[3.5] Giving cold immunity to a red dragon?

[Quietus]

I'm looking for a way to take an Ancient+ red dragon, and add the cold subtype or generic cold immunity to it - the schtick is a dragon that lives among the icy peaks of a mountain range known to contain dormant volcanoes, and I plan to be very mean with some of the feats I'm going to give it - but I'd like to see it have Cold Immunity as well. Going to burn two feats to get Brood Keeper's Heart and Open Heart Chakra (yes, inspired by another thread), so I can give it the Swarm subtype, and the mental image of a dragon that, when threatened, can explode into a flurry of snowflakes and ash is just awesome in my head - but I'd like to justify the snowflakes part by giving it a more or less permanent tie to the frozen mountains it calls home. Any suggestions?

[Douglas]

Well, the easy way would be to just put Energy Immunity on its spells known list. That might not fit the flavor you want very well, though; while it lasts long enough to easily maintain it at all times, it's not sufficiently permanent/inherent to reasonably tie to the snowflakes thing.

[Psyren]

Well, you could just have it burst into volcanic ash...

[Saph]

I'm sure there's a template out there that gives cold immunity - can't think of it off the top of my head, though.

[hamishspence]

There's quite a few templates out there that might qualify. And could even give it the Cold Subtype- making it immune to metamagic that normally allows you to get past Cold Immunity.

Half-White dragon (template can be added to "any corporeal creature") is the first to spring to mind.

Frostburn has a metamagic feat that allows your cold spells to beat Cold Immunity- but they can't get past the Cold Subtype.

Sandstorm has a similar feat for fire, but as I recall, it's better, since it doesn't have a "fire subtype creatures are still immune" clause.

I think there's a spell that can temporarily grant you the Cold Subtype (in PHB2?)

[Quietus]

Well, you could just have it burst into volcanic ash...

That's my fallback, along with having Energy Immunity among its spells known. But that's.. well, it's too easy, and no fun.

I'd like to give it a *reason* why, instead of taking the active volcanic lair that its child currently inhabits, it's living among the snow-capped peaks of dead volcanoes. If there's something that gives it a flavor of "Lived here so long it's become native to it", great. Otherwise, I can take anything that provides cold immunity/cold subtype and refluff it. I will, however, go ahead and say that half-white or half-silver dragon simply won't work.

[hamishspence]

OK- what about the Cold Element Creature template in Manual of the Planes?

I'm not sure if it grants the Cold Subtype though.

Dragon Magazine also has Para-Elemental templates (one of which is Ice) that turn the creature into an elemental.

[Psyren]

I will, however, go ahead and say that half-white or half-silver dragon simply won't work.

Why not? I think a pink dragon would be adorable.

[Lapak]

Give it a Ring of Elemental Immunity: Cold? As Epic magic items go, that one's pretty reasonable. He's an Epic CR foe if he's an Ancient Red, so that falls into line. He could have forged it himself as part of his character background - this is a Red Dragon who has invested in Incarnum and lives in a frozen wasteland, clearly he's directing his energies towards some overall goal, and the ring could fit into that.

[Douglas]

There's the Mantle of the Icy Soul spell in Frostburn that permanently gives the target the Cold subtype. Instantaneous duration so it's not dispellable, too. I think it's 8th level, though, so it might not be within the dragon's personal resources to cast. Oh well, getting it on a scroll would be a lot less wasteful for a creature with Sorcerer casting anyway, unless he's building an army of cold subtype minions.

You'd also have to ignore the Spell Compendium update that reduced the spell's level, made it temporary, and (I think) added a specific clause about the fire subtype (if the target has it, the spell removes it instead of adding the cold subtype). The Frostburn version has no problem with producing a creature that has both the fire and cold subtypes.

[Coidzor]

Two-headed cryo-Red Dragon? Only one head is the cryo and the other is the normal?

[akma]

Ask this guy to make a new dragon for you: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169209

[Quietus]

Why not? I think a pink dragon would be adorable.

Between the idea of a pink dragon and a half-dragon True Dragon, I'd have to shoot something.

Give it a Ring of Elemental Immunity: Cold? As Epic magic items go, that one's pretty reasonable. He's an Epic CR foe if he's an Ancient Red, so that falls into line. He could have forged it himself as part of his character background - this is a Red Dragon who has invested in Incarnum and lives in a frozen wasteland, clearly he's directing his energies towards some overall goal, and the ring could fit into that.

There's the Mantle of the Icy Soul spell in Frostburn that permanently gives the target the Cold subtype. Instantaneous duration so it's not dispellable, too. I think it's 8th level, though, so it might not be within the dragon's personal resources to cast. Oh well, getting it on a scroll would be a lot less wasteful for a creature with Sorcerer casting anyway, unless he's building an army of cold subtype minions.

You'd also have to ignore the Spell Compendium update that reduced the spell's level, made it temporary, and (I think) added a specific clause about the fire subtype (if the target has it, the spell removes it instead of adding the cold subtype). The Frostburn version has no problem with producing a creature that has both the fire and cold subtypes.

These two are the ones I'm most likely to lean toward. fairly simple, none of the silliness of pink half-dragon red dragons or turning him into an elemental. Wish I could get a copy of Frostburn, though, so I could take a closer look at that Mantle of the Icy Soul spell. Also, the spell that gives a creature the cold subtype in PHB2 is 1round/level, so not really the permanent effect I'm looking for. Thanks, though!

Two-headed cryo-Red Dragon? Only one head is the cryo and the other is the normal?

