive, though.

[Quietus]

The text of the claw attack should mention if it can be used as a secondary, I think - but most can, and so I'm going to assume this is the case.

The key with unarmed strikes is that you don't have to make them with your fists. If your DM suggests that you can't punch someone, then claw them, that's fine; You're headbutting them. Or elbowing them. Or kicking them. Or body slamming them. Then you follow up with your claw attacks as natural secondaries, no problem.

[Keld Denar]

You guys aren't quite getting the question.

So, imagine this. Guy has 4 arms and Multiweapon Fighting. In his 4 clawed hands, he wields 4 daggers. Lets assume a total attack bonus of +10 for simplicity.

His routine would normally be:
Dagger+8/Dagger+8/Dagger+8/Dagger+8

due to multiweapon fighting penalities. So far, so good.

Now, dropping a weapon is a free action. Since the limb is no longer "wielding" a weapon, he could continue to take secondary natural attacks (assume no Multiattack for now).
So, now his attack routine would be:
Dagger+8/Dagger+8/Dagger+8/Dagger+8/Claw+3/Claw+3/Claw+3/Claw+3

This is also clear. So far, still good.

Now, replace all instances of the word "dagger" with "unarmed strike". This aleviates the need to draw and drop a weapon to free it up to make claw attacks. He is, essentially, wielding 4 unarmed strikes. What he's then asking is what the attack routine would look like. The answer is thus:

UAS+8/UAS+8/UAS+8/UAS+8/Claw+3/Claw+3/Claw+3/Claw+3

Keep in mind, this is before iteratives or feats that grant extra natural attacks like (Improved) Rapid Strike.

[Greenish]

Now, replace all instances of the word "dagger" with "unarmed strike". This aleviates the need to draw and drop a weapon to free it up to make claw attacks. He is, essentially, wielding 4 unarmed strikes.

So it boils down on whether unarmed strikes can be TWF'ed (or, in this case, MFW'ed).

I don't know, but I'm pretty sure you only have one unarmed strike.

[Scow2]

An unarmed strike is not a Weapon. You can only make 1 unarmed strike +iteratives per round without Flurry of Blows. Your unarmed strikes are considered as armed, not Weapons.

[Urpriest]

My reading of the question is basically whether the same limb can make multiple attacks aside from normal iteratives. Please speak up if I'm radically incorrect in this interpretation.

The rules, AFAIK, do not explicitly exclude this, but they do fairly implicitly exclude this. In particular, Magic of Incarnum's rules for claw attacks preclude holding an item in a hand with which you wish to make a claw attack. To me, this precludes using a weapon - including an unarmed strike - with the same limb that makes a claw attack in the same round. It's not written so that this reading is definitive, though.

This is indeed what I'm asking about. You're right that it's often assumed in statblocks and the like, but because it isn't particularly explicit I was interested in seeing the community consensus.

You guys aren't quite getting the question.

So, imagine this. Guy has 4 arms and Multiweapon Fighting. In his 4 clawed hands, he wields 4 daggers. Lets assume a total attack bonus of +10 for simplicity.

His routine would normally be:
Dagger+8/Dagger+8/Dagger+8/Dagger+8

due to multiweapon fighting penalities. So far, so good.

Now, dropping a weapon is a free action. Since the limb is no longer "wielding" a weapon, he could continue to take secondary natural attacks (assume no Multiattack for now).
So, now his attack routine would be:
Dagger+8/Dagger+8/Dagger+8/Dagger+8/Claw+3/Claw+3/Claw+3/Claw+3

This is also clear. So far, still good.

Now, replace all instances of the word "dagger" with "unarmed strike". This aleviates the need to draw and drop a weapon to free it up to make claw attacks. He is, essentially, wielding 4 unarmed strikes. What he's then asking is what the attack routine would look like. The answer is thus:

UAS+8/UAS+8/UAS+8/UAS+8/Claw+3/Claw+3/Claw+3/Claw+3

Keep in mind, this is before iteratives or feats that grant extra natural attacks like (Improved) Rapid Strike.

This is almost exactly my line of thought. I had originally designed a character involving gloves of storing to attempt this trick, but I had realized that it would be less prohibitively expensive and silly to simply use unarmed strikes.

As for those arguing that a character only gets one unarmed strike: as far as I am aware, the only textual support for this claim is the Monk description, which is why I specifically excluded this character from being a Monk. I don't want to get in to that debate, though it's related.

