[4E] After 2+ years of DMing it, I finally got to *play* 4E

[Hzurr]

When 4E came out in '08, my group decided to make the switch, and have me take over as DM. Since then, I DM'd almost constantly for a couple of years, and the few times that we did one-offs with other people DMing, I was unavailable or out of town.

So, last night, for the first time, I finally got to play in a 4th edition game.

It was really, really fun. It's been so long since I've just gotten to sit down at a table and not worry about being responsible for the entire game, and just my character, that I'd forgotten what a blast it is to run around as a PC. Now don't get me wrong, I love DMing, but it was just so refreshing to sit down as a PC.

I did, however, take one key piece of information from my DMing experience with me when I created my PC: A well played controller will dominate the battlefield and make otherwise difficult encounters a walk-in-the-park. This gave rise to Fenwick Broockdenarch, Gnome illusionist.

Trust me when I say this: If you ever hear anyone complain about controllers being ineffective in 4E, or not fulfilling their role; it's simply because they've never seen a controller as it's meant to be played.


And...I guess that's it. Not sure if this post had a point, I just really had a blast, and felt like sharing it and opening up a discussion for anyone with a story to share.

[tcrudisi]

I'm glad to hear it! It is always nice to take a step back and get a chance to play.

And I will second what you said about Controllers ruling the battlefield. I'm sure it was nice to finally give back to another DM what they have done to you in the past with that Wizard. heh

Was it just a one-off or will you actually get to play for a whole campaign?

[Kurald Galain]

Trust me when I say this: If you ever hear anyone complain about controllers being ineffective in 4E, or not fulfilling their role; it's simply because they've never seen a controller as it's meant to be played.

I totally second this.

Wizards, making your DM's life a nightmare since 2008. Well, since 1974 actually, but you get the idea

[Sipex]

Good controllers are hard to plan for, you really have to go "Okay this encounter seems balanced for a normal party according to the rules." then overpower it from there, because really, the Wizard will tie up half the enemies.

[Hzurr]

Was it just a one-off or will you actually get to play for a whole campaign?

Not a full campaign, but we'll most likely have another couple of sessions.

Good controllers are hard to plan for, you really have to go "Okay this encounter seems balanced for a normal party according to the rules." then overpower it from there, because really, the Wizard will tie up half the enemies.

Yep, I went with the strategy of "hold enemies in place and let the strikers tear them to pieces." It worked surprisingly well.

[PopcornMage]

Oh no, you'll never DM again now that you've had the fun of being a player...

Hah, no, it's good you've had a fun experience being the player this time, it's good to get out of the throne and be one of the proles from time to time.

It's very refreshing.

[TheEmerged]

RE: Getting to play. Enjoy it while you can The last time I was a player was, let me think, after the Psionic Handbook for 3.0 came out, before 3.5 hit. I got to play for almost a full year.

RE: Controllers. I think a lot of the problem is that people are judging power by how much damage they do. The one in the party I DM right now is played by the 9-year-old daughter of one of the other players, and she's starting to get a decent grasp of what she's capable of. I can imagine how powerful one would be with a proper veteran was doing it.

[Kurald Galain]

Good controllers are hard to plan for, you really have to go "Okay this encounter seems balanced for a normal party according to the rules." then overpower it from there, because really, the Wizard will tie up half the enemies.

The solution, then, is to add moar cowbell enemies.

RE: Controllers. I think a lot of the problem is that people are judging power by how much damage they do.

Yes, that is fairly common. Generally, the best controller powers are the ones that do the least damage.

[Gralamin]

Always good to hear. I'm currently DMing a game with homebrew gestalt rules, epic levels, and about three controller halves in the party + a warlock and monk half. Throw in the DPS Queen striker (Ranger // Rogue using plenty of tricks), and you have some serious power there. Luckily, killing the enemy may only be half the battle .

[anathos]

Did you start at level 1? I hope not, it'd be a shame to not get an opportunity to use powers like Vision of Avarice and Vision of Ruin.

[WitchSlayer]

I find it's easier to be a controller after DMing for a period of time because you understand more how you want fights to go.

[Hzurr]

Did you start at level 1? I hope not, it'd be a shame to not get an opportunity to use powers like Vision of Avarice and Vision of Ruin.

Lvl 11. So yes, I made very good use out of both those powers. They're so fantastic in play (much more powerful than they appear on paper) that I'm very glad I decided to use them.

I find it's easier to be a controller after DMing for a period of time because you understand more how you want fights to go.

I agree. When I was a DM, I think I had a better feel for how much of a difference the controller made, even when the PCs didn't. Now that I'm on the other side, and have a better understanding of the ebb & flow of encounters, it's much easier for me to look at the table, see where the tide of battle is going, and change it to what I want.

[Atcote]

That's really cool man; I got stuck in the DMing deal for a while (mostly because I had the least spare time and the only way I could be sure that I was there was if I told the story), but it feels great to get back into a character, especially giving 4th edition a go; You really don't understand the roleplaying effectiveness of the skills and powers until you give it a go from both sides of the screen.

[Psyren]

This is why I really hope computerized D&D takes off. It enhances both sides of the table; the DM can put away the encounter/random effect tables, stop asking to see people's character sheets and just focus on telling the story; and for those times when everybody is burned out on DMing, you can throw in a pre-made module and have everyone roll up a PC.

