How should one roleplay reacting to extremely high CHA characters?

[randomhero00]

Like say with charisma 22+, so inhuman levels of beauty and charm. How do you react to such? Reacting realistically almost seems game breaking to me. Anyone that cool and hot would just be fawned over instantly by everyone with a pulse. People with 18 cha in real life are already drooled over. Imagine someone with 30 charisma...

So far all the games I've been in charisma has sadly been pretty much ignored. I think its because they/we don't know how to properly roleplay it. Tips?

[HunterOfJello]

It really depends on the character. This is usually a scenario played out on every television show ever created. There are all sorts of ways that characters could react.


The creepy rogue might try stealing some of her undergarments.

A barbarian might try to steal her away to make her his bride.

A handsome bard might try to woo her.

Any female character might become extremely jealous or fall for her too.

An evil spellcaster might cast a spell on her face to make it look uglier (either forever or just for a while.)

[Zaydos]

Assuming 3.X 20th level humans can have 26 Charisma without magical aid so 22 is not superhuman (+3 for being venerable, +5 for level). Also Charisma !/= beauty. Nymph's have 18 Charisma but are supernaturally beautiful beyond the equal of any human.

[Maryring]

Personally, I'd say that reaction to charisma is more dependant upon wisdom. High wisdom allows you to be less easily "knocked out" by high charisma. For example, a drop dead gorgeous woman could easily seduce half the town male population to eat from her hand, but the wise priest, or the insightful librarian would acknowledge her beauty, but not let themselves be used by it.

[Dr.Epic]

Like say with charisma 22+, so inhuman levels of beauty and charm. How do you react to such? Reacting realistically almost seems game breaking to me. Anyone that cool and hot would just be fawned over instantly by everyone with a pulse. People with 18 cha in real life are already drooled over. Imagine someone with 30 charisma...

So far all the games I've been in charisma has sadly been pretty much ignored. I think its because they/we don't know how to properly roleplay it. Tips?

Cha doesn't equal physical beauty. It's a cool, convincing personality.

As to how one should react, it depends on what sort of emotion they should be trying to convey. If they trying to be intimidating (like the skill) then the person should be terrified. But in general people should be very interested, trusting, and delighted by them.

[Fouredged Sword]

It's about control as well. A high cha character can disaper better than a normal person with the disguise skill. Basicly they can simply get away with more than your average person. People are slow to hate them, quick to like them, easy to fear them, and simple to manipulate. The player roleplays howerver they wish, other people are simply easier to control.

[randomhero00]

Assuming 3.X 20th level humans can have 26 Charisma without magical aid so 22 is not superhuman (+3 for being venerable, +5 for level). Also Charisma !/= beauty. Nymph's have 18 Charisma but are supernaturally beautiful beyond the equal of any human.

by human I meant average human commoner. Also, don't forget items and tomes.

[jmbrown]

Jealousy and envy are just as strong a reaction to high charisma as attraction. Even in the real world we have people who hate celebrities and political figures not because they're bad at their jobs but because of something totally nonsensical like how they look or who they're affiliated with.

[Greenish]

by human I meant average human commoner.

Being better than an average commoner doesn't (necessarily) mean inhuman levels of anything.

[Zaydos]

My point though is that 22 Charisma isn't that amazing in a world where people can routinely obtain 26 or 37. And again Charisma !/= beauty. Charisma is that ability to convince people, to lead, and most importantly that spiritual essence that compels others (and in the case of Sorcerers reality) to bend to your will.

[Valameer]

No, charisma does not equal beauty, but beauty is not the only thing that makes people stand out.

Whether randomhero meant beauty or not doesn't really matter: his point stands. People with high charisma (that aren't masking it somehow) should usually make people stop and take notice. Especially common npcs.

If [insert your favorite actor/musician] walked into a place you commonly frequent, they would get noticed. Some of them would get noticed even without their star power. If they need a pen - they get a pen! If they're short a dollar or two - oh well, that doesn't matter! People get star-struck whether they think they will or not.

Usually as a DM I try to look over people's int, wis and cha scores. I don't *really* care if they don't play to their int and wis very closely, that's not really up to me. But for playing up their charisma, the ball is in my court. So I have regular npcs take notice and act friendly.

PCs, well, that's up to them. I don't think you could tell a fellow player "My guy is really charming, your guy should be nicer to me." Well, I guess you could. It would be funny.

Also, charisma of up to 36 aside - even if that's possible, it's not common. Normal people *will* notice someone with over 20 charisma, if that person wants to be noticed. I'm sorry but people are shallow. They see a strong, confident, non-hideous person, and it draws their attention.