Here's a way to phrase the problem: it may or may not be true that a Monk only gets one unarmed strike and cannot TWF with them. Suppose that one is not a Monk, and that one can use TWF (MWF) with unarmed strikes. Does this imply that the unarmed strikes are made with fists, or might they be TWFed and made with non-fist parts of the body? If they are indeed made with fists, then can the same limb make both a claw attack and an unarmed strike?

One thing that makes me somewhat hopeful, though it's not a source so much as charop tradition: everyone's favorite karate-chopping bear build is usually described as having a full attack with both claws and unarmed strikes. This build does not TWF, however, weakening its relevance.

[Keld Denar]

Here's a thought. Can someone cite me a rule that states you can't "equip" more than one UAS?

In theory, you could wield a dozen UASs, just like you could in theory wield a dozen or so actual weapons between both hands, armor spikes, 2x spiked gauntlets, 2x knee blades (CScoundrel), 2x boot blades (CScoundrel), 2x elbow blades (CScoundrel), a weighted cloak (A&EG), a Mouthpick weapon (LoM), and braid blades (A&EG). There is no difference. Since a human only has 2 arms (most of the time), he can only TWF, and could gain at MOST 3 extra attacks (TWF, ITWF, GTWF) regardless of how many weapons he wields. The restriction on number of attacks is determined by your limbs. If you have 2 arms, you can TWF with a second UAS (which doesn't even have to be a hand, by the definition of UAS). If you have 4 arms, you can MWF with 4 UASs, just the same as you could wield 4 daggers. If you have 26 arms, you could MWF with 26 UASs, just the same as you could with 26 daggers.

Your number of arms limits the number of sets of iterative attacks you can gain, REGARDLESS of the number of "weapons" you have equipped. Since there is no IMWF or GMWF, you'd gain one extra attack with each limb you have beyond the first unless you had an ability that dicated otherwise (at which point you'd gain a "set" of offhand attacks all with the same weapon). If you had 4 arms and a +6 BAB, your attack routine would look like:
Mainhand: +4/-1
Offhand1: +4
Offhand2: +4
Offhand3: +4

Those offhand attacks wouldn't have to be with weapons actually held in the hand (could be with armor spikes, for exampl), but you'd need the hand in order to get the attack. A creature with 10 arms and MWF and a +11 BAB would have an attack routine like:
Mainhand: +9/+4/-1
Offhand1: +9
Offhand2: +9
Offhand3: +9
Offhand4: +9
Offhand5: +9
Offhand6: +9
Offhand7: +9
Offhand8: +9
Offhand9: +9

Again, the only restriction on the offhands is that the creature must have a hand to acompany it, and the weapon must be one not previously used in the attack. So he might have something like this if he chose:

Mainhand: +9(+1 Frost Longsword)/+4 (+1 Shocking Longsword)/-1 (+1 Flaming Longsword)
Offhand1: +9 (+1 Frost Shortsword)
Offhand2: +9 (+1 Shocking Shortsword)
Offhand3: +9 (+1 Flaming Shortsword)
Offhand4: +9 (+1 Frost Dagger)
Offhand5: +9 (+1 Shocking Dagger)
Offhand6: +9 (+1 Flaming Dagger)
Offhand7: +9 (+1 Wounding Knee Blade)
Offhand8: +9 (+1 Vorpal Knee Blade)
Offhand9: +9 (Unarmed Strike)

He gets 3 mainhand attacks due to his BAB. He can make them all with the same weapon, or spread them out to up to 3 weapons, all with mainhand bonuses (full +str). Then, he can designate any number of offhand attacks UP TO the number of arms he has. He makes 3 attacks with each of his 3 short swords, 3 attacks with each of his 3 daggers, 2 attacks with each of his equipped knee blades, and an unarmed strike, totalling 10 limbs worth of attacks (1 mainhand + 9 offhands). Regardless of the "hand" that wields the offhand attack, all attacks that are considered offhand only recieve 1/2 +str bonus.

Now, if he was completely unarmed but had Improved Unarmed Strike, his attack routine would look like this:

Mainhand: +9 (UAS)/+4 (UAS)/-1 (UAS)
Offhand1: +9 (UAS)
Offhand2: +9 (UAS)
Offhand3: +9 (UAS)
Offhand4: +9 (UAS)
Offhand5: +9 (UAS)
Offhand6: +9 (UAS)
Offhand7: +9 (UAS)
Offhand8: +9 (UAS)
Offhand9: +9 (UAS)

That means he has between 10 and 12 UASs "equipped". Each one is identical, just the same if he wielded 10 identical daggers. The first 3 UASs he makes are mainhand UASs, so they get full +str bonus on their damage rolls. ALL of the other UASs made that turn are offhand and thus only recieve 1/2 +str bonus on damage.

