Building an effective Magician in Shadowrun 4E

[Swiftest]

Hey all,

The title says it all. Forgive me if this topic has been covered, I did a few searches and didn't see much on magicians, so I'm asking here. I'm building a magician with 400 bp. I have 0 experience with Shadowrun rpg (but I played all the video games back to the old Sega/SNES one back in the day, so I know the world). Currently what I have looks something like:

Dwarf Magician (Hermetic)

Stats:

Logic 6 (maxed stat)
Body 6
Reaction 4
Willpower 6
Intuition 3

Special:

Magic 5
Edge 1
Initiative 7 (will raise with increase reflexes, always sustained)

Skills:

Spellcasting 5
Specialized: Combat Spells (thinking of changing to manipulation)
Summoning 4
Binding 4

Pistols 4 (gotta have a backup right?)
Specialized: Heavy Pistols
Perception 4
Astral Combat 4
Assensing 4

Qualities: Quick healer (to get rid of the nasty stun damage I'll be taking faster)
Mentor Spirit (ftw?)

30 bp spent on credits (150,000 credits, key purchases are a power focus force 2, spellcasting focus force 2, sustaining focus force 3, the usual armor/cheapo comlink/cheapo vehicle/cheapo stuff)


I have the max allowed of negative qualities (35 bp) so I'm currently operating at around 435 BP, but I haven't even purchased spells or contacts yet. I need to slim this down! I would also love advice on spell selection apart from the obvious increased reflexes and heal.

I want this mage to be a mix of summoner, killer, and scout/utility guy, with an emphasis on the killing. I'm not sure if 'combat' spells are better in combat or if manipulation spells end up being stronger (they seem like more powerful versions of save-or-dies from 3.x D&D). Thoughts and help are very welcome!

[hiryuu]

Having played a mage constantly, I'd drop my Body to 4 at most and bump my Magic to 6. With the way Drain works, the Stun damage you do get isn't nasty at all (I played a mage for over a year and the most stun I ever took in accumulation during a single run was four, and that was because I summoned a Force 10 spirit in that fight because we needed a distraction and I figured telling the parking lot to slap the CorpSec at a building we weren't even at around for a couple minutes would work). You're also not going to use Body for much anyway if your team is backing you up right.

You can only benefit from the extra dice from a single focus at a time, so having a Power Focus and a Spellcasting Focus won't stack their dice together. You should probably drop the Spellcasting Focus unless you want it as backup.

[Lev]

Either you forgot to include the augmented attribute points, or you have far too many maxed stats.
I'd take a combination of Eagle Eye and anything you can make a clever plan for.

For a magician, it's all about misleading. If you can obliterate someone into dust and have them think they have to run around like chickens with their heads cut off or helping their downed, or fighting their friends, or licking the floor or messing their pants with some sort of excretion then do it. Saying "HEY LOOK, I'M OVER HERE BLOWING YOU UP!" is a great way to get a bullet through your head.

Line of sight is absolutely crucial to a magician, and you need to maintain this without going into the deep end of the pool where the crazy trolls belong.

Don't rely on magic, some times it's the right answer, some times you will light up like an xmas tree, keep around material contingencies, dirty and mean tricks.

[Zen Master]

Magic in Shadowrun is tricky.

First of all - get the drain right. If you constantly cast at max power and never suffer drain damage - you're doing it wrong.

The reason for this is that mana spells complete destroy any opposition that isn't protected by an enemy mage. Any living opposition. Mages have little to offer when it comes to taking down robots and such.

An example: Mage casts mana bolt (F6) at troll - adding dice for magic pool, fetishes and so on, getting lets just assume 10 successes. Troll rolls willpower to resist - nothing else, getting maybe 2 successes. Troll dies. Done and done.

So being effective isn't really a problem. Being sane often is.

[Lost Demiurge]

First off, don't max your stats. On a human, points 2-5 cost 10 each, but point 6 costs 25. That is a ludicrous amount of points for too little return. Willpower and logic of 5 or even 4 are more than enough, so long as you're not planning to cast BIG spells.

