Best way to bypass Rope trick & etc

[Raendyn]

As title mentions,

I am looking for easy or fun ways to bypass a party's camp protections.

Usually they use rope trick,that's why its mentioned above, it seems to be better than the higher lvl
"rest protectors".

So i am asking for something that does not yells outright
"I AM BYPASSING YOUR BARRIERS BECAUSE I AM A DM!"

i would prefer some elegance

Any ideas?

[senrath]

Transdimensional Spell. That is all.

[Seffbasilisk]

Rope-a-dope, or, if you prefer, rent-a-dope.

Hire a local hunter, with his hounds, to find them. The dogs track the scent, and then are all confused where it disappears. Hunter looks up.

[Adamaro]

Yeah but hunter needs True seeing or See invisibility

"The window is present on the Material Plane, but it’s invisible, and even creatures that can see the window can’t see through it!"

[Jack_Simth]

Yeah but hunter needs True seeing or See invisibility

"The window is present on the Material Plane, but it’s invisible, and even creatures that can see the window can’t see through it!"

A sufficiently high Spot check will let you know that there are invisible things about:

A creature can generally notice the presence of an active invisible creature within 30 feet with a DC 20 Spot check. The observer gains a hunch that “something’s there” but can’t see it or target it accurately with an attack. A creature who is holding still is very hard to notice (DC 30). An inanimate object, an unliving creature holding still, or a completely immobile creature is even harder to spot (DC 40). It’s practically impossible (+20 DC) to pinpoint an invisible creature’s location with a Spot check, and even if a character succeeds on such a check, the invisible creature still benefits from total concealment (50% miss chance).

(Emphasis added)

So yes, it's doable.

But there's many ways - perhaps one of the patrollers has the Magic Sensitive Reserve feat (Complete Mage - requires access to 3rd level spells), and started looking around when the trail of death ended. Perhaps someone used Permanency on Detect Magic, Arcane Sight, or See Invisibility. Maybe there's a Beholder wandering around with it's antimagic eye open. Maybe the BBEG has a few minions that have True Seeing as a racial ability (Like the CR 8 Erinyes, the CR 20 Balor, the CR 13 Glabrezu, the CR 17 Maralith, or the CR 14 Nafalshnee), or maybe just Detect Magic (Like the CR 1 Hatchling phaerimm from Lost Empires of Faerun).

Or maybe they've got trackers that use logic - think about it: the PC's are working their way through the dungeon, slaughtering everything in sight, and when they get tired, they stop, put up their Rope Trick, and rest up. Tell me, did they think to go back 1d3 rooms before doing that? If not, it's pretty easy to conclude that the PC's are hiding in the last disturbed room, isn't it?

[amaranth69]

Just give them a heward's handy haversack or a bag of holding. Then they can't use rope trick unless they leave the item and everything in it outside.

[panaikhan]

Or maybe they've got trackers that use logic - think about it: the PC's are working their way through the dungeon, slaughtering everything in sight, and when they get tired, they stop, put up their Rope Trick, and rest up. Tell me, did they think to go back 1d3 rooms before doing that? If not, it's pretty easy to conclude that the PC's are hiding in the last disturbed room, isn't it?

Our party is considerably more sneaky than that. We'd go back to find an easily-defendable room with only one door, wizard-lock the door, then use rope trick some 30'-40' down the corridor from it.

[Kobold-Bard]

Just give them a heward's handy haversack or a bag of holding. Then they can't use rope trick unless they leave the item and everything in it outside.

Not sure where but I'm relatively certain Word of God said Rope Trick didn't trigger a multi-dimensional crisis due to extradimensional space.

[Raum]

Rope trick is fairly easy to deal with. Sooner or later, someone tracking or watching the PCs is going to either notice the portal (tracks suddenly ending should be a big clue) or simply see them casting and climbing up inside. Then it's easy...fire. Smoke from a fire will both obscure the area and make getting out difficult even if you rule the RT has it's own air source (and extra-dimensional spaces usually don't). Then it's just a matter of picking them off...

[WinWin]

There are 2 parts to a Rope Trick.

1. The extradimensional space.

2. The portal.

Spell effects cannot cross the threshold of the portal. Nothing says they can't effect portal itself...

