4e books to pick up?

[Squark]

I'm going to be running my first 4e campaign, and I was wondering if there are any sourcebooks I should pick up. Specifically, are any of the monster manuals or adventurer's vaults reccomended? I don't want to pick up the ____ power series (I am not going to start collecting them all like I did with the Complete Series) or Player's Handbook 3, since most of my players aren't very experienced, and I don't want to overwhelm them.

I own:
Player's Handbook 1 & 2
Dungeon Master's Guide 1
Monster Manual 1
Forgotten Realm's Player's GuideBook with Swordmage and a few feats and races in it. Yeah, I'm still bitter over how they butchered the setting
Ebberon Player's Guide
Ebberon Campaign Setting

(The campaign takes place in Ebberon and will start by focusing on acquiring a few dragonshards of unique composition for the construction of a special observitory, by the way)

[hamishspence]

Adventurer's Vault I is probably worth it.
MM2 and MM3 have a lot of classic monsters in them.

Other books tend to be a bit more situational. If you want all the dragon types, the two Draconomicons are good. If you want a lot of undead- Open Grave. If you want lots of demons- Demonomicon. If you're spending a lot of time on the planes, Manual of the Planes.

And so on.

[Suedars]

Monster Manual 3 (and 2 to a lesser extent) monsters are generally better designed and more threatening than earlier entries. You can bridge the gap by updating old monsters with stats from the DMG errata. Aside from that, the Adventurer's Vaults are nice, but definitely not necessary. The DMG 2 has a bunch of excellent material, but generally doesn't present it in terms of crunchy rules, so bear that in mind if that matters to you.

[hamishspence]

You can bridge the gap by updating old monsters with stats from the DMG errata.

Or get Monster Vault- though that lacks some.

[Cirrhosis]

if you're using a battle mat or similar (miniatures or tokens on a 1" grid) then the monster vault might be a good purchase. it comes with a monster manual with some new monsters and some new types of old monsters as well as several sheets of punch-out tokens with pictures of said monsters on them in the appropriate size (assuming a 1" grid).

there's also a DM toolkit or something in the essentials line that has a smaller monster manual thing and some tokens in addition to some other things you might find helpful as a new GM (as that is who that product is intended for).

the stuff presented in PHB3 isn't much more complicated than the stuff in PHB 1 and 2, really, but some of the classes and races in there are fun.

[Squark]

Part of the problem is I'm worried that the amount of options available will confuse the players.

Also, my rulebooks having sat around for ages, what exactly is the essentials line, anyway?

[Danin]

MM 2 and 3 (though especially 3) make great additions if you plan on DMing. The monsters actually present more of a challenge as well, with reduced health but greatly increased damage and more special abilities (None of this ogre with a single lack luster encounter power and then is reduced to mele basic attacks).

I honestly can't picture making a character without using Adventurer's Vault, its that integral on the player side.

Virtually everything else is situational. I too am not planning on collecting all the X Power books due to my towering stack of 3.5 material that doesn't get played any longer because my entire gaming group likes 4e better. I do, however, love playing 4e Clerics, Paladins and Avengers, so Divine Power was a natural extension for me.

Finally, if there is a specific theme to the monsters you will be fighting (Dragons, Demons, etc.) then it is worth while to get the specific source book for them. Unless its Open Grave, in which case just grab MM2 or 3.

[Squark]

At this point, I'm planning to give my players a wide variety of experiences- The first adventure is set in the Jungles of Xen'Drik, the second will be more urban intruige, while the third will be a more traditional dungeon crawl, so none of the focused books make much sense.

So Adventurer's vault 1 is worth picking up, and I should consider the second or third MM? Any other reccomendations.

What is the difference between MM2 and MM3?

[Meta]

I'm going to be running my first 4e campaign, and I was wondering if there are any sourcebooks I should pick up. Specifically, are any of the monster manuals or adventurer's vaults reccomended? I don't want to pick up the ____ power series (I am not going to start collecting them all like I did with the Complete Series) or Player's Handbook 3, since most of my players aren't very experienced, and I don't want to overwhelm them.

I own:
Player's Handbook 1 & 2
Dungeon Master's Guide 1
Monster Manual 1
Forgotten Realm's Player's GuideBook with Swordmage and a few feats and races in it. Yeah, I'm still bitter over how they butchered the setting
Ebberon Player's Guide
Ebberon Campaign Setting

(The campaign takes place in Ebberon and will start by focusing on acquiring a few dragonshards of unique composition for the construction of a special observitory, by the way)

If any of your players want to play a paladin, please do them a favor and pick up Divine Power. I'd find out what my players wanted to play and then if they were seriously lacking options (like a PHB Paladin) pick up the associated _______ Power. Also, MM3 would be good.

EDIT: MM3 has a different design philosophy than the first two MMs. Lower HP and more dangerous attacks.

AV has a combination of very cool and effective items and then VERY effective and not super-flavorful items. Some items that are basically flat bonuses that most players are going to like for the simplicity plus a few more "centerpiece" items can really flesh out a character

[hamishspence]

What is the difference between MM2 and MM3?

MM3 monsters tend to have "Traits" and "Triggered Actions".

[Squark]

^Sorry, whats? I stopped playing d&d for a long time after my old group finally disintegrated completely (was a long time in the coming, really. We just couldn't get together often enough. Pitty, really), so forgive me if I haven't come across a term.

