[3.5] Knowledge Skill plus Wood Shape

[felinoel]

Here is something I did in a campaign before, I basically used my Wood Shape spell constantly, first for little things like wood shaping little deity trinkets to sell in towns, to using my religion knowledge checks to making an eight foot tall, three foot wide replica of what the town considered their deity to look like. Is this within the rules? I see the only description for the spell states that fine detail is 'impossible' but the only thing it gives for this is moving parts have a 30% chance of not working... so I guess siege weaponry would require a 30% check? How about if one had ranks in Craft: Siege Weapons, Profession: Siege Weapon Crafter, and Knowledge: Siege Weapons?

Looking at the rules I see my DM's route of rolling your knowledge skill in religion before was just a house rule, but what would you guys say about this sort of thing?

[FelixG]

I think what you were wanting to do is prettys much covered by fabricate?

[felinoel]

I think what you were wanting to do is prettys much covered by fabricate?

But I'm just a third level druid?

[gbprime]

Wood shape enables you to form one existing piece of wood into any shape that suits your purpose. While it is possible to make crude coffers, doors, and so forth, fine detail isn’t possible. There is a 30% chance that any shape that includes moving parts simply doesn’t work.

So by rules as written, no. A skill check will not help you make a better product from this spell. As stated, fine detail isn't possible.

That's very different from Fabricate, where it states you can "make an appropriate Craft check to fabricate articles requiring a high degree of craftsmanship."

Fabricate specificly states that you can, Wood Shape specificly states that you cannot. Unless your DM wants to house rule otherwise, that's it.

Your knowledge religion skill lets you know what shape to make it, but the detail is limited. You could, for example, pull off this...

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But not this...

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THis again goes back to your DM and what (s)he thinks is the definition of "fine detail". Certainly the small symbol carvings you've been doing would fall under "fine detail" unless they're just vague lumps, right?

[felinoel]

A skill check will not help you make a better product from this spell.

No, I said that was just a house rule the DM came up with to make the spell less uber

As stated, fine detail isn't possible.

But the rules state that the only fine detail that would have a problem is in moving parts? I could just make stuff that doesn't have moving parts, right?

[Vistella]

While it is possible to make crude coffers, doors, and so forth, fine detail isn’t possible. There is a 30% chance that any shape that includes moving parts simply doesn’t work.

the fine detail part and the moving parts part are two differant sentances so dont have anything to do with each other

you cant do fine details and moving parts dont work 30§ of the time (wether fine or not)

[felinoel]

the fine detail part and the moving parts part are two differant sentances so dont have anything to do with each other

you cant do fine details and moving parts dont work 30§ of the time (wether fine or not)

You sure? Neither I nor my last DM interpreted it that way... it that is the case then it is oddly worded...

[Dalek-K]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/woodshape.htm


You can make moving parts but it has a 30% chance of just not working. So if you had a door/hinge/door frame.. It would have a 30% chance of not working as a door... The spell would make it though but the hinge would be stuck or something.

You can't make fine details ever. gbprime is right with his examples.

Rules:

>You can make moving parts
>Moving parts have a 30% chance of working (at time of creation not each time you use the object)
>No fine details ever

[felinoel]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/woodshape.htm


You can make moving parts but it has a 30% chance of just not working. So if you had a door/hinge/door frame.. It would have a 30% chance of not working as a door... The spell would make it though but the hinge would be stuck or something.

You can't make fine details ever. gbprime is right with his examples.

Rules:

>You can make moving parts
>Moving parts have a 30% chance of working (at time of creation not each time you use the object)
>No fine details ever

First of all, I linked you to that link so shush you, secondly as I said the paragraph is worded so that to me and my last DM it sounds like they are first stating that fine detail can't be made and that when you try to do so (as in with moving parts) there is a 30% chance of fail?

[Dalek-K]

No there is a period there as in .


Ice cream produces yum. Ice cream doesn't melt in the sun....


Does this mean that ice cream doesn't produce yum? You are taking 2 sentences and combining their wording and meaning ... Not sure why either of you would do that.

[felinoel]

No there is a period there as in .


Ice cream produces yum. Ice cream doesn't melt in the sun....


Does this mean that ice cream doesn't produce yum? You are taking 2 sentences and combining their wording and meaning ... Not sure why either of you would do that.

Ah but both sentences are about ice cream, one does not go talking about one thing and then without warning break off into a completely different thing, the layout it is in feels like both sentences are together, they just felt the need for a stronger pause than a comma?

But I guess fine detail isn't that needed, diminutive or just tiny detail would work just as well.

[Dalek-K]

RAW says you lose :)

[Gamer Girl]

Here is something I did in a campaign before, I basically used my Wood Shape spell constantly, first for little things like wood shaping little deity trinkets to sell in towns, to using my religion knowledge checks to making an eight foot tall, three foot wide replica of what the town considered their deity to look like. Is this within the rules? I see the only description for the spell states that fine detail is 'impossible' but the only thing it gives for this is moving parts have a 30% chance of not working... so I guess siege weaponry would require a 30% check? How about if one had ranks in Craft: Siege Weapons, Profession: Siege Weapon Crafter, and Knowledge: Siege Weapons?

Making trinkets and a statue is OK by the rules. The trinkets and statues would not have fine detail, but would otherwise look alright.

If the townsfolk worship Thor, you could make wooden hammers easy enough.

If a town thinks their god looks like 'a strong guy with a sword', you could sure make a wooden statue of that....but it won't look too much like their god, just a vague statue. It might be enough to pass and make some people happy though.

A DM might give you a hard time about 'fine' detail, so a good trick is to stick to simple stuff. You could make an eight foot wooden hammer for the Thorites for example with no 'fine' details.

The spell woodshape will always have the 30% failure chance with moving parts...no matter your skills in craft.

[firechicago]

Ah but both sentences are about ice cream, one does not go talking about one thing and then without warning break off into a completely different thing, the layout it is in feels like both sentences are together, they just felt the need for a stronger pause than a comma?

That's not how standard punctuation in the English language works. A period is not just a slightly longer pause than a comma. A comma is used to separate different parts of the same thought. A period is used to separate different thoughts. If there were a comma, it would be ambiguous whether "fine detail" and "moving parts" were meant to describe the same thing. As it is, there's nothing at all to suggest that the sentence about moving parts is meant to modify the definition of "fine detail" in any way.

[Qwertystop]

Two tips:

• You could make it bigger, and therefore get much more detail in because the details would be larger.
• You could do the fine stuff by hand. I, personally, would rule that if you Wood Shape the sculpture into the rough form, it would drastically decrease the time since the only thing you are Crafting is the detail. If you don't get a decreased time, you should at least get a bonus since you are spending all the time on the detail.