Assuming the portal can be detected, it can technically be dispelled. Granted, the portal is only part of the spell, but the dispel only needs to target it (not the extradimensional space 'behind' it) in oder to shut the rope trick down.

Not a great idea to use it all of the time. In hostile territory though, even a spellcaster such as an Adept has a chance of figuring out the type of magic being used if they can 'observe' the effect. In order to preserve vermisillitude, this method of control is best used when the PC's are camped inside a dungeon with intelligent spellcasting adversaries.

Outside of a dungeon, I guess a tracker could find the area where the PC's dissapear. If such a tracker has detect magic or see invisibility (or an ally capable of detecting the Rope Trick), they may be able to put 2 and 2 together.


Other method of bypassing Rope Trick depend on the character or monster. Plane Shift or Astral Projection may work, providing an SLA is used for Plane Shift. The accuracy of Plane Shift leaves a lot to be desired...Considering the most accurate result would still technically place the character out of the area of the rope trick even though planar travel is assured.

[Heliomance]

Just give them a heward's handy haversack or a bag of holding. Then they can't use rope trick unless they leave the item and everything in it outside.

Not true. The only interactions that cause problems are portable hole inside bag of holding and vice versa. Yes, rope trick says it could be "hazardous", but as it never bothers to define hazardous, there are no mechanical effects for taking a bag of holding into a rope trick and you're entirely in the clear.

[awa]

it means the dm needs to come up with the hazarded not that there are none

[panaikhan]

Well, you could give them a ring. A special ring.
Give them an artifact-level ring (so it's immune to identify) that does something useful, but is cursed (so they can't take it off once they discover it's other function).
Make the other function Dimentional Anchor.

[gdiddy]

1. Someone casts dispel on the entrance.
2. Party ends up in Sigil.
3. .................
4. PROFIT!

[Myth]

Send a sneak to see where they are retreating after their battles.
Cast AMF below the exit.
Have a bunch of skeletal archers wait with readied actions to shoot anything coming out of the exit. They can wait forever if they need to, AMF means no Protection from Missiles or the likes. Cheap and efficient.

[Stegyre]

Send a sneak to see where they are retreating after their battles.
Cast AMF below the exit.
Have a bunch of skeletal archers wait with readied actions to shoot anything coming out of the exit. They can wait forever if they need to, AMF means no Protection from Missiles or the likes. Cheap and efficient.

You are . . . not nice.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

@OP: as already pointed out, there are many ways for a creative DM to thwart a Rope Trick.

The real question is, what's the real issue?

If the problem is the 15-minute adventuring day (all spell casters nova in the first encounter, then retreat to the Rope Trick to recharge for the next encounter), you can "defeat" the strategy by simply giving them a quest with a time limit: "The virginal princess has been kidnapped, and will be sacrificed upon the dark altar to Demogorgon at midnight tonight! Your quest is to save her, (and just to insure your prompt cooperation, the court wizard placed a geas on the PCs to insure they'd keep their end of the contract)."

If the problem is that they are always avoiding the bad guys by jumping into their interdimensional space, just arrange for some hot pursuit: while the spell itself is only a standard action, each character must climb up the rope. That takes time, and they won't have much, if any, defense while doing so.

If the problem is simply that you want them to be vulnerable while in their hidey-hole, as already pointed out: tracking and scent can locate where they "disappeared," assuming that location hasn't been identified by other means; Rope Trick is a low-level spell, and one would expect it be widely known among intelligent creatures in a magical world; See Invisibility is also low-level, and would be readily available to most intelligent creatures ("That's why the goblins tribe keeps an adept on the payroll."); finally, Dispel Magic and the Transdimensional Spell feat should both work, the first to disgorge the party from their redoubt; the second to fry them with a fireball even while still in it. Any big BBEG would have access to at least one, if not both, of these tools. (As transdimensional spell also allows one to attack ethereal and incorporeal creatures, it has ready utility at higher class levels and should be in the arsenal of a reasonably powerful opponent.)

[PinkysBrain]

Intelligent items can get detect magic at will quite cheaply.

