#/#/#/#/# with claw attacks need help!

[nealpb]

ive had idea that i was working on years. you have to see it in there eyes. living off the Jungle (or the land) with claws as there main weapons, they cant get iron weapons like other ppl can. all they have is claws (no bite), over the years (or know as lvls) they train himself to hit like a figher would (if they take fighter class or warrior ect).

im base it off a template that i find but i need to find a way to get #/#/#/# with claws as like weapons can do with lvl and feats. i can get more attacks (with claws) base of training, feats ect?

the way i see is you attack with claws as you would weapons (swords, daggers ect) so why cant i add feats, lvl training (base off class or Base attck bouns) to get more attacks like weapons can. more then 2 claws. rend is damage not attacks im looking for #/#/#/#/# attacks not damage.

im doing this in pathfinder but i would like so in put in 3e or 3.5e as well.

thank you

[Lhurgyof]

Well... you could always rule that their favored class is ranger (which fits), to get them those tasty Two-Weapon Fighting feats.

Also, yes, the higher your Base Attack Bonus is the more attacks you get with any weapon, even claws.

Feats and other abilities that give you more than one attack would also work with their claws.

[Kalaska'Agathas]

Well... you could always rule that their favored class is ranger (which fits), to get them those tasty Two-Weapon Fighting feats.

Also, yes, the higher your Base Attack Bonus is the more attacks you get with any weapon, even claws.

Feats and other abilities that give you more than one attack would also work with their claws.

Not so. Natural Weapons do not get iterative attacks.

[olentu]

Well... you could always rule that their favored class is ranger (which fits), to get them those tasty Two-Weapon Fighting feats.

Also, yes, the higher your Base Attack Bonus is the more attacks you get with any weapon, even claws.

Feats and other abilities that give you more than one attack would also work with their claws.

Er well that is if the claws are not natural weapons.

[Tvtyrant]

Just add more claw attacks anyway; the game wasn't built to be a straight jacket. I would suggest having them get things like pounce, rake and rend as class features instead though. They add damage to the attacks without having the abandon the rules.

In fact, you could make it multi-attack (claws and teeth) then rake, then pounce, then rend. I read the part where you said no bite, but its very useful to have one (or some other source of natural attacks; they are useful because you get lots of them and they get full strength bonus).

[faceroll]

Just add more claw attacks anyway; the game wasn't built to be a straight jacket. I would suggest having them get things like pounce, rake and rend as class features instead though. They add damage to the attacks without having the abandon the rules.

In fact, you could make it multi-attack (claws and teeth) then rake, then pounce, then rend. I read the part where you said no bite, but its very useful to have one (or some other source of natural attacks; they are useful because you get lots of them and they get full strength bonus).

Actually, claws would get 1x str damage and secondary bite would be at a -5 attack and x0.5 str damage. If bite was primary it'd get x1.5 damage and claws would get x0.5 damage at -5 to hit.

Multiattack is useless for making multiple claw attacks, since they're all at the same bonus.

I would instead give claw/claw at level 1, followed by increased damage dice every 5 levels (1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6) that stacks with improved natural attack, as well as pounce, rend, and rake attacks at later levels.

[RandomLunatic]

Rapidstrike and Improved Rapidstrike effectively get you iteratives with any natural weapon, but the pre-reqs are kind of a pain.

Alternatively, Weapon Focus/Weapon Spec/Melee Weaponry Mastery(Slashing)/Slashing Flurry can give you one extra attack, but the penalties are a bit harsh and it again the pre-reqs make it take a while.

[Tvtyrant]

Actually, claws would get 1x str damage and secondary bite would be at a -5 attack and x0.5 str damage. If bite was primary it'd get x1.5 damage and claws would get x0.5 damage at -5 to hit.

Multiattack is useless for making multiple claw attacks, since they're all at the same bonus.

I would instead give claw/claw at level 1, followed by increased damage dice every 5 levels (1d4, 1d6, 1d8, 2d6) that stacks with improved natural attack, as well as pounce, rend, and rake attacks at later levels.

Huh, guess I was wrong. Oh well, he agreed with pounce, rake and rend so its cool.

You could give them out every 3 levels, so Rake at level 3, Improved Grab at level 6, Rend at level 9, Pounce at level 12, Powerful Charge at level 15, etc.