Not that I'm at all suggesting you didn't have a blast DMing consecutively for 2 years, but other posts here mention being "stuck" DMing while others are predicting you'll never DM again. The job as-is has too much manual bookkeeping, even in such a lighter edition options-wise.

[Techsmart]

Ah, I am kinda in the same boat, except I'm still waiting to be a PC again. I've played dnd for a little over 2 years now. My first time I played as a cleric, with no clue how to do anything, since the other players were not very helpful. After that, I decided to read the rules and DM myself. 4 campaigns and a handful of one-ofs later, I am still waiting to actually play a character, but nobody else has run a campaign in months. I appreciate the support I get from my players, but I am still waiting to actually play as something. I've never even played as a fighter, barbarian, or rogue...

[Camelot]

The same thing just happened to me recently! I played as two characters since my DMing experience has made me able to handle that, and still was prepared to help the other players when they got bogged down. I played a psion and a monk, and I agree with you about controllers!

It was really fun to finally see things from a player's point of view, and I think there are a lot of things both sides can learn from trying the game from the other side of the screen. I of course can't wait to DM again!

[WitchSlayer]

This is why I really hope computerized D&D takes off. It enhances both sides of the table; the DM can put away the encounter/random effect tables, stop asking to see people's character sheets and just focus on telling the story; and for those times when everybody is burned out on DMing, you can throw in a pre-made module and have everyone roll up a PC.

Not that I'm at all suggesting you didn't have a blast DMing consecutively for 2 years, but other posts here mention being "stuck" DMing while others are predicting you'll never DM again. The job as-is has too much manual bookkeeping, even in such a lighter edition options-wise.

With all these solo adventures Wizards is making, it would be a great opportunity to dip their feet in to something like this.

[Epinephrine]

I've been running a campaign for over 2 years as well, and last night was the first session I played in for quite a while. We were trying to do 2 campaigns, but the other campaign suffered delays and went in fits and starts, so I agree, it's good to be back on the playing side of the table.

[Psyren]

With all these solo adventures Wizards is making, it would be a great opportunity to dip their feet in to something like this.

Well, they are, kind of. That new Neverwinter game will use 4e rules, but no word yet on the DMing aspect.

And it's still stuck in FR my hope is that DDO switches completely to 4e rules, seems that's the only way I'll get 4e Eberron digitized now. And Greyhawk seems to have just been left out of the CRPG scene altogether for a long time now...

[Duos Greanleef]

It's a fantastic, and I believe, necessary thing for the DM to relinquish some power from time to time, and be a PC. Even if it's just for a one or two shot dungeon crawl, being able to play the game without the responsibility of being everything that the PCs are not is just... great release.
I had a similar experience, and i came down to me almost being burnt out on the game completely. The worst part is that it happened right around the start of summer, so all of the extra time that we WOULD have had to play never was utilized in that fashion. I finally got back going again, and things are going alright.
We played a 1 shot wave defense last night, and I got to hand over the DM screen, and lemme tell you this: Elf Avengers don't miss attack rolls.

[Erom]

Good controllers are hard to plan for, you really have to go "Okay this encounter seems balanced for a normal party according to the rules." then overpower it from there, because really, the Wizard will tie up half the enemies.

Honestly, I find DnD like this in general, in all editions I've played (2, 3.5, 4). In 4e I usually take the recommended encounter budget and double it.

[tcrudisi]

Honestly, I find DnD like this in general, in all editions I've played (2, 3.5, 4). In 4e I usually take the recommended encounter budget and double it.

They've upped the difficulty of monster to xp ratio in MM3, so if you are using that one, the monsters are naturally tougher.

[Katana_Geldar]

I was DMing for five weeks straight and got my break last night and played my hybrid wizard/bard. I was loving it and the DM was loving it as its the first time he's been behind the screen for ages and it was improv most of the night. We fought pirates! And I got to swing from the rigging and kick the captain overboard.

Anyone found that you get a few bad habits when you DM too long? I found myself answering questions at times, and introduced an NPC that the DM picked up on and used to get us to the plot.

[Camelot]

I kept correcting people on rules, then catching myself and saying, "But it's the DM's call."

[Tyrmatt]

I spent the whole summer building up a massive collection of D&D 3.5E and 4E books. I've spent the last 6 weeks DMing All Flesh Must Be Eaten. :(

I'd love to get a chance to play but fate conspires against me. I'm even down to DM a Fallout-Unisystem game sometime in the future, having decided that GURPS is just too damn freaking complicated to get people into. I've watched 3 people just sit down in the Unisystem and play with no prior knowledge and only one truly clued up player in the group. He apparently DMs Witchcraft on the side so he's better equipped than me. I rather like it as a system. The only thing is I'm lacking in extra traits, qualities etc for people to take. I should probably look into the other books of the same system.

[Dimers]

Anyone found that you get a few bad habits when you DM too long? I found myself answering questions at times, and introduced an NPC that the DM picked up on and used to get us to the plot.

Not such a bad habit. I now request this of my players when I GM -- they should be free to make the world come alive, detailing weather and accents and random NPCs and environments. If it doesn't involve a whole-cloth addition to the gameworld (like an entire religious organization I didn't make up myself), then I do my best to work with the players' ideas. That takes a load of work off me, and it hasn't been abused yet.