Now, moving along. If each of those hands had a claw as well, and he made a full attack, (assuming +11 BAB, IUAS, Multiweapon Fighting, and Multiattack)

Mainhand: +9 (UAS)/+4 (UAS)/-1 (UAS)
Offhand1: +9 (UAS)
Offhand2: +9 (UAS)
Offhand3: +9 (UAS)
Offhand4: +9 (UAS)
Offhand5: +9 (UAS)
Offhand6: +9 (UAS)
Offhand7: +9 (UAS)
Offhand8: +9 (UAS)
Offhand9: +9 (UAS)
2ndary Claw1: +7 (Claw1)
2ndary Claw2: +7 (Claw2)
2ndary Claw3: +7 (Claw3)
2ndary Claw4: +7 (Claw4)
2ndary Claw5: +7 (Claw5)
2ndary Claw6: +7 (Claw6)
2ndary Claw7: +7 (Claw7)
2ndary Claw8: +7 (Claw8)
2ndary Claw9: +7 (Claw9)
2ndary Claw10: +7 (Claw10)

This follows from the above. He gets one set of mainhand iteratives with his UAS, then 9 offhand attacks, then 10 secondary natural weapon attacks since he hand isn't occupied by holding a manufactured weapon.

Its a bit complicated, but not THAT difficult. The number of sets of attacks you can make is limited by your arms, despite the fact that those arms are not required to actually wield the weapon (such as in the case of armor spikes or similar non-hand weapons).

Along a similar line of thought, a typical human monk has 2 arms, and thus can TWF with 2 UASs. The rule in the monk's description refers to the fact that during normal iterative attacks, it doesn't matter which part of the body the monk is attacking with, these are still main hand attacks, similar to my example above with the 10 armed guy attacking with 3 different longswords (one frost, one shocking, and one flaming) with his 3 iterative attacks. If, however, the monk chooses to TWF and make more attacks than his BAB would normally grant him, then he gains an offhand attack, just like the 10 handed gentleman above. If the 10 handed guy above was a monk, he could take Multiweapon Fighting and make 1 extra UAS per hand he has (even if those UASs are labled as headbutts, elbow strikes, pelvic thrusts, kicks, etc). These offhand attack is treated in every way, shape, and form as an offhand attack made by any other creature. Its consitancy within the rules that applies to ALL classes.

# of sets of offhand attacks possible = # of limbs -1, no exceptions.

[Greenish]

Suppose that one is not a Monk, and that one can use TWF (MWF) with unarmed strikes. Does this imply that the unarmed strikes are made with fists, or might they be TWFed and made with non-fist parts of the body?

Unarmed Attacks
Striking for damage with punches, kicks, and head butts is much like attacking with a melee weapon, except for the following…

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/act...tandardActions

[Eloel]

Here's a thought. Can someone cite me a rule that states you can't "equip" more than one UAS?

I could explain. I think.

An unarmed strike can be made with any part of the body. There are way too many parts to the body. (Part is not defined. You could nosebump someone.) No, you can't multi-wield a 'headbutt', a 'nosebump', a 'bodyslam', a 'right kick', a 'left kick', a 'right punch', a 'left punch', a 'left knee', a 'right knee', a 'left elbow'... You get the picture.

[Frosty]

Keld Denar is essentially right. I've asked about and also explained this before on the forums, except I was using TWF in my example.

You get to make your full-attack with your non-natural weapons first (be it a sword or an Unarmed Strike which can be a kick or a headbutt for example). So if you have BAB +20 and GTWF, you'd get 7 attacks. THEN you add in your natural attacks as secondary (-5 penalty unless you have multiattack, which lowers penalty to -2) attacks. Notice that because the character used TWF, the -2 penalty also extends to the natural attacks on top of the penalty for secondary attacks.

In the case of multi-weapon fighting, it's the same thing just calculate your full-attack routine without natural weapons (in the case of having 4 arms and BAB +20, there's again 7 attacks), then add in the claw attacks.

If confused, see the Marilith entry in the monster manual.

[Keld Denar]

An unarmed strike can be made with any part of the body. There are way too many parts to the body. (Part is not defined. You could nosebump someone.) No, you can't multi-wield a 'headbutt', a 'nosebump', a 'bodyslam', a 'right kick', a 'left kick', a 'right punch', a 'left punch', a 'left knee', a 'right knee', a 'left elbow'... You get the picture.