[jmbrown]

Being better than an average commoner doesn't (necessarily) mean inhuman levels of anything.

An 18 is the upper limits of a human's ability. Anything higher than an 18 is literally superhuman.

My point though is that 22 Charisma isn't that amazing in a world where people can routinely obtain 26 or 37. And again Charisma !/= beauty. Charisma is that ability to convince people, to lead, and most importantly that spiritual essence that compels others (and in the case of Sorcerers reality) to bend to your will.

Only if "people can routinely" means less than one-tenth of one percent unless your game world is populated entirely by PC classed NPCs with crazy ridiculous stats or happens to be called Forgotten Realms.

[Greenish]

An 18 is the upper limits of a human's ability.

It's not, as has been demonstrated in this very thread.

Unless you, too, mean "average human commoner" when you say "human".

[Fax Celestis]

An 18 is the upper limits of a human's ability. Anything higher than an 18 is literally superhuman.

...according to?

[Zaydos]

An 18 is the upper limits of a human's ability. Anything higher than an 18 is literally superhuman.

Age modifiers. 21 is max for a 1st level commoner. And an average metropolis will have 20th level aristocrats or others with 20 to 23 + age + items or somewhere between 29 and 37. So it's not that rare.

[Curmudgeon]

How to react? Mostly, you say little and observe intently. Think of those old newsreels with tens of thousands of Nazis standing in neat rows listening to Hitler speak.

[DeltaEmil]

Charisma 22 only means that the creature has a +6 bonus to diplomacy, bluff, gather information, intimidate, disguise and whatever other social skill there is, making it easier for him or her to achieve the desired effect.
I'm not ever going to allow charisma, no matter how high or how low, to define itself as beauty and personality. These traits are something the player can decide for his or her character without having to max a stat. Having to roll with a negative modifier should be the only penalty for low ability scores.

It's up for the player to decide how his or her character looks like. It's up to the game moderator and the dice rolls how npcs react to a player character.

[jmbrown]

Unless you, too, mean "average human commoner" when you say "human".

I mean the average NPC, not necessarily a commoner.

...according to?

According to the default character generation that has been used for the past 30 years. Obviously your mileage will vary if you use something that isn't 3d6 or 4d6 best 3. Anything higher than 18 is superhuman.

Age modifiers. 21 is max for a 1st level commoner. And an average metropolis will have 20th level aristocrats or others with 20 to 23 + age + items or somewhere between 29 and 37. So it's not that rare.

NPCs are built using the common array. Even the most elite NPC will have 15 charisma. With age modifiers, that puts him 18 + 4 more if he gained 20 levels, putting him at 22 but a level 20 character is pretty much superhuman.

[Greenish]

NPCs are built using the common array. Even the most elite NPC will have 15 charisma. With age modifiers, that puts him 18 max.

If he's level 3 or lower. NPCs do come in levels higher than that, though.

[Edit]: Also, "upper limit" is not something set by the average fella.

[Zaydos]

NPCs are built using the common array. Even the most elite NPC will have 15 charisma. With age modifiers, that puts him 18 max.

With magic items, he'll have higher but that already proves my point about 18+ being superhuman.

Commoners and warriors are built on the average array, and most NPCs are built on the elite array and according to the DMG Lv 20 characters in NPC classes are not that uncommon, so that 23 + Items is fully possible, and if the DM decides to give the NPC better than the basic elite array (which is fully within human possibility) 26 + is possible.

Now 27 or higher is in fact super-human, anything less is not.

[Foryn Gilnith]

If he's level 3 or lower.

A Human Paragon of third level can pick up a +2 to a stat. IMO, "superhuman" in terms of charisma comes after 24 Charisma - 18 base, +3 age, +1 from fourth level, +2 from human paragon. Everything afterward is just the ridiculousness that high levels introduce.

[jmbrown]

If he's level 3 or lower. NPCs do come in levels higher than that, though.

[Edit]: Also, "upper limit" is not something set by the average fella.

I would definitely say someone 4th level and above is superhuman. The DMG backs that up.

"Most commoners never attain higher than 2nd or 3rd level in their whole lives."

"A typical blacksmith might only be 3rd level but the world's greatest blacksmith is probably a 20th level expert."

Commoners and warriors are built on the average array, and most NPCs are built on the elite array and according to the DMG Lv 20 characters in NPC classes are not that uncommon, so that 23 + Items is fully possible, and if the DM decides to give the NPC better than the basic elite array (which is fully within human possibility) 26 + is possible.

Now 27 or higher is in fact super-human, anything less is not.