If they use it within an enemy base just have guard patrols equipped with such items ... after they have been found out you can ambush them, or simply have a large group of enemies demand their surrender. Have one of the guards shout something like "fools, didn't you think we'd notice a magic portal within our walls!" so they realise where they went wrong.

If they use it in the open field for a good nights rest to avoid random encounters ... just let them do it. Random encounters in the night are boring.

[Psyren]

1. Someone casts dispel on the entrance.
2. Party ends up in Sigil.
3. .................
4. PROFIT!

Actually, the party would end up regurgitated onto the ground in front of the dispeller.

Babau demons are GREAT at patrolling the BBEG's lair for Rope Tricks. See invisibility and dispel magic at-will

[Myth]

You are . . . not nice.

Why thank you

[Jarawara]

Well, you could give them a ring. A special ring.
Give them an artifact-level ring (so it's immune to identify) that does something useful, but is cursed (so they can't take it off once they discover it's other function).
Make the other function Dimentional Anchor.

That's a good one! Here's another:

*~*~*

Give them... a Ring of Rope Trick Detection!

When this rare and powerful magic ring is worn, it gives the wearer the ability to detect the presence of the dimensional pocket as created by the spell Rope Trick. Furthermore, it will highlight the entryway to that pocket so that your allies and others can see it too. To detect the Rope Trick, simply climb inside the pocket dimension and it will glow for all to see...


Note: This ring doesn't actually detect *other* Rope Tricks, only the one you personally enter. But it does make that Rope Trick easy to spot for all your 'friends' who are pursuing close behind!

[Tehnar]

Track them to the spot where they cast rope trick, and cast a area dispel in that place. Puff the spell ends and all the PCs are dumped out, take falling damage and end up prone.

Of course you can set up an ambush as well.

The same trick works for MMM and similar spells.

Or if the NPC's don't have access to dispel have them build traps under the location. Bonfires, poisoned spikes, angry hungry creatures, a boulder set to roll on them; the possibilities are endless.

[Person_Man]

Simply put a time limiting factor on the plot. If you don't rescue the princess by midnight, she dies.

I would also add that ambushing your PCs in the middle of their rest once can interesting. Ambushing them repeatedly just makes them take more elaborate counter measures. Instead of using Rope Trick, they use Teleport. Or they hire NPCs to set up a perimiter guard. Or they set up an elaborate series of traps. Or whatever. The end result is that you're just "taxing" their resources so that they can rest and restore their spells. Doing so doesn't really make the game more fun for them. It just means that they have fewer resources for combat and other stuff which they probably find more enjoyable.

[Psyren]

I would expect one or two layers of precaution to be reasonable for a BBEG. For example, Babau patrols aren't farfetched for any high-powered enemy capable of enlisting lower plane help, or a few cultists with Transdimensional Spell. But once the party finds a way around these precautions, don't keep coming up with more; let them enjoy the fruits of their ingenuity.

Of course, it's just as reasonable for the big bad to be Teevoing you as you wander his halls, but then he can just warp in and splatter you all anyway; no fun in that...

[mangosta71]

One of the rooms in the lower dungeon was a mad wizard's laboratory. His experiments turned the whole floor into a Wild Magic zone. Of course, the party doesn't find out about that until their spells start going awry.

[faceroll]

As title mentions,

I am looking for easy or fun ways to bypass a party's camp protections.

Usually they use rope trick,that's why its mentioned above, it seems to be better than the higher lvl
"rest protectors".

So i am asking for something that does not yells outright
"I AM BYPASSING YOUR BARRIERS BECAUSE I AM A DM!"

i would prefer some elegance

Any ideas?

Unless the party wizard has extend spell, sudden extend, or a rod of extend (lesser), he can't be using rope trick to hide out in for a full rest and spell recharge until 10th level.

If you do have a way to extend, you can't hide in rope trick for a full 8 hours+spell prep until CL6th (typically 6th level).

Between levels 6 and 10, there are plenty of monsters (especially outsiders) that get true seeing or see invisibility at will. These monsters could be natural denizens of wherever the PCs are, enemies they have to fight, or creatures that have been bound by planar binding or called with planar ally (both 4th level spells will get you the right devil or celestial that can see them).

