Building a Warlock/Rogue

[gallagher]

so i need to come up with a warlock/rogue build that makes him the best rogue-type possible. the campaign has us all as sneaky sneak types that work as a group, but only one of us gets the real prize at the end.

i am putting warlock in there because i like some of the invocations. i really at least want to have flee the scene and the one from complete mage that lets me take my eye out and have it walk around... i think that means i need 7 levels of warlock? or is it 8? i dunno, i am afb...

the game starts at at least level 10, but no more than level 12. we dont know how many levels we will be gaining

so any ideas as how to make this the rogue-iest warlock build i can? i dont want any of the eldritch blast invocations, i want to use the more utility ones that give me buffs. i also do not want to go into hellfire warlock

[true_shinken]

Craven + Eldritch Claws should make your damage output pretty nice.

[gallagher]

well, i am being a whisper gnome for sure, so i wont get the human bonus feat.

at rogue 2/ warlock 8, i get 4 feats? thats my combat reflexes, improved initiative, craven and eldritch claws then.

as far as invocations goes, that would be spiderwalk, leaps and bounds, and probably entropic warding or devils sight, flee the scene and fell flight... not too shabby there.

i would probably be intelligence primarily to take advantage of the fact that skill tricks are allowed in this game. i gotta find out which ones to take. but hey, i like the damage output and the survivability

[gorfnab]

Whisper Gnome Rogue 3/ Warlock 6/ Telfammar Shadowlord 5/ Arcane Trickster (advancing warlock casting) 6 - Flee the Scene leads to pouncing every round and Eldritch Glaive could help with dealing damage.

[JeminiZero]

i am putting warlock in there because i like some of the invocations. i really at least want to have flee the scene and the one from complete mage that lets me take my eye out and have it walk around... i think that means i need 7 levels of warlock? or is it 8? i dunno, i am afb...

That particular Invocation is called Crawling Eye. Flee the Scene is the one which teleports you and leaves behind a major image. You need to be at least Warlock 6 to get one lesser invoc, and warlock 8 to have 2 lesser invocs (if you want fell flight as well).

[Telonius]

Whisper Gnome Rogue 3/ Warlock 6/ Telfammar Shadowlord 5/ Arcane Trickster (advancing warlock casting) 6 - Flee the Scene leads to pouncing every round and Eldritch Glaive could help with dealing damage.

This sounds pretty good. If you don't have access to Unapproachable East for Shadowlord, you could just finish out Arcane Trickster, then take the last level of Warlock.

[Person_Man]

Are you wedded to Rogue, or is it that you want access to specific Skills?

Because Warlock already gets UMD and the ability to Take 10 on it, and Bluff/Intimidate/Disguise/Sense Motive if you want to talk your way past enemies.

So presumably that just leaves Hide and Move Silently to sneak, and Spot/Listen if you feel compelled to be the party scout (which you shouldn't, if there are other sneaky types in your party). The extra damage from Sneak Attack is a wash, as you're losing damage on your Eldritch Blast. Evasion can be purchased with a ring or two feats.

You can add Hide and Move Silently as class Skills with a feat (IIRC it's in Heroes of Battle), or just replace them with Invisibility and Silence as needed, or take a few levels of Uncanny Trickster or some other PrC with the Skills you want on it's list.

[Master_Rahl22]

You don't need both Spider Climb and Fell Flight since any time you could climb you could just fly instead.

[ErrantX]

If you use Tome of Battle, I'd almost suggest dropping Rogue for Swordsage, personally, unless you're also going to be party trapspringer. If this is the case, Rogue + Warlock is kinda rough. To optimize one side is pretty much going to ruin the other. See if you can use Arcane Trickster with it perhaps, or Unseen Seer?

How opposed to Homebrew are you/your DM/your group? If this is available, I had a player in a game once that totally wanted to do the warlock/rogue combo so I wrote up a Daggerspell class called the Daggerspell Invoker that helped him out with that. It provides increased invocations and sneak attack, decent skills, increases to some of the warlock's class features, and new ways to use your eldritch blast (such as a built in eldritch glaive-like class feature that utilizes two-weapon fighting and allows you to move).

Give it a look over, might be what you're looking for.

-X

[gallagher]

Are you wedded to Rogue, or is it that you want access to specific Skills?

Because Warlock already gets UMD and the ability to Take 10 on it, and Bluff/Intimidate/Disguise/Sense Motive if you want to talk your way past enemies.

So presumably that just leaves Hide and Move Silently to sneak, and Spot/Listen if you feel compelled to be the party scout (which you shouldn't, if there are other sneaky types in your party). The extra damage from Sneak Attack is a wash, as you're losing damage on your Eldritch Blast. Evasion can be purchased with a ring or two feats.

You can add Hide and Move Silently as class Skills with a feat (IIRC it's in Heroes of Battle), or just replace them with Invisibility and Silence as needed, or take a few levels of Uncanny Trickster or some other PrC with the Skills you want on it's list.

i am saying rogue because every person is supposed to be able to be a rogue-style class.

the game revolves around us all being invited to be the understudy of the head of this secret society of thieves who's job is to go and get ancient artifacts and relics. everyone needs to be some sort of thieving style class to have been able to be invited. so we all need to have a rogue/scout/spellthief/ninja background, as everyone needs trapfinding and open lock/disable device. otherwise there is no way for any of us to survive.

think of it as every person in the party needs to fill the rogue roll, and then we go from there to fill up the rest of the roles in the party. i am using warlock because it is going to be immensely flavorful. i am thinking of ditching fell flight because i need to be more impressive (why we arent having a primary spellcaster in the group is because we wont impress someone if we just fly away, you get style points for being creatively sneaky)

[Duke of URL]

Really, with the exception of trapfinding, a warlock fills the "rogue role" completely in and of itself.

