How to ensure your Big Bad is respected

[Paseo H]

Any tips on...

1. Indicating infallibly that said big bad is indeed the big bad without outright saying so?

2. Ensuring that they are given the proper respect and not seen as just another pissant smug snake with delusions of grandeur?

[Curious]

For establishing respect; have him kick the PC's asses at some point. Hard.

Okay, really, I think to establish his credence as a villain, you need to have some sort of big upheaval or some such happen. For instance; collapsing some huge building like a victory column or ancient arch within a city to showcase his power. This is quite circumstantial, however, and it really depends on what kind of campaign you are running.

[TheCountAlucard]

Really, it kinda depends on what said baddie can do.

I imagine if I needed to convince the party that a BBEG was serious business, I'd definitely have my NPCs take said BBEG quite seriously.

Honestly, though, while getting PCs to fear a bad guy can be a walk in the park, getting players to do it may well be an exercise in futility.

EDIT: As for telling your PCs, "Yeah, this guy is evil," without explicitly saying so, make his morals entirely alien in nature. I don't just mean, "doesn't get choked up over murder," either - I mean, give this guy a code that no person attached to his own humanity could follow.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Don't have them be the big bad till the kill the other, lower "big bad" first.

[Worira]

Is his name funny?

Could his name be slightly altered to sound funny?

Don't bother answering, it's yes.

[Paseo H]

Chloe Sheridian is kind of a funny sounding name, I guess.

[TheCountAlucard]

Chloe Sheridian is kind of a funny sounding name, I guess.

Eh, it's not that funny a name, but the players will probably find a way to make it funny.

On a more serious note... I'd advise against just having the bad guy show up out of nowhere to give the PCs a beat-down. Even if he's capable of doing it, it's a little excessively-blunt, both on said baddie's part and that of the DM.

[Frozen_Feet]

The Sauron treatment: tell, don't show.

Keep the players guessing in the dark. Make clear that even the strongest adversaries they directly face are just pawns. Illustrate the scope and vileness of his villainy by having him win a few times regardless of the player actions, by revealing he either had a back-up plan or managed to power through the obstacle they posed nonetheless.

Makes his evil manifest in ways that go outside the game rules - the sky is always red when he's near, wild-life hurries away, there's a stench of blood and sulphur etc. I often find that it's easiest to drive rules-oriented players out of their comfort zones by going outside expected mechanics, evoking the feeling that the safe-and-sound mechanics of the system aren't there to help them. It never gets old for me when players shout "I roll initiative!" when there really is nothing but darkness around.

Alternatively: Wait, this guy is the Villain?

Play the Big Bad as the one who gives the players their quests and rewards. Don't don't make obviously evil or antagonistic at all - rather, play him as a quirky yet oddly affable side-character, someone the players will start remembering the name of after a few sessions, but who won't be stealing their screen time.

Then have this familiar constant of their adventuring life do something horribly attrocious right before their eyes, just before kicking them off a cliff or locking them to starve within an ancient temple (or some other suitably dastardly move).

I both cases:

Read the Evil Overlord list. Don't have the Big Bad personally reveal any of his goals or motives, or at least undermine his reliability by proving them as ruses later on. It's an easy way to keep the players guessing if everything they hear of him is second-hand information.

Don't have him gloat - but do make him insult the PCs. My observation is that all PCs have plenty traits ripe for deconstruction - find some way for the Villain to pick them apart. Extra brownie points if you pull this off without the Big Bad ever being personally present, so that some witty player can't immediatly call him out in turn - it'll leave all the delicious hatred festering in the backs of the players' minds.

Try your best to ensure that eventual failure of the Big Bad is not a result of his personal incompetency, but rather that of his minions. At least once, put the PCs in a position where there is no flaw in the Villain's plans, no way for them to go wrong - expect the (in)human factors of his cronies. And make sure the cronies pay for it (and that the players know they pay for it), invoking the feeling that the Big Bad is not just some static force, but a person who can learn of his mistakes, and will actively outmanuever the PCs if they prove too much of a threat. Arrogance is over-used; sometimes, the best way to make the players take the villain seriously, is to make the villain take them seriously in turn.

