Defeating Blindsight

[Skjaldbakka]

I'm joining a game where we are all playing dragons, and wanting to be the sneaky bastard of the group. I'm playing a Copper dragon, and we are starting at ECL 18, going into the epic level ranges.

So I'm looking for a way to beat blindsight. Is there a feat or feat tree that allows Hide/Move Silently to function against blindsight? I thought there was, but was not able to find it anywhere.

[Smeggedoff]

I believe you want Darkstalker from... Lords of Madness?

[Waker]

Darkstalker from Lord of Madness. Negates Scent, Blindsense/sight, Tremorsense. They need to make the appropriate Spot/Listen check to find you.

[Toliudar]

Darkstalker, from Lords of Madness, is exactly what you're looking for.

Edit: an entire cadre of swordsages!

[Skjaldbakka]

Thanks a bunch guys!

[MammonAzrael]

Since you've already got your answer, I'd like to add something. If you really want to be the sneak guy of the group, I'd suggest picking up a continuous version of a Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis. It is only 22k (very affordable for your ECL), and bestows the Dark Template. Both can be found in Tome of Magic, pages 156 and 161 respectively.

Among other things, the Dark template grants you Hide in Plain Sight, +8 to Hide, and +6 to Move Silently.

This will make you extremely difficult to find.

[Smeggedoff]

Since you've already got your answer, I'd like to add something. If you really want to be the sneak guy of the group, I'd suggest picking up a continuous version of a Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis. It is only 22k (very affordable for your ECL), and bestows the Dark Template. Both can be found in Tome of Magic, pages 156 and 161 respectively.

Among other things, the Dark template grants you Hide in Plain Sight, +8 to Hide, and +6 to Move Silently.

This will make you extremely difficult to find.

Second that, it's a very nice item. Boosts your speed by 10ft too

[quiet1mi]

Darkstalker from Lord of Madness. Negates Scent, Blindsense/sight, Tremorsense. They need to make the appropriate Spot/Listen check to find you.

Darkstalker does not negate scent, Gwaeron's Boots for 6000 gp does. It also gives you pass without trace.

[FelixG]

Darkstalker does not negate scent, Gwaeron's Boots for 6000 gp does. It also gives you pass without trace.

heh...boots that erase scent...sorry, just thought it was funny

[Mordokai]

Darkstalker does not negate scent, Gwaeron's Boots for 6000 gp does. It also gives you pass without trace.

Yeah, it really does. As seen here. So while 6k gp is really almost not worth mentioning at ECL 18, it is quite literally a wasted money if you have the feat in question.

[Rasman]

I believe you want Darkstalker from... Lords of Madness?

DING DONG. Winner on the first go.

Best part is there's no requirements, you just get it and it's awesome right out of the box.

[quiet1mi]

First, darkstalker does not erase scent, otherwise I would not need those boots for my beguiler. Second, you can upgrade magic items so it is not just a 6k item in ECL 18, it is a 6-9K upgrade to some boots.

[Tael]

First, darkstalker does not erase scent, otherwise I would not need those boots for my beguiler. Second, you can upgrade magic items so it is not just a 6k item in ECL 18, it is a 6-9K upgrade to some boots.

Unfortunately Darkstalker does negate scent. I'd really like there to be something that beats it (other than touchsight, which is questionable itself).

I quote (from the book):

Benefit: When you hide, creatures with blindsense, blindsight, scent, or tremorsense must make a Listen check or a Spot check (whichever DC is higher) to notice you, just as sighted creatures would make Spot checks to detect you.

[Skjaldbakka]

Well, it doesn't erase scent... you could still be tracked using scent, just not automatically detected by it, per mechanics.

[Halae]

Unfortunately Darkstalker does negate scent. I'd really like there to be something that beats it (other than touchsight, which is questionable itself).

I quote (from the book):

Lifesense, I believe, smashes it to bits. Something from Libris mortis or heroes of horror. either way, it's undead only and has other requirements that I don't know right now

[Mordokai]

First, darkstalker does not erase scent, otherwise I would not need those boots for my beguiler. Second, you can upgrade magic items so it is not just a 6k item in ECL 18, it is a 6-9K upgrade to some boots.

I provided the handy link for you and Tael was kind enough to quote the actual feat for you from LoM. If that doesn't convince you, nothing will.

[poignant123]

So Darkstalker actually removes BO in addition to being awesome? Sounds like something the typical adventurer could use.

[Curmudgeon]

So Darkstalker actually removes BO in addition to being awesome? Sounds like something the typical adventurer could use.

Darkstalker doesn't remove anything; it just tones things down to the point where an opponent has to work at detecting what's left.

[quiet1mi]

I pulled out the darkstalker feat and my Dm pulled out the tracking through scent, you still leave a trail just not strong enough to alert people to your presence.

[Vulaas]

I pulled out the darkstalker feat and my Dm pulled out the tracking through scent, you still leave a trail just not strong enough to alert people to your presence.

Which is fine for your game, but that does not make your former statement true for D&D at large. It