[DeltaEmil]

Stun bolt and stun ball are superior to mana bolt and mana ball, because of the easier drain, their "humane" method of incapacitating people, and the fact that you can still kill people if they're knocked out if you really want to do it.
For drones and other non-living objects, the energy bolt and ball-spells are what you should be looking for.

Don't use any of these "turn-to-goo" or "petrify"-spells or anything similar like that, as they do nothing useful, impose a -2 dice penalty upon you for sustaining the spell, and no, you can't get cyberware out from somebody turned to goo, because you still need a chainsaw to cut the super-dense goo away, because every netto success increases the targets body, making it harder to get the stuff out, which is why that spell has always been dumb and bad since the very first days of shadowrun.

Mental manipulation spells are good, especially the control-spells.

And don't forget cyberware. You'll be fine taking one point worth of alpha- (or even beta-) grade cyberware.
Cybereyes in 4th edition allow you to use the inherent augmentation built inside to snipe targets away in an extreme distance, without having to resort to binoculars or anything similarily archaic fargazing device. Smartlink and a trusty gun (like the average ares predator) or even automatic rifles are also good, because shooting with a semi-automatic weapon is a simple action, whereas casting spells is a complex, and you can shoot twice per initiative passes.
Don't think in D&D-terms where magic users only have access to simple weapons and crossbolts. Modern mages use everything at their disposal. If possible, use cybernetically enhanced initiative modifier like reflex boosters, because depending on the background radiation, your magic can become useless.

The masking meta-magic ability is practically a must-have.

If possible, try to erase your magic signature when you've casted a spell, so that it dissipates faster.

Take the spell that destroys micro-organisms and other stuff, because that spell will destroy lost hair, blood and body parts that can be used to track down you or your team members.

And don't worry about guards who try to focus on "geek the mage first". If they waste their time focusing only on one target, your team members who throw white phosphor grenades or use heavy assault cannons to shred them will have an easy time. In fact, guards trying to "geek the mage first" while heavily armored weapon specialists and super-throwing adepts tear them apart are a sign of incompetence amongst security, and you only need to make some useless illusion and stay behind cover.

And don't use indirect combat spells. They're just almost never worth it. Although they are cool, and blasting people with a fireball is a classic, it's too much of a drain (literally) to use them.

[BRC]

It might be useful to get some skills not based around combat and/or spellcasting. Drop your Pistols skill a little, maybe pick up Etiquette, or grab a couple one point everyday skills, driving, bluffing, ect. In Shadowrun you try to minimize combat, because even a panicking suit with a Saturday Night Special can end up crippling a PC.

[hiryuu]

It's a dwarf, only one stat is maxed out. Body and Willpower could both go to 7 if he so chose (well, not at the same time, anyway, and not since maxing out Logic).

*snip*

This here, this is the best. Way better than my half-asleep at 4AM rambling.

First of all - get the drain right. If you constantly cast at max power and never suffer drain damage - you're doing it wrong.

Well yeah, max power will probably kill you if you're throwing manaball and powerbolt spells all the time, since max power is twice your Magic rating and causes drain to deal lethal damage, but 3-4 points of drain (for using Force 5-6 spells) on a die pool of 12 means that on average, you'll blow off drain like it's a formality in most cases. Pump your edge by 1 or 2 points and you could even decide when to take drain and come up with creative ways to use spells with low drain costs, like the stun series, clairaudience, clairvoyance, Detox (so your runner buds can all hop up on combat drugs), and so on. That's what I was doing, ended up with cumulative 1-3 drain on every run. Sometimes it was physical damage, but eh, I was a troll.

An example: Mage casts mana bolt (F6) at troll - adding dice for magic pool, fetishes and so on, getting lets just assume 10 successes. Troll rolls willpower to resist - nothing else, getting maybe 2 successes. Troll dies. Done and done.

Can't get more than 6 successes on the spell since it's cast at Force 6. A Force 10 stunbolt works, though, and has a lower drain value.

[ryuteki]

You can shave some points by lowering your summoning/binding skills for now. Binding is useful, but gets annoyingly expensive.

Consider the semi-traditional Force 4 Power Focus, which you can get access to with the 5pt Restricted Gear quality.

[Swordguy]

What's the intended power level of the campaign? Are the street sams running around with Wired 3, Battle-tac systems and Panther Assault Cannons, or are they Wired 1 with silenced submachineguns?