Only elite NPCs are built using the elite array. Every monster is built on the average array so how does it make any sense that every non-monster NPC is built on the elite array, something that should be reserved for powerful characters or PCs because it equals the standard point buy!

In a metropolis you'll have four 16-20th level aristocrats, eight 10th level aristocrats, sixteen 5th level aristocrats, and (assuming a population of, lets say 26,000) 130 1st level aristocrats. Assuming all of them use the elite array and are max age (which is absolutely ridiculous), the 20th and 10th level aristocrats will have a score above 20, the 5th level aristocrats will have a score of 222, and everyone else will have a score of 18. The number of aristocrats with a charisma score above 18 in a city of 26,000 would make up .10769230769230768% of the population... definitely not common.

D&D's naturalism works when you step back and take a look at it.

[Ormur]

Of course in reality people can't be relegated to 6 abilities, for which they roll 3d6 and change accordingly as they age. Reality is also not a level based RPG either and average people certainly don't reach 20 levels. Any sort of attempt at simulation of reality by D&D rules probably wouldn't allow but a tiny percentage to gain even the first level based stat increase, if any. Since we're comparing D&D characters with real people I think we can presume that anything that has the equivalent of over 20 in Charisma is very, very rare in the real world.

For people with such a high charisma I imagine they are the sort of people that are always surrounded by friends, seemingly effortlessly advance in any social hierarchy and can captivate audiences, dominate conversations and almost hypnotize people with their presence. I suppose it can manifest in many ways, the outrageous rock star that thrills fans with their antics and coolness, the politician that always says the right thing to people and looks like he genuinely cares about each and everyone, the preacher that arouses passion in the audience and inspires fanatic devotion.

It must also depend on other mental stats and, to use the D&D simplification, alignment. Someone might seem very charming at first glance but lack any substance or maybe even be a complete sociopath. On the other hand he could really be the nicest guy there is.

[Greenish]

The number of aristocrats with a charisma score above 18 in a city of 26,000 would make up .10769230769230768% of the population... definitely not common.

No one is claiming it to be common, people were just pointing out that 18 isn't the upper limit of human charisma.

[Godskook]

Charisma is like social lube. It makes interacting with people *EASIER* not *EFFORT-LESS*. Kinda like how coupons make shopping *CHEAP* not *FREE*. Charisma only gets you so far, and among some, not far at all. Hell, some of the most 'popular' people in the world only have 12 or 14 Cha, relying on several lucky crits to get them the rest of the way to where they are.

A good example of someone with a really high charisma is Rayne Summers from LICD. He's probably written with a 20+ Cha, and it shows. However, he still makes enemies and lacks the intelligence or wisdom to maintain anything resembling a long-term relationship with a woman.

[jmbrown]

No one is claiming it to be common, people were just pointing out that 18 isn't the upper limit of human charisma.

It is the upper limit of human charisma. I just pointed out that, using D&D's standard assumptions for world building, no average human could ever have a natural score above 18. If the limit of human charisma is 18, then achieving anything higher than that is superhuman. A 4th level character, magic spells, enchanted items, or being a paragon are most certainly grounds for calling a character superhuman.

I also made a mistake in my math above. The highest level aristocrat is 1d4 + community value so you'll only ever see a 16th level aristocrat.

[Greenish]

It is the upper limit of human charisma.

No it bloody well isn't. Your very own numbers show 1-in-1000 to go above it. If you can go higher with perfectly mundane means, then it's not the limit.

What scores an average human has has nothing to do with it.

[SurlySeraph]

16th level means 4 stat increases. 15 Cha + 3 (Venerable) +4 (stat increases) makes 22 fully possible for a normal human. I really don't see why you're continuing to say that 18 is the human max.

[The_Admiral]

It's about control as well. A high cha character can disaper better than a normal person with the disguise skill. Basicly they can simply get away with more than your average person. People are slow to hate them, quick to like them, easy to fear them, and simple to manipulate. The player roleplays howerver they wish, other people are simply easier to control.

Ah Mary Sue

[jmbrown]

No it bloody well isn't. Your very own numbers show 1-in-1000 to go above it. If you can go higher with perfectly mundane means, then it's not the limit.

What scores an average human has has nothing to do with it.

There seems to be some confusion here so let me rephrase it.

An 18 score is the natural maximum for a human. Using RAW, there's no way for a human to achieve a 19 outside of reaching the 4th level (which the DMG describes as being extraordinary from a world building standpoint), magic, or some weird template. I'm not saying humans can't achieve higher than 18, I'm saying that achieving more than 18 literally makes you superhuman by the default world building rules. A human with 19 charisma is superhuman.