Think of Sauron, again. Despite all the efforts taken by the Fellowship, in the end Sauron was right - no-one could resist the power of the One Ring. His loss in the end was much more due to bad luck than his "inability to comprehend good" he and his were often attributed with.

[Paseo H]

But yeah, she's an outwardly charming heroic sociopath, who in reality is a deranged crusader on a quest to become a reality warper.

Or for those who know what this means:

Ore wa shin-sekai no kami da.

[KillianHawkeye]

In my experience, the best way to inspire the proper feelings towards the BBEG is for the PCs to be defeated by him. Note that, depending on the BBEG's M.O., this doesn't have to be a physical defeat in combat. It could be a political victory, or the PCs could simply fail to stop the villain's evil scheme (part 1).



For example, in one game I am in (it's a homebrew game system with a D&D style) our group has come to truly loathe and hate the new villain. The guy is the equivalent of an epic level Bard, and we've never faced him in combat. However, he's super famous and extremely wealthy and by the time we became aware of him he had already insinuated himself into our home country's government at the highest levels. On top of that, he has used a super-strong love potion on one of the PCs' mothers, and the mother is now pregnant and the couple is set to be getting married soon. We at first thought the mother had been kidnapped, but it turned out she had just run away with him, which just made us angrier. Finally, the dude has some kind of enchantment magic that we have almost no chance of resisting, and that he only uses to make people like him.

It infuriates us. Despite the fact that he is human, I selected a mini of a Tiefling with skulls to represent him, because he is the devil. That is how much we hate and fear this guy.



tl;dr- Don't be afraid to make it personal. Have the BBEG rub in how much awesomer he is compared to your PCs. Villains with powerful story abilities are way more interesting than villains that are just strong in a fight.

[Paseo H]

"He's the Devil?"

Interesting.

One of my other major villains has even her most loyal minions saying that she is the Devil, though it is often followed by "and I will obey the devil if it's for the greater good."

This has to do with the topic because said major villain was chosen for special training by another powerful wild card/villain...because she reminded him of the Big Bad, whom he holds in both awe and fear.

[TheCountAlucard]

Keep the players guessing in the dark. Make clear that even the strongest adversaries they directly face are just pawns. Illustrate the scope and vileness of his villainy by having him win a few times regardless of the player actions, by revealing he either had a back-up plan or managed to power through the obstacle they posed nonetheless.

...or perhaps their actions were his plan all along?

Make his evil manifest in ways that go outside the game rules - the sky is always red when he's near, wild-life hurries away, there's a stench of blood and sulphur etc. I often find that it's easiest to drive rules-oriented players out of their comfort zones by going outside expected mechanics, evoking the feeling that the safe-and-sound mechanics of the system aren't there to help them. It never gets old for me when players shout "I roll initiative!" when there really is nothing but darkness around.

This has worked for me in the past. For instance, in a D&D game I ran, one of the baddies would leave behind handfuls of red sand wherever he went, and it really freaked the PCs out when they discovered traces of it in the place they intended to make camp.

Don't have the Big Bad personally reveal any of his goals or motives, or at least undermine his reliability by proving them as ruses later on. It's an easy way to keep the players guessing if everything they hear of him is second-hand information.

Likewise has turned out useful in my games.

Keeping your group in the dark is a massive aid to keeping players and characters alike fearing and respecting someone.

[KillianHawkeye]

"He's the Devil?"

Interesting.

Not literally. But you get my point.

[Rumpus]

Most of these suggestions are for hate, but if you're looking for fear:

Early in the campaign introduce a group of adventurers (the "Heroes") who are obviously way more powerful than the PCs. Have them toss around spells several levels higher than the PCs can manage, relate a story about how the fighter once beat a minotaur to death with his bare hands, whatever.

And then have your BBEG CRUSH that party, ideally in a way the PCs can see the results. Maybe have the PCs set up to provide rear security for the other party when they rush in to challenge the BBEG. Give the PCs a few rounds of holding the line against minions, then have the lifeless body of one Hero blasted out the door past them, and another stagger out, mauled beyond recognition, say something like, "RUN!", and then collapse. That SHOULD clue the PCs that they are way out of their league, at least in a direct confrontation.

[Paseo H]

Hmm...that gives me the idea of her nearly killing some of the npc stragglers in the group just 'because she can' to intimidate the hero, and she does dislike the hero because she sees him as a possible stumbling block between her and one of the other team members that she's been getting her claws into.