I fail to see how this counters my post. You are always wielding an arbitrarily large number of UASs, essentially. Every striking surface of your body is essentially an UAS. However, since you only have 2 arms, you are limited to a number of attacks you could make with one primary weapon, and one secondary weapon. See the above post for a breakdown on how those attacks are dispersed. Those attacks can be with any part of your body, as I described above.

What Multiweapon Fighting does NOT allow, is you to claim an attack with every body part you can name (I have 212 bones in my body, so I get 212 attacks per round, right? Wrong.). The maximum number of attacks you can make is still proportional to the number of arms you possess. The easiest way to think about it is to consider how many daggers a character could wield at any given time. One of those daggers is mainhand, and all the rest are offhand. For each dagger you could have wielded, you can make one set of unarmed strikes in its place (a mainhand set is defined as your iteratives, an offhand set is determined by which TWF/MWF feats you have).

[Urpriest]

This discussion brings up a related question: must secondary natural attacks be made after manufactured attacks, or can they be made first (at the appropriate -5 penalty, of course)?

[Runeclaw]

Here's a thought. Can someone cite me a rule that states you can't "equip" more than one UAS?

It's right next to the rule that states that Improved Unarmed Strike doesn't allow you to teleport as a free action.

Which is to say, it isn't usually incumbent upon rules writers to state every ridiculous thing that can't be done. Instead, the Feats tell you what you CAN do with them.

Clearly, an unarmed strike isn't equipped. Adding quotes does nothing to change this.

[Runeclaw]

The maximum number of attacks you can make is still proportional to the number of arms you possess.

Where is this stated?

[Godskook]

Since there is no IMWF or GMWF,

This is not correct. They are in an abnormal part of the SRD, but they *ARE* in there.

[Keld Denar]

Why not? It's not like I'm saying that since there are no rules dictating which direction gravity pulls, therefore I can fall up if I choose. Unarmed Strike is a weapon choice here, right next to gauntlet and dagger. Its a weapon, just the same as they are. Why would it be treated any different? Balance-wise, its no different than any other weapon, and fluff-wise, its simply attacking at a higher rate at the expense of accuracy, similar to the mechanics behind Rapid Shot or Flurry of Blows. I've already proven that the number of attacks you can make is not dependant on how many weapons you can wield, so mechanically speaking, there is no difference between wielding one UAS and wielding a million UASs.

As far as number of attacks with arms, that can easily be infered by looking at any multiarmed monster's stat block. Exhibit A) Marilith and Exhibit B) Xill.

Xills have 4 arms. Their stat block has them making 2 attacks with short swords and 2 claw attacks or 4 claw attacks. They can't make 4 claw attacks WITH the 2 shortsword attacks unless they drop the short swords mid attack routine. If you shuffled some of his feats around to give him IUAS, he could make 4 UASs and 4 claw attacks in a round, since his UAS doesn't impede with his ability to use natural attacks like a sword would.

Marilith have 6 arms. They make their iterative attacks with their primary arm, followed by 5 attacks with each of their other arms. Since they also have a slam, if you swapped around a marilith's feats to give her Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Multiweapon Fighting, she could make 6 sets of UASs with 2 attacks each (one set being primary), 6 slams (all secondary), and 1 tail slap (also secondary). All published multiarmed monsters follow this formula, provided they are able to wield weapons with those arms (not all can, like a bear).

Unless you have evidence to the contrary?

EDIT:

This is not correct. They are in an abnormal part of the SRD, but they *ARE* in there.

Yup, I just found them. Thats what I get for doing a google search of the SRD instead of just going through the main page...

[Curmudgeon]

You are always wielding an arbitrarily large number of UASs, essentially.

Nope. It's always just the one. The D&D rules don't go into any elaboration of different characteristics for head butts vs. kicks. vs. elbow strikes. It's a single weapon because you can't have different characteristics for those body parts when used in combat. Also the number and distribution of those body parts makes no matter for the number and effect of your unarmed attacks.

[Keld Denar]

Also the number and distribution of those body parts makes no matter for the number and effect of your unarmed attacks.

This is EXACTLY my point. It doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is the number of arms you have (where Multiweapon Fighting is involved).

Are you implying that a creature with Multiweapon Fighting and IUAS wouldn't get multiple attacks?