Part of the reason I ask is that mages can totally blow open the system (mainly via Mana spells that target Willpower), and you risk cheesing off your GM if you push the character too far. What makes me concerned about that? Your starting list of foci is...pretty big, for anything but a fairly high-octane campaign. You can save a LOT of BP by just starting with a Rating 1 Power Focus and a Rating 2 Sustaining Focus (for your Reflex enhancing spell).

Finally, what spells are you looking at? Sterilize and a Reflex Enhancer are mandatory assuming all books are in play, obviously, but other than that, you should be starting with 2-4 other spells.

Other tips:

You can afford to drop your Body score to 5, or even 4. Armor - specifically electrically-shielded armor to stop Stick N Shock cheese - is almost always far more important. Plus, Drain is overrated until you start casting and sustaining 3-4 spells at a time sans Foci. That's a ways off for you regardless.

You don't need Pistols (Heavy) 4/6. Drop it to 3/5 (or even 2/4) and pick up an Ares Predator IV (integral smartlink) and smart goggles. Net gain (or at least a break-even), for VERY little nuyen.

Binding is generally a late-game thing, something that happens most often once you approach initiating. You can drop it to Rating 1 or 2, and raise it with Karma later. Binding doesn't seem to fit the "Combat Mage" think you're going for anyway.

Drop Logic to 5. Yeah, I know it's important, but maxing stats at game on is almost always a mistake, math-wise. If you REALLY wanna min-max, it's a bad idea. Those 15 BP can go for a LOT of other good stuff, say, oh...a 5/5 Talismonger with 5 BP left over for a 25,000 nuyen magic toy. The contact will be FAR more useful than 1 more die in your pool.

BUY MORE EDGE. Just...trust me on this.

Speaking of initiating, don't be too much in a hurry to start doing this. Yeah, it's a big power boost, but getting into a lodge and all can require some legwork and can (read: should, with anything even resembling a decent GM) make you wind up with some enemies by association. Take your time about it and your GM will appreciate you more.

Honestly, Shadowrun isn't about how powerful you are (and especially not with the 20-dice cap), it's about how smart you, the player, play your character. As long as you can fill your role on the team moderately well (can cast your basic spells at Force 4 or so to start with), the presence or absence of a SIN, alternate IDs, casting and focus licenses, a good cover, multiple safehouses, and so forth are way, way, WAY more important than being able to throw 2 more dice in a combat round.

[Tehnar]

Just a warning, net hits add to the drain you suffer when casting direct combat spells.

So while you could cast a Stunbolt at F6, and get 6 hits, you would resist some 8 points of stun damage (if the target rolled 0 hits on his willpower test). Basically casting combat spells is a quick way to go down by the same spells, unless there is only one target.

A better tactic is to overcast spells, and just use one net hit. For example a F10 stunbolt with 1 net hit does 11 stun damage, and you need to resist 6P damage. Still not a very good trade unless there is only one opponent, but better then before.

[ryuteki]

Just a warning, net hits add to the drain you suffer when casting direct combat spells.

So while you could cast a Stunbolt at F6, and get 6 hits, you would resist some 8 points of stun damage (if the target rolled 0 hits on his willpower test). Basically casting combat spells is a quick way to go down by the same spells, unless there is only one target.

A better tactic is to overcast spells, and just use one net hit. For example a F10 stunbolt with 1 net hit does 11 stun damage, and you need to resist 6P damage. Still not a very good trade unless there is only one opponent, but better then before.

Note that this entire post is only true if you are using the Anniversary Edition Errata. If you play 4th by the book, everything here is false. Anniversary Edition is sort of the "3.5" of Shadowrun, they drummed it up as a pretty bonus edition (and it IS pretty), but ended up slapping around a lot of REALLY vicious errata in it. Most people I know decided that for the attribute-cost change alone they were going to ignore it.

[Swiftest]

Thanks guys, some great info here. I found the idea of a force 4 power focus enabled with a 5 bp quality entirely too awesome to pass up. I took the advice on contacts to heart, too. My one contact is going to be a 6/6 talismonger methinks. I'm also gonna go with stun spells.

What book is Sterilize in?