That said, she wouldn't kill them, she'd only go far enough to show that she COULD if she wanted, but allow them just enough room to make a full recovery. She's not a monster.

[Waker]

Even if these feats were originally designed to be for an Arcane caster, as the DM you can tweak them to function for anyone you want. All of these are snagged from Dragon 359. But used properly, these traits can give your villain a certain level of spook.

Ears of the Mage: Designate one proper name. Anytime anyone speaks this name that is within 10 miles per arcane character levels is automatically heard, you also know the direction, distance and name of the speaker.

Name of the Mage: If anyone speaks your name other than yourself they are subjected to various fear affects. Equal HD to you Shaken for 3 rounds (no save), less HD than you Frightened for 1d4 +1 Rounds (no save). Those hearing your name make a Will sv (DC 10 + Arcane Levels + Cha) or be Frightened for 3 rounds. Those that save are still Shaken for 1 round. This feat requires no effort or knowledge on your part, your name enough has this power. Mind-affecting Fear effect.

Presence of the Mage: Allies within 25ft gain +1 moral bonus on svs and attack. Enemies get -1 penalty. Natural animals shy away from you when within 25ft.

Voice of the Mage: You can alter your voice to become alien. +1 Disguise, Intimidate and Perform when using your voice. Can speak in normal or whispered tone to characters within 1 mile. You can cause specific creatures to hear you, but you must be aware of their presence and general location. No line of sight is needed.

[Kyouhen]

Most of these suggestions are for hate, but if you're looking for fear:

Early in the campaign introduce a group of adventurers (the "Heroes") who are obviously way more powerful than the PCs. Have them toss around spells several levels higher than the PCs can manage, relate a story about how the fighter once beat a minotaur to death with his bare hands, whatever.

And then have your BBEG CRUSH that party, ideally in a way the PCs can see the results. Maybe have the PCs set up to provide rear security for the other party when they rush in to challenge the BBEG. Give the PCs a few rounds of holding the line against minions, then have the lifeless body of one Hero blasted out the door past them, and another stagger out, mauled beyond recognition, say something like, "RUN!", and then collapse. That SHOULD clue the PCs that they are way out of their league, at least in a direct confrontation.

One suggestion that could make that a little more effective and a little less stereotypical would be to instead make the other party a handful of retired adventurers who still have an impressive amount of power available to them. Have these adventurers offer quests to the PCs once in a while, giving really nice rewards ("Here, I found this a few years back and think you guys could put it to good use") until the players start going to these guys for quests on their own. When the players seem to be attached to them, have one of them mysteriously vanish. Later, have them find his corpse in some horribly unpleasant position. Tied to a tree, head impaled on a spike, nailed to the ceiling, etc. Make sure they find it in the area they're travelling to or in the area of the next quest. If you did a good enough job letting the players know this guy should still be much stronger than them, they should be just a little concerned about what killed him. Don't have them find out what got the guy at this point. Repeat the same thing a few times until the players are thoroughly afraid and you've run out of adventurers to feed to the BBEG.

To let them know it was the BBEG that did it, later on when they go to one of her bases or a similar area, have them find a trademark item that each of those adventurers had inside her personal quarters. Set them up in a nice trophy cabinet with a few other random items. Your players should get the hint at this point.

EDIT:

Ears of the Mage: Designate one proper name. Anytime anyone speaks this name that is within 10 miles per arcane character levels is automatically heard, you also know the direction, distance and name of the speaker.

This. A hundred times this. Have her keep a few dozen scrolls of Sending handy when she isn't expecting combat, and have her seriously screw with the players.

Player A: "Ok, so that's the plan. Let's go get Chloe."
Chloe: "I would just like to say I fully endorse this plan. Nothing can go wrong!"
Player A: "Dammit."

[AtomicKitKat]

Or for those who know what this means:

Ore wa shin-sekai no kami da.

My Japanese is rusty, but I think that says "I am the god of the true world.".

[Tengu_temp]

If you want to show the power of the villain by making it beat up some PCs or NPCs, but not kill them, make sure it has a good reason to keep them alive, and make sure the PCs know this reason. Otherwise you're plunging neck-deep into Beatrix Syndrome.