Neat idea, but not for this dragon.. at least, not in the setting I'm in. If he was a follower of Tiamat, then perhaps. But in this setting, Tiamat and Bahamut haven't made it to godhood yet, and the red in question is a co-conspirator/concubine/follower of the (currently deposed) "Queen of Dragons". Perhaps if I use a pre-deific Tiamat, I'll do something like that..

[Beelzebub1111]

Make it a skeleton?

[Coidzor]

^: Well, mutants don't necessarily have to follow Tiamat, now do they?

Wait, aren't there rituals to gain subtypes in Savage Species?

[mostlyharmful]

You could make it a vampire dragon, resistance 20 isn't immunity but it's enough to be going on with, that'd fit the whole *poof* I'm a cloud of ice crystals thing too.

[Telonius]

Would it be possible to make it a Dracolich? They get immunity to cold.

[Quietus]

^: Well, mutants don't necessarily have to follow Tiamat, now do they?

Wait, aren't there rituals to gain subtypes in Savage Species?

Indeed there are, thank you! It's actually ridiculously cheap, as well.. 36k roughly, and like 1400 experience. He could force any 9th-level or higher Cleric with the Cold domain to do it..I'm seeing an opportunity for a fun plot event happening here, involving said Cleric being willing to perform the ritual, in exchange for some heavy artillery support...

I actually got a bit worried at first, the alignment subtype ritual specifically says that you lose a previous, or opposed, subtype.. but the energy subtype ritual has no such clause. So for a comparatively piddling cost, I can now have a Red Dragon with [Fire, Cold] subtypes.. you, sir, get an internets!

[Fouredged Sword]

There is a feat that grants the cold domain spells to an arcane caster. Give big red the feat and have him do it to himself. He also gets some cold spells added to his spell known outside his class progression.

[Coidzor]

Indeed there are, thank you! It's actually ridiculously cheap, as well.. 36k roughly, and like 1400 experience. He could force any 9th-level or higher Cleric with the Cold domain to do it..I'm seeing an opportunity for a fun plot event happening here, involving said Cleric being willing to perform the ritual, in exchange for some heavy artillery support...

I actually got a bit worried at first, the alignment subtype ritual specifically says that you lose a previous, or opposed, subtype.. but the energy subtype ritual has no such clause. So for a comparatively piddling cost, I can now have a Red Dragon with [Fire, Cold] subtypes.. you, sir, get an internets!

Yay! *clutches at it* my preciouss.....

Speaking of which, I should go check through that book myself, if that's the case...

[blackjack217]

Albino red dragon ftw!! (it does not give you cold immunity but it makes them think it has it)

[Tavar]

From the Draconomicon, the Hidecarved Dragon Prc might do it. Plus giving you several other immunities/resistances.

[Quietus]

There is a feat that grants the cold domain spells to an arcane caster. Give big red the feat and have him do it to himself. He also gets some cold spells added to his spell known outside his class progression.

Unfortunately, you can't perform these rituals on yourself.. plus, I DO like having SOME way that this dragon (Pyralis) can interact with the world. Hell, even just one pass of an energy-admixtured fire/cold breath weapon doing 24d10 fire damage + 24d10 cold damage, with a DC of 40+, could be valuable enough for a caster capable of performing that ritual to go "Yes, I'll perform the ritual for you". And that one blast of breath weapon won't really cost Pyralis anything, either.. and now he's immune to cold AND fire!

Yay! *clutches at it* my preciouss.....

Speaking of which, I should go check through that book myself, if that's the case...

Hah, yeah- the rituals in there are pretty neat. You can snag many different subtypes; Any Alignment or Energy, most non-PC-race "humanoid (variant)" ones, aquatic, or even incorporeal. And that's just with the MINOR rituals.

[ericgrau]

Technically by RAW monsters with cold immunity are vulnerable to fire and vis versa. So if you give a red dragon cold immunity, does the game divide by zero? Practically I don't think this was meant to be a hard and fast rule and cold immunity doesn't cause fire vulnerability unless the template says so.

[Tokuhara]

Technically by RAW monsters with cold immunity are vulnerable to fire and vis versa. So if you give a red dragon cold immunity, does the game divide by zero? Practically I don't think this was meant to be a hard and fast rule and the immunity doesn't cause fire invulnerability unless it says so.

No. Fire immunity causes +50% Cold, which is 0 due to the Cold Immunity, which makes Fire +50%, which is 0. I say this, because I played a Barbarian who took Blazing and Frozen Berserker feats, giving him the Cold and Fire Subtypes while Raging.

[DaragosKitsune]

I would assume that the vulnerabilities would be negated by the immunities.

Edit: Ninja'd

[Starbuck_II]

Give it a level in Barbarian + Freezing Rage (from Frostburn book). You gain cold immunity while raging (don't lose fire immunity if had it).

[true_shinken]

Also note this is now a red dragon immune to Shivering Touch

[Kylarra]

From the Draconomicon, the Hidecarved Dragon Prc might do it. Plus giving you several other immunities/resistances.

Hidecarved dragon, unfortunately, specifically disallows you from gaining immunity in the opposing types.

[hamishspence]

No. Fire immunity causes +50% Cold, which is 0 due to the Cold Immunity, which makes Fire +50%, which is 0.

Subtypes, not immunities.

And if you have feats that punch through immunities, vulnerabilities come into play.

Against a Cold Subtype creature with Fire Immunity, the metamagic feat Searing Spell allows you to do extra damage.

The immunity means the spell does half damage (feat allows you to beat immunity).

The Cold Subtype, means the spell does double damage (not +50% as would normally happen with a fire spell)- since Searing Spell does more damage to Cold Subtype creatures than an ordinary fire spell would.

So- both the halving, and doubling, would apply.