[Shyftir]

Natural weapons can totally get iterative attacks. A human using Unarmed Strike is in fact using his natural weapons. It's just that as a human we've found manufactured weapons more useful and therefore haven't developed our Natural attacks much. (Monks and Improved Unarmed Strike users are an exception to this.)

The negatives in the PHB for unarmed strikes is just that since our natural attacks do sub-dual damage and have very short reach we get certain negative effects to using them without special training. That being said we are proficient in them because they are natural attacks. (Which BTW means that monks are indeed proficient in Unarmed Strike because everything is automatically proficient in its natural attacks.)

Basically, just give them multiple attacks as normal. The fact that they use their claws is immaterial. A level 20 human fighter can punch you 4 times a round whether they have Improved Unarmed Strike or not. In fact if they take the negatives they can do so 5 times, in effect dual wielding.
That's how you can build a monk's flurry of blows without taking monk, just two-weapon fighting feats and Improved Unarmed Strike.

Monsters aren't built that way mostly because WotC aren't very consistent people.

[Otodetu]

In magic of incarnum you have a new player race, the scarn, they have spikes on the forearms.

Natural Weapon (Spines): A skarn can make one attack
with his arm spines each round, either with his primary
hand or with his off-hand (taking the normal penalties
for fighting with an off-hand weapon). This attack deals
1d6 points of piercing damage; if it is used as an off-hand
weapon, the skarn may add only one-half his Strength
bonus to the damage roll. A skarn can’t attack with his
spines and a weapon wielded by the same arm in the same
round. If a skarn makes a spine attack with an arm carrying
a shield, he loses the shield’s bonus to AC until the start of
his next turn.

Edit: This might be something similar to what you are looking for, i see nothing wrong with having natural weapons that are treated like manufactured weapons for all intents and purposes.

[faceroll]

Natural weapons can totally get iterative attacks. A human using Unarmed Strike is in fact using his natural weapons. It's just that as a human we've found manufactured weapons more useful and therefore haven't developed our Natural attacks much. (Monks and Improved Unarmed Strike users are an exception to this.)

The negatives in the PHB for unarmed strikes is just that since our natural attacks do sub-dual damage and have very short reach we get certain negative effects to using them without special training. That being said we are proficient in them because they are natural attacks. (Which BTW means that monks are indeed proficient in Unarmed Strike because everything is automatically proficient in its natural attacks.)

Basically, just give them multiple attacks as normal. The fact that they use their claws is immaterial. A level 20 human fighter can punch you 4 times a round whether they have Improved Unarmed Strike or not. In fact if they take the negatives they can do so 5 times, in effect dual wielding.
That's how you can build a monk's flurry of blows without taking monk, just two-weapon fighting feats and Improved Unarmed Strike.

Monsters aren't built that way mostly because WotC aren't very consistent people.

Natural weapons follow different rules than unarmed strikes, and the rules are quite consistent with this. One exception being the monk, who seems to lack proficiency with his own fists.

[Curmudgeon]

Natural weapons follow different rules than unarmed strikes, and the rules are quite consistent with this.

Do note that unarmed strikes are natural weapons; they're just a unique case because they use iterative attack rules.

One exception being the monk, who seems to lack proficiency with his own fists.

Monks can also treat unarmed strikes as manufactured weapons, even though they're obviously not.

[Tvtyrant]

You could either have them treat their claws as manufactured weapons the way monks do fists, or you could just introduce a claw weapons and have them use that.

[Melayl]

You could check out my Beast Warrior (see my sig). It has abilities that give it additional natural attacks with one set of natural weapons. You can use that ability as inspiration, or use the whole class.

[Coidzor]

Improved Unarmed Strike + TWF tree + Beast Strike (Dragon #355). Beast Strike requires BAB 5, IUS, and either a claw or slam weapon but lets you combine the claw/slam damage with the unarmed strike damage.

[The Dark Fiddler]

(Which BTW means that monks are indeed proficient in Unarmed Strike because everything is automatically proficient in its natural attacks.)

Not so. The humanoid type says nothing about being proficient in its natural attacks, which every other type does. It also says humanoids replace their racial proficiency with those of its class(es), and monk further says nothing about unarmed strikes or natural attacks. Therefore, monks are non-proficient with unarmed strikes.

[Greenish]

Actually, claws would get 1x str damage and secondary bite would be at a -5 attack and x0.5 str damage. If bite was primary it'd get x1.5 damage and claws would get x0.5 damage at -5 to hit.

I thought you'd only get 1.5x str if you only had one natural weapon.