[Dr. Roboto]

Slightly off-topic question: How long should you have your players know who the BBEG is? I'm not talking "Someone killed these politicians, who could it be?" I'm asking when should the players know that Bob Smith, the evil mobster, is the Big Bad.

I'm asking this because, for example, some games don't give the BBEG enough screen time to let you hate him/her/it. IE,

Spoiler

Show

Sarevok

in Baldur's Gate or

Spoiler

Show

Nihilus (Kind of)

in KOTOR 2. On the other hand, in some things, like in KOTOR, you know the Big Bad's name from the start, as well as what he looks like, his powers, and his plans. What/When is a happy meeting between the two?

[WarKitty]

If you want to show the power of the villain by making it beat up some PCs or NPCs, but not kill them, make sure it has a good reason to keep them alive, and make sure the PCs know this reason. Otherwise you're plunging neck-deep into Beatrix Syndrome.

I find some version of the well-intentioned extremist to be the best at this, or at least the noble villain. Of course the BBEG isn't going to stoop to murder! That would be inhumane! A evil character that is thoroughly convinced that they are good and the PC's are evil can be quite scary - sometimes far more than the traditional selfish evil character.

[Scarlet-Devil]

If you want to show the power of the villain by making it beat up some PCs or NPCs, but not kill them, make sure it has a good reason to keep them alive, and make sure the PCs know this reason. Otherwise you're plunging neck-deep into Beatrix Syndrome.

Sorry if this is a noob question, but what is Beatrix Syndrome? Does it refer to Beatrix from FF9?

[Piedmon_Sama]

You're kind of in a bind. IME there's no way to make a badguy the proper amount of terrifying unless he really kicks the PCs' asses, in which case
1) a Deus Ex Plot (in the form of higher NPCs or a "random" act of chance that is obviously you)
2) Sheer blind stupidity on the BBEG's part
will be needed to allow them to escape with their lives.

I dunno basically the more terrifying I strain to make my adversaries the less my PCs want to "play along" so I've basically long since given up and just focus on bruising them before the end.

Edit: Actually yeah, Nero has the best advice. Which reminds me, the villain in my campaign (Consul Nero) is probably the most effective I've ever run not because he terrorized or embarrassed the PCs like a WWE wrestler on his first performance, but because he's managed to fool the entire campaign setting into thinking he's a normal (if sleazy) politician and get the PCs to work for him for two years out of game. The fact that he, a normal nonmagic using human (Fighter/Rogue) set up all the powerful Wizards in the setting for a huge fall and then elliminated his own coconspirators by setting them against the PCs, before the PCs even knew he was the mastermind, has already made him the biggest badass in the setting, without me needing to directly show him off at all.

[Nero24200]

I have to say I'm surprised so many people have suggestted having the BBEG beat down the PC's/perform some overpowering act in front of them. I personally don't think it's a good idea. Something like that works in movies/novels since they're meant to introduce the villan to the audience. In fact, some films (such as The Fifth Element), don't even show the main protagonist and villan ever meeting.

But RP games are not movies or books, they're games, so they need to be fun first and a good story second. I don't know about you but being beat down without any chance of avoiding it because the DM wanted to introduce an NPC doesn't sound like fun to me.

I think if you want to make the BBEG feared/hated, I think the best way is to do something subtle. Have the PC's try a variety of quests that don't overlap in any way save for a few baddies dropping the BBEG's name in fear. Or even do something like having the PC's meet the BBEG then meet a trusted NPC who hates him/her (which could be quite effective if the BBEG gave the PC's a good impression upon meeting them).

[TheBlackShadow]

Personally, combat and storyline/setting elements aside, I cannot properly stress the importance of the Evil Overlord List. Have the villain read up on this, then allow the players to clash with them and invariably be repulsed several times, and they'll soon start to respect them as a worthy foe, one that even the most genre savvy player will struggle with. Just look at the current strip (#766 for any far-future thread necromancers that happen to read this), and how beloved Tarquin is of the fandom despite being an absolute fiend (figuratively speaking, of course).