[ErrantX]

i am saying rogue because every person is supposed to be able to be a rogue-style class.

Well, again, if homebrew is allowed I did a half-dozen Daggerspell classes for almost every walk of life in the D&D world. Check my homebrew sig, if you're interested in them.

-X

[Susano-wo]

Just an idea: If you really want to play a warlock, but are required to use rogue capabilities, Human with Able Learner and your first level rogue would get you all the rogue's class skills at the normal max for free, and you can just level up your warlock, putting points into your rogue skills.

If you think that rogue/warlock is fun (which sounds pretty fun to me, and might have some utility if you can't be slinging Eldritch blasts around willy nilly for some reason), then I'd just go with the Warlock levels necessary to get the invocations you want and fill the rest with Rogue.

Is there a rogue/warlock multiclass feat? (honestly, I like those and I wish they had made a comprehensive set of em.)

[Person_Man]

as everyone needs trapfinding and open lock/disable device. otherwise there is no way for any of us to survive.

Why does everyone need it? If one person optimizes Search, Open Lock, and Disable Device, as long as everyone else sticks near that person, you should be fine.

But lets assume you need/want it for fluff reasons.

Open Lock/Disable Device can be replaced with Baleful Utterance (unlimited Shatter). You can also get it via numerous classes and prestige classes.

Trapfinding can be had many ways:

• Theft Gloves, soulmeld, Magic of Incarnum (can be accessed with 2 feats)
• Barbarian 3, class variant, Dungeonscape, replaces Trap Sense, see text
• Rogue 1
• Ranger 1, class variant, Dungeonscape, replaces Track
• Beguiler 1, Player's Handbook 2
• Ninja 1, Complete Adventurer
• Scout 1, Complete Adventurer
• Spellthief 1, Complete Adventurer
• Nightsong Infiltrator 1, ecl 8, Complete Adventurer
• Geometer 3, ecl 9, Complete Arcane, Traps based on writing only
• Temple Raider of Olidammara 1, ecl 6, Complete Divine
• Stoneblessed(Dwarf) 3, ecl 5, Races of Stone, stone traps only
• Stonedeath Assassin 1, ecl 6, Races of Stone
• Artificer 1, Eberron Campaign Setting, disable traps
• Silverkey 1, ecl 4, Eberron: Dragonmarked, called "wardsense"
• Factotum 1, Dungeonscape
• Disciple of Dispater 2, ecl 8, Book of Vile Darkness, metal only
• Kobold domain, Races of the Dragon, web enhancement
• Hoardstealer 1, ecl 6, Draconomicon
• Planar Touchstone (Catalogues of Enlightenment), feat, Planar Handbook, gain the ability of a chosen doman (pick Kobold, see above)
• Trap Sensitivity, feat, Dungeonscape, do not have to search for mechanical traps actively, requires Trapfinding or Elf.

Kobold Cleric/Warlock/Eldritch Disciple seems like the strongest option for what you're looking for. Incarnate/Warlock/PrC would also be pretty good, as Soulmelds can be used to boost most Skills quite high.

[gallagher]

Why does everyone need it? If one person optimizes Search, Open Lock, and Disable Device, as long as everyone else sticks near that person, you should be fine.

because the party isnt your normal party. we all have to be rogue-style characters because that is how we come together. we are being recruited by the best rogue to be his apprentice. it is the story concept.

but a cloistered cleric 3/warlock2/ED10 should be a great base build. that kobold domain could be a nice trick that the DM wont expect. i like the flavor. i could still be a whisper gnome, too, and say that i took the kobold domain from studying them for so long

[Greenish]

I could still be a whisper gnome, too, and say that I took the kobold domain from studying them for so long.

A kobold comes with some natural weapons and armour, Dragonblood subtype for all kinds of handy stuff, slight build, and best of all, it's a kobold!

Compared to Whisper Gnome, it loses on SLAs (though it can pick one up from a ritual) and has a smaller bonus on Move Silently (equally good at Hiding though).

[ShneekeyTheLost]

because the party isnt your normal party. we all have to be rogue-style characters because that is how we come together. we are being recruited by the best rogue to be his apprentice. it is the story concept.

but a cloistered cleric 3/warlock2/ED10 should be a great base build. that kobold domain could be a nice trick that the DM wont expect. i like the flavor. i could still be a whisper gnome, too, and say that i took the kobold domain from studying them for so long

Then grab the Travel domain and either go Travel Devotion or simply be the party taxi-cab. Or do both with a feat. Travel Devotion lets you get a move action with a turn attempt, so you can move into position AND Glaive your weaselly black guts out.

If you want still more rogue-ish, you can do this:

Rogue1/Spellthief1/Warlock6/Nosmiac Chirugeon1/Arcane Trickster

Basically, NC lets you use SLA's to cast Inflict spells. So you can satisfy the AT requirement of being able to cast up to 3rd level spells.

If your GM is willing to waive that restriction, it's Rogue1(Able Learner)/Spellthief1/Warlock6/Arcane Trickster10

Impromptu Sneak Attack + Eldritch Blast = fun times. Flat Footed + Touch Attack = AC 10+Size and Deflection modifiers. Which usually is significantly lower than your total attack bonus. Plus you get more sneak attack this way.