How many attacks would you say a 4 armed creature with a BAB of +1, Multiweapon Fighting, and Improved Unarmed Strike would get to make? And what is your justification?

[Curmudgeon]

Are you implying that a creature with Multiweapon Fighting and IUAS wouldn't get multiple attacks?

I'm saying that the number of unarmed attacks wouldn't change, because Two-Weapon Fighting and Multiweapon Fighting only refer to weapon attacks, not unarmed attacks.

[Keld Denar]

Funny, I look at the table here, and it lists Unarmed Strike as a weapon. If its not a weapon, then what is it?

[ffone]

A character's Unarmed Strike is one 'weapon'. I'm fairly sure you can't TWF with the unarmed strikes being both 'sides' or 'weapons' of the TWF routine - and (if you're a normal nonmonstrous character) you can't TWF with two manufactured weapons and then use Unarmed Strikes as a third weapon (even though it's not the lack of free hands stopping you), unless you're of a race that can normally do so.

Think of it this way - it's not 'Two Hand Fighting', it's 'Two Weapon Fighting'.

The Rules of the Game: All About Unarmed Strikes series (Part One: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070327a) has a rundown of unarmed / TWF issues (it might be Part Two or Three). IIRC it doesn't explicitly say you cannot TWF with your Unarmed Strike as both weapons, but it has a rundown of various TWFing options involving unarmed, and unarmed+unarmed is not among them. And my guess is that RAW you can't b/c unarmed strike is always referred to as 'one weapon' (and flusswise it's the very fact that it IS any part of your whole body that suggests you don't have a 'second' such weapon) and I don't think anything says you can?

Again, this has nothing to do with 'punches' or 'fists'. Being able to kick/headbutt etc. lets you use Unarmed Strikes with your hands full - but it doesn't give you extra attacks (just as you can't TWF + armor spikes, or get infinity attacks by using Quick Draw). Your full attack progression is defined by your BAB and iteratives, and then the TWFing rules and natural weapon rules give you a certain amount of extra attacks, with various penalties (to all attcks i the case of TWF, and just to secondary natural weapons themselves in the case of natural weapons).

And balancewise, I wouldn't suggest allowing uanrmed+unarmed TWFing b/c then you can get two weapons' enhancements from one (Greater) Magic Fang spell or Amulet of Natural Attacks.

[ffone]

He is, essentially, wielding 4 unarmed strikes..

Where does it say that a character has multiple 'unarmed strike' weapons, or that the number of such weapons is based on their number of hands? (Despite, somehow, the fact that you can use any part of your body as one.)

[Keld Denar]

Where does it say that a character has multiple 'unarmed strike' weapons, or that the number of such weapons is based on their number of hands? (Despite, somehow, the fact that you can use any part of your body as one.)

To quote myself to save time:

As far as number of attacks with arms, that can easily be infered by looking at any multiarmed monster's stat block. Exhibit A) Marilith and Exhibit B) Xill.

Xills have 4 arms. Their stat block has them making 2 attacks with short swords and 2 claw attacks or 4 claw attacks. They can't make 4 claw attacks WITH the 2 shortsword attacks unless they drop the short swords mid attack routine. If you shuffled some of his feats around to give him IUAS, he could make 4 UASs and 4 claw attacks in a round, since his UAS doesn't impede with his ability to use natural attacks like a sword would.

Marilith have 6 arms. They make their iterative attacks with their primary arm, followed by 5 attacks with each of their other arms. Since they also have a slam, if you swapped around a marilith's feats to give her Improved Unarmed Strike and Improved Multiweapon Fighting, she could make 6 sets of UASs with 2 attacks each (one set being primary), 6 slams (all secondary), and 1 tail slap (also secondary). All published multiarmed monsters follow this formula, provided they are able to wield weapons with those arms (not all can, like a bear).

Unless you have evidence to the contrary?

There is a formula there. Even if its not explicitly stated anywhere, you can easily pull it out of monster stat blocks.

As far as why you can't do Unarmed/Unarmed TWF, I have yet to see any concrete proof on why you can't. Again, I reference you to the weapon table in the SRD. There is "Unarmed Strike", right next to "Dagger" and "Gauntlet". Its a weapon. You can "wield" it. Again, it doesn't matter how many weapon you wield at any given time...if you have 2 arms, you can never have more than one set of offhand attacks, if you have 3+ arms, you can never have more than X-1 sets of offhand attacks, where X is the number of arms you have, as I proved with the evidence above. Why should unarmed strikes be any different from daggers or short swords or any other weapon listed on the table?