[Jack_Simth]

Not sure where but I'm relatively certain Word of God said Rope Trick didn't trigger a multi-dimensional crisis due to extradimensional space.

It's in the FAQ. Basically, the recommendation was to ignore the line (that was actually how it was worded).

Not true. The only interactions that cause problems are portable hole inside bag of holding and vice versa. Yes, rope trick says it could be "hazardous", but as it never bothers to define hazardous, there are no mechanical effects for taking a bag of holding into a rope trick and you're entirely in the clear.

Sort of.

By necessity, the rules as written don't define a rather lot of things. They don't, for instance, define the number of fingers on a normal elven hand. They don't, for instance, define what happens if you're still in a Magnificent Mansion when the spell expires (Rope Trick does, Magnificent Mansion doesn't). They don't, for instance, define what happens if you're in a too-small enclosure when a Reduce Person spell wears off. And so on. There are a LOT of holes in the rules of this nature - by necessity; the writers can't reasonably be expected to think of every contingency, and you wouldn't be reasonably expected to be able to carry the rulebook if they had.

What does the DM do in such instances? The most common methods are:
1) Extrapolate from existing, similar rules
2) Go by what happens in real life.
3) Pick the one that seems most fun / most balanced / to best serve the plot at the time.

So a normal elven hand has four fingers and a thumb (Method 2 - human hands have four fingers and a thumb). If you're in a Magnificent Mansion when the duration runs out, you're expelled (Method 1: Extrapolating from what happens with Rope Trick). If your Reduce Person spell wears off when you're in a too-small enclosure, you make a strength check to burst the enclosure; failure means you're harmlessly contained (Method 1: Extrapolating from Enlarge Person). And so on.

In the case of a Portable Hole or a Bag of Holding in a Rope Trick, it's defined as "Hazardous", but no specific consequence is given. There's a hole in the rules. Method 2 isn't applicable, so some DM's will go with Method 1... and the only existing, similar rule is the portable hole / bag of holding interaction.

If you do have a way to extend, you can't hide in rope trick for a full 8 hours+spell prep until CL6th (typically 6th level).

6th for a Sorcerer; 5th for a Wizard (CL 5, Extended, lasts 10 hours). And, of course, it goes the other way without Extend: 9th for a Sorcerer, 10th for a Wizard (As the Sorcerer only needs 15 minutes to prepare spells, while the Wizard needs a full hour).

[Funkyodor]

I kinda equate sleeping in a rope trick to sleeping in a giant semi-firm bag. It's ok, as long as everyone likes sleeping in a giant pile.

There's always tracking by scent as previously mentioned. Detect magic to discover the faint aura. Dust of Appearance / Faerie Fire / Glitterdust to expose the invisible window. Spellcraft checks to know it's Rope Trick spell. Then the hilarity of the Dispel Magic PC dogpile or Transdimensional Spell AoE or Dispel Magic followed by Black Tentacles. Man, thats quite a nightmare to wake up to.

[Jack_Simth]

Dispel Magic followed by Black Tentacles.

Other way around. You cast Black Tentacles first, so they don't have time to react while you're casting the other spell.

[Aharon]

@Dispelling the Rope Trick

This doesn't actually work without Transdimensional Spell: Rope trick has

Target: One touched piece of rope from 5 ft. to 30 ft. long

so to dispel the spell, you have to either target the rope, or cast an area dispel that affects it. As the rope will probably not be left dangling, but take up one of the spots inside the rope trick, you need a transdimensional dispel.

@Countermeasures
Another countermeasure are Mindflayers and other creatures with plane shift as an SLA. In Dimensional Lock, Plane Shift is defined as extradimensional travel, and the space created by the various hideout spells (Rope trick, MMM etc.) are called extradimensional. It stands to reason that they can be reached via a Plane Shift.
It needs to be an SLA-planeshift because the focus for the spell version might be very hard to come by.
Bonus: The uncertainty of plane shift is averted - it just can't miss by 5*1d100 miles in a space that isn't that big.

[WinWin]

The rope may be the target of the spell, but the rope is still attached to the portal.

You need trandimensional effects to bypass the portal.

The portal only needs to be detected in order to be targeted.

There are no partial dispels. Dispelling the portal removes the entire effect.