Lastly, how much overlap would there be from the MM 1 and the Monster vault?

At this point, the only player who has shown any preference for a class (I'm still piecing together the party) showed interest in being a shaman.

[hamishspence]

A lot of overlap- but there are a few MM monsters (Orcus) that aren't in Monster Vault (and a few MM2 monsters in Monster Vault).

Main reason to get it, would be versions of MM monsters that play like the ones in MM3.

Traits tend to include auras, or abilities the creature can use that aren't attacks- or weaknesses.

Triggered actions can be immediate actions in response to your action, or "death throes" that mean the monster's death is still dangerous.

It's more to do with clear, easy layout though. And Solo monsters that are more dangerous but more fragile.

[Meta]

If your group is new to 4e the Shaman will probably be difficult. It can certainly work effectively and awesomely and the difference between the best 4e class and worst isn't too drastic... but the shaman may be the worst.

If it's the fluff that your player likes then I would add Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms (an Essentials book) to your purchase list. It has the Sentinel class, which is basically a leader druid with a party buffing animal companion and tons of cool features.

[MammonAzrael]

I know you said you didn't want to get any of the ____ Power books, but you may want to consider Divine Power. It makes Str Paladins playable. Of course, that is still fairly limited, so perhaps only the player that wants to play a Str Paladin needs to pick it up. Just don't ban your players from using it!

I'd highly recommend Adventurer's Vault, like the others have. #2 has some good stuff, but isn't as ultimately useful as #1.

The themed monster books are great, assuming you want to focus on that type of monster (Dragon, Demon, Undead, etc).

[Oracle_Hunter]

Don't pick up books - get a group DDI subscription!

If you split a year subscription 4-ways, each person needs pay only $20 - less than the cost of a single book!

This will give you (and your Players) a fully updated Character Builder which not only makes building characters easy but it also includes all of the information from all the books published to date - with Errata included!

And - importantly - you as the DM can get Adventure Tools (AKA "Monster Builder") which has every monster every published and can be used to homebrew monsters with exceptional ease.

[gurban]

DMG II for sure. Lots of helpful and useful information for DMs

[RebelRogue]

The Power books are great, but as a DM, they aren't high priority. But if a player wants to purchase and use stuff from one of them, you should definitely let them. But as Oracle_Hunter said, a DDI subscription is probably easier and cheaper for all involved.

Apart from that, +1 on the DMG 2.

Also, if you want to run a Xen'drik campaign, the 3.5 Secrets of Xen'drik book will probably be valuable to you (there's little specific info in 4e about the continent AFAIK), but I assume you've got that already.

[Gralamin]

(The campaign takes place in Ebberon and will start by focusing on acquiring a few dragonshards of unique composition for the construction of a special observitory, by the way)

I highly recommend you pick up 3.5 Eberron books with setting information on what you will be using. The specifics can easily be changed over to 4e, and a number of 3.5 products, such as Dragons of Eberron, have had their monsters converted over to 4e by Wizards of the Coast.

[MeeposFire]

The Dark Sun books are great.

The setting gives you new builds for many classes such as shaman, fighter, battlemind, and warlock. It also gives you themes which are neat new things to add to your characters (more powers). It also has wild talents which are small cantrips for everybody.

The creature book is full of nasty dangerous creatures.

[WitchSlayer]

The Dark Sun books are great.

The setting gives you new builds for many classes such as shaman, fighter, battlemind, and warlock. It also gives you themes which are neat new things to add to your characters (more powers). It also has wild talents which are small cantrips for everybody.

The creature book is full of nasty dangerous creatures.

Second, Dark Sun is one of my favorite 4e books, I almost swear by it.

[Kurald Galain]

I would suggest MM3, because the monsters in there use an improved/evolved formula for hit points and damage, which tends to work better than those in MM1.

I would recommend against DMG2: I found nothing at all in that book that wasn't obvious or that I didn't know already. In terms of helpful advice, the internet (e.g. this forum) is much more helpful.

[Sipex]

DMG2 does have interesting ideas like Object powers and such though. While you can get that online you have to either know about it first and ask or have someone post it randomly.

[Squark]

Don't pick up books - get a group DDI subscription!

If you split a year subscription 4-ways, each person needs pay only $20 - less than the cost of a single book!

This will give you (and your Players) a fully updated Character Builder which not only makes building characters easy but it also includes all of the information from all the books published to date - with Errata included!

And - importantly - you as the DM can get Adventure Tools (AKA "Monster Builder") which has every monster every published and can be used to homebrew monsters with exceptional ease.

Hmm.. That could work. I know that I've kind of struggled with building the NPC's that will be with the party's first adventure (or rather, the first few encounters.... :evilgrin:). Good grief, does a level 5 skirmisher that I'm going to probably only use in 5 encounters really need 7 different powers?? (The PC's are part of a larger expedition... at least until excrement hits the fan)

As far as 3.5 Ebberon books go, I own Secrets of Sarlona, Magic of Ebberon, and Races of Ebberon (and, of course, the ECS)

[ShaggyMarco]

I would suggest a handful of 3.5 Eberron books.

Specifically: Five Nations (if you are mostly playing in Khorvaire) and The Forge of War (if anything historical and/or related to the last war will be included). These are still very useful to me in planning 4ed Eberron games.