Think of it this way - it's not 'Two Hand Fighting', it's 'Two Weapon Fighting'.

And an unarmed strike isn't a weapon? Why does it appear on the list of weapons in my PHB? Why can you make iteratives with it? It is a weapon.

Again, this has nothing to do with 'punches' or 'fists'. Being able to kick/headbutt etc. lets you use Unarmed Strikes with your hands full - but it doesn't give you extra attacks (just as you can't TWF + armor spikes, or get infinity attacks by using Quick Draw). Your full attack progression is defined by your BAB and iteratives, and then the TWFing rules and natural weapon rules give you a certain amount of extra attacks, with various penalties (to all attcks i the case of TWF, and just to secondary natural weapons themselves in the case of natural weapons).

And I never said it has ANYTHING to do with punches or fists. Multiweapon Fighting does explicitly deal with arms though.

Multiweapon Fighting [General]
Prerequisites
Dex 13, three or more hands.

Benefit
Penalties for fighting with multiple weapons are reduced by 2 with the primary hand and reduced by 6 with off hands.

Normal
A creature without this feat takes a -6 penalty on attacks made with its primary hand and a -10 penalty on attacks made with its off hands. (It has one primary hand, and all the others are off hands.) See Two-Weapon Fighting.

Special
This feat replaces the Two-Weapon Fighting feat for creatures with more than two arms.

You need 3 or more hands, or more than 2 arms, as the text states. If you do qualify, you follow the template I outlined above with Xill and Marilith as examples. There is no reason, however, why a creature with multiple arms couldn't have multiple UASs just like there is no reason a creature couldn't hold multiple daggers, or a creature with 2 arms couldn't have 2 UASs (or two daggers). Its not about punching with both hands, or all four hands, or all 26 hands, I've never said it is. Its simply attacking more quickly with your UASs, fluffed any way you so desire, as long as the mechanics of mainhand attacks and offhand attacks all match up. Stop thinking in terms of a physical body and more in terms of pure game mechanics. The mechanics are there for you to see, interpret, and extrapolate.

If you disagree, riddle me this: What would the attack routine look like for an unarmed Xill with IUAS? What about the Marilith?

[Curmudgeon]

Again, it doesn't matter how many weapon you wield at any given time...if you have 2 arms, you can never have more than one set of offhand attacks, if you have 3+ arms, you can never have more than X-1 sets of offhand attacks, where X is the number of arms you have, as I proved with the evidence above. Why should unarmed strikes be any different from daggers or short swords or any other weapon listed on the table?

They're not. If you have 3 arms and 3 daggers (one basic one, one masterwork, and one +2) you can wield all 3 of those daggers, and you'll use the properties of each individual weapon you wield. If you have 2 arms, 4 arms, or no arms you still have just one unarmed strike you can wield, and that unarmed strike can never have different properties based on your different body parts.

There's just no connection between the number of arms and the number of unarmed attacks.

[Keld Denar]

you still have just one unarmed strike you can wield,

I don't care about the rest. I want to know where this is from. I haven't seen any evidence for it. Why is an unarmed strike different from all the other weapons on the table? Where does it say "you only have one unarmed strike"? Without an exception, the unarmed strike should be treated just like any other weapon on the table.

[ffone]

I don't care about the rest. I want to know where this is from. I haven't seen any evidence for it. Why is an unarmed strike different from all the other weapons on the table? Where does it say "you only have one unarmed strike"? Without an exception, the unarmed strike should be treated just like any other weapon on the table.

It is. It's just that you have to show where you are getting a second 'body' from.

To TWF with two shortswords, a character must possess two shortswords. You can't TWF with one shortsword, even if, say, you grip it in both hands. (Whereas a double weapon is actually treated as two weapons.)

To wield two unarmed strikes, you must possess two (this is different than using flurry, haste or iterative to make multiple attacks). I infer that a character does not, b/c

1. I haven't found anywhere saying it does, and the burden of proof has to be on showing you can do some particular attack routine.
2. Text about unarmed strikes generally suggests it's your entire body, and that you only have one such weapon. Since you can unarmed strike with any part of your body, if you were unarmed+unarmed TWFing....then 'both' of them could be headbutts, yes?
3. Reduction from the absurd. Since unarmed strikes are not keyed to hands...if you can do 2, why not 100?

A marilith's Slams are different than Unarmed Strikes. Those are natural weapons (and the monster's stat entry suggests it needs a free hand per slam, since it can't do 6 swords + 6 slams).