[Chaos rising]

My favorite way of making a scary villain is to give hints of their existence everywhere, while still keeping everything about them secret. In the campaign i'm currently running, my main villain has never been seen, he/she/it prefers to destroy society by means of powerful evil artifacts that tear countries apart from within. The most recent boss monster my PC's fought was Morgh the all consuming, a shapeshifting demon that could turn into a scythe. In scythe form, morgh would absorb energy from everything it killed, and when it's wielder stopped feeding it, it would turn into a demon whose power was determined by the number of spirits it had consumed. When Morgh first appeared, it was directly after a massive land war, and it was strong enough to destroy the entire city it was in. Every area my players enter has something like this in it. By now said PC's have guessed that they will have to fight whatever is behind all these freakish artifacts and are scared stiff of whatever it is.

[The_Werebear]

This is a bit of a side note compared to some of the things previously mentioned, but I feel it bears noting as well. Try not to let the PC's find something to mock/insult the BBEG about. Contempt breeds confidence, earned or not, and once they're laughing at your bad guy, it's very hard to put fear back in them.

Example - I had a campaign I was running a while back, where the main enemy was a creator of warforged (which, in the setting, were more like cyborgs than robots. They required a living human to augment). After finding some of his discarded experiments on the borders of their lands, The party had been struggling to keep him and his minions out of their lands for a while, and while initially successful, were unable to keep out a concentrated push by his forces. He invited the PC's to parley, showed them around his operations, and laid down his terms: They provide raw bodies and a base in their lands, he leaves them in power and lends them troops. The PC's are close to swayed at this point. They are in terror of his armies (which are currently inches away from besieging their city with superior troops), somewhat assuaged by his personality, which is pleasant if, firm, and believing what he says about being turned into a Warforged not being an unpleasant process (about which he was lying his ass off)

Then, a PC brings up a point. If the process really isn't bad, then what about those discarded, insane experiments that he initially let loose in their lands. This was the point in which I had a mental gaffe. I had forgot about those, and didn't have a prepared excuse. I made something up about him hitting them with a cart, and them being too traumatized from that. The PC's broke out laughing so hard that I had to end the session for the night, and they never took that bad guy seriously again, even though all it was was a bad lie.

Shortened variant- Stay prepared, and don't give the PC's anything to laugh about in regards to your villain. Humor is the antidote to fear.

[woodenbandman]

frame the adventures so that whatever they accomplish is a waste of their time. Don't overdo it, but a big reveal in the end like "yeah, that artifact of unspeakable evil didn't actually do anything" will make them hate the villain (and hate you, vicariously)

[Vance_Nevada]

Have you considered using cutscenes? It's something video games use all the time to show Villains well above the PCs power level without having to go for a direct confrontation.

I'm not talking about "Villain beats the PCs, no save" style cutscenes, but more the style of "Villain orders underling to go kill the PCs", "Villain intimidates or kills high level NPC", "Cloaked Villain muses in a general sense about his evil schemes to his pet cat" style.

The characters don't see it, and thus can't intervene (so no worries about killing them off, or losing the BBEG too quickly). The players see it, however, and get more interested (thus making the PCs more interested by default).

A short, 1 minute or so, description of the BBEG laying waste to a city, or ordering an underling to kill the PCs (when the PCs just beat tough underling, they'll wonder about how strong the BBEG is), can work nicely if your players are interested in co-operating.

[Kyouhen]

Have you considered using cutscenes? It's something video games use all the time to show Villains well above the PCs power level without having to go for a direct confrontation.

I'm not talking about "Villain beats the PCs, no save" style cutscenes, but more the style of "Villain orders underling to go kill the PCs", "Villain intimidates or kills high level NPC", "Cloaked Villain muses in a general sense about his evil schemes to his pet cat" style.

The characters don't see it, and thus can't intervene (so no worries about killing them off, or losing the BBEG too quickly). The players see it, however, and get more interested (thus making the PCs more interested by default).

A short, 1 minute or so, description of the BBEG laying waste to a city, or ordering an underling to kill the PCs (when the PCs just beat tough underling, they'll wonder about how strong the BBEG is), can work nicely if your players are interested in co-operating.

Alternatively you could have the PCs still able to see it, just put them somewhere they can't actually do anything about it. At the top of a tower with no good ranged attacks while the BBEG is in the courtyard being evil, and when they get down there she's already gone. Or even a scrying pool of some sort.