[3.5] Improved Trip: Follow-up Melee with Axe?

[KonamiCode]

Hey Everyone!

I'm in a 3.5 Eberron Campaign, and have a question concerning the Improved Trip feat (go figure).

My character carries an 2-handed greataxe and also has the Improved Trip feat. In combat, axe in hand, he attempts to trip an opponent. As I understand it, this would be resolved by first succeeding in an unarmed melee touch attack (that would not provoke AoO due to IT). Assuming confirmation, I would then need to succeed in an opposed Str test. Assuming THAT confirms, my opponent would be prone and would have the chance to make a melee attack.

Here's where my question comes into play: since the trip itself requires an unarmed melee touch attack, would my follow up attack also have to be unarmed as well? My feeling is that the melee touch is simply to confirm contact to initiate the trip, for example, sticking my leg out. Once my opponent has fallen prone, I can then follow up my attack with the greataxe I've been carrying in my hand the whole time.

The alternate understanding from players in my group is that I have to actually BE UNARMED to make a trip attempt, and therefore my greataxe would not be in my hands and available for the follow-up melee attack.

Please let me know if there's any info I can provide for clarification. Thank you all in advance for helping us clear this up!

[jiriku]

Unarmed strikes are explicitly not made with a specific part of the body, so you do not need your hands free to make a trip attempt. For example, you can trip while holding your axe by using a leg sweep or a shoulder smash. This in the PHB, although I haven't one handy to give you a page reference.

When you make multiple attacks per round (such as via Improved Trip, flurry of blows or having a high base attack) and have multiple weapons available (and unarmed strike counts as a weapon for this purpose), each attack can be made with any weapon you have available, and you can mix and match them however you choose. Exceptions to this general rule exist, such as TWF, but those exceptions are specifically called out in the rules. So, you can trip with a leg sweep and then follow up with an axe swing. This is also from the PHB.

so, battle on, chopper.

[RagnaroksChosen]

I believe you can also use improved trip to trip with a weapon.
Even if the weapon cannot normally be used to trip.

[jiriku]

I believe you can also use improved trip to trip with a weapon.
Even if the weapon cannot normally be used to trip.

Sadly, I don't believe this is the case. Although, 'twould be a reasonable house rule, as tripping is not an overwhelmingly impressive combat tactic past about levels 6-8.

[RagnaroksChosen]

Sadly, I don't believe this is the case.

Meh, May be a house rule. or one of those things we always assumed simply because you can use any weapon on the follow up attack.

[jiriku]

Meh, May be a house rule. or one of those things we always assumed simply because you can use any weapon on the follow up attack.

It's a reasonable house rule, as reach greatly improves the usefulness of tripping at higher levels, when characters are starting to gain lots of ways to squeeze in extra movement and short-range teleportation. Improved Trip + any reach weapon would be a cheap way to trip with reach.

[RagnaroksChosen]

It's a reasonable house rule, as reach greatly improves the usefulness of tripping at higher levels, when characters are starting to gain lots of ways to squeeze in extra movement and short-range teleportation. Improved Trip + any reach weapon would be a cheap way to trip with reach.

I guess thats what makes spiked chains so good is that you can trip with them.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Exotic Weapon Master has a stunt that allows you to trip with a one- or two-handed exotic weapon.

[ScionoftheVoid]

Meh, May be a house rule. or one of those things we always assumed simply because you can use any weapon on the follow up attack.

Just checked the SRD, you may only trip with a weapon that calls out that capability. Definitely not an unreasonable houserule though, I'd probably use it myself if I weren't afraid of overwhelming my players when I show them my list.

[RagnaroksChosen]

Just checked the SRD, you may only trip with a weapon that calls out that capability. Definitely not an unreasonable houserule though, I'd probably use it myself if I weren't afraid of overwhelming my players when I show them my list.

Honestly Im sure if a player did it no one would call them on it unless it was broken... I know we as a group have always let it, though i think it was because we didn't relise it. more then house ruled it.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Well, if it's an unarmed touch attack, just assume (as was said) that you're sticking a leg out or shoulder-bashing them down, and don't apply any modifiers to the attack roll that are unique to the axe (for instance, if the axe is magical, or masterwork, or you have Weapon Focus, those bonuses don't get added into the attack roll to trip, but do get added into the followup attack made with the axe when they go down.)

[Keld Denar]

If you take the Knockdown feat, all weapons become tripping weapons, assuming you deal a minimum of 10 damage per hit.

[Coidzor]

Well, there is a bit of potential confusion where knock-down grants a free trip attack, but it isn't addressed whether one needs a tripping weapon in order to make said trip attack.

Well, if it's an unarmed touch attack, just assume (as was said) that you're sticking a leg out or shoulder-bashing them down, and don't apply any modifiers to the attack roll that are unique to the axe (for instance, if the axe is magical, or masterwork, or you have Weapon Focus, those bonuses don't get added into the attack roll to trip, but do get added into the followup attack made with the axe when they go down.)

Strength + BAB should be able to hit Touch AC anyway if you think the character'll be able to succeed on a strength check to trip someone.

[Dark_Nohn]

You can hold a 2h weapon in one hand if you're not attacking, and if they say that you need improved unarmed strike to melee touch to trip with non-arm limbs, then you can just trip with one hand while holding your axe in the other hand.