[olelia]

Only if the creature in question has only one natural weapon...IE rhinos only have a gore attack.

Full Attack

This line shows all the physical attacks the creature makes when it uses a full-round action to make a full attack. It gives the number of attacks along with the weapon, attack bonus, and form of attack (melee or ranged). The first entry is for the creature’s primary weapon, with an attack bonus including modifications for size and Strength (for melee attacks) or Dexterity (for ranged attacks). A creature with the Weapon Finesse feat can use its Dexterity modifier on melee attacks. The remaining weapons are secondary, and attacks with them are made with a -5 penalty to the attack roll, no matter how many there are. Creatures with the Multiattack feat take only a -2 penalty on secondary attacks. The damage that each attack deals is noted parenthetically. Damage from an attack is always at least 1 point, even if a subtraction from a die roll reduces the result to 0 or lower.

A creature’s primary attack damage includes its full Strength modifier (1½ times its Strength bonus if the attack is with the creature’s sole natural weapon) and is given first. Secondary attacks add only ½ the creature’s Strength bonus and are given second in the parentheses.

If any attacks also have some special effect other than damage, that information is given here.

Unless noted otherwise, creatures using natural weapons deal double damage on critical hits.

[nealpb]

You could check out my Beast Warrior (see my sig). It has abilities that give it additional natural attacks with one set of natural weapons. You can use that ability as inspiration, or use the whole class.

thank you for the class ihave to look in to this

In magic of incarnum you have a new player race, the scarn, they have spikes on the forearms.

Natural Weapon (Spines): A skarn can make one attack
with his arm spines each round, either with his primary
hand or with his off-hand (taking the normal penalties
for fighting with an off-hand weapon). This attack deals
1d6 points of piercing damage; if it is used as an off-hand
weapon, the skarn may add only one-half his Strength
bonus to the damage roll. A skarn can’t attack with his
spines and a weapon wielded by the same arm in the same
round. If a skarn makes a spine attack with an arm carrying
a shield, he loses the shield’s bonus to AC until the start of
his next turn.

thank you for the weapon it gave me ideas

Rapidstrike and Improved Rapidstrike effectively get you iteratives with any natural weapon, but the pre-reqs are kind of a pain.

Alternatively, Weapon Focus/Weapon Spec/Melee Weaponry Mastery(Slashing)/Slashing Flurry can give you one extra attack, but the penalties are a bit harsh and it again the pre-reqs make it take a while.

thanks for the feats i should look in to this

I read the part where you said no bite,

the template im using dont give them one but i can see what you are saying

Improved Unarmed Strike + TWF tree + Beast Strike (Dragon #355). Beast Strike requires BAB 5, IUS, and either a claw or slam weapon but lets you combine the claw/slam damage with the unarmed strike damage.

i should look in to this thank you

I thought you'd only get 1.5x str if you only had one natural weapon.

yes one attack per round like bite or gore ect not 2 claws

Natural weapons can totally get iterative attacks. That's how you can build a monk's flurry of blows without taking monk, just two-weapon fighting feats and Improved Unarmed Strike.
Monsters aren't built that way mostly because WotC aren't very consistent people.

Shyftir i agree

now saying that some GM/DM say Unarmed Strike or Improved Unarmed Strike is a Natural weapons some say no there not. but how did Unarmed Strike come form take you claw ball it up like a fist and hit some thing with it. fists and claws to me are the some thing one you are hiting with (B) and the other hiting with (S).

[The Glyphstone]

Unfortunately, the RAW is ironclad on this one particular issue.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbi...naturalWeapons

Creatures do not receive additional attacks from a high base attack bonus when using natural weapons.

Whether or not Unarmed Strikes are natural weapons (note that Monks only treat them as both manufactured and natural specifically for the purpose of spells and effects) is a different issue, but if you want iterative attacks with natural weapons, you have to houserule it.

now saying that some GM/DM say Unarmed Strike or Improved Unarmed Strike is a Natural weapons some say no there not. but how did Unarmed Strike come form take you claw ball it up like a fist and hit some thing with it. fists and claws to me are the some thing one you are hiting with (B) and the other hiting with (S).

Technically, that's a Slam (B) versus a Claw (S). Unarmed Strikes aren't necessarily punches, particularly in the case of a Monk - they can be a punch, slap, fingerpoke, kick, elbow, knee, headbutt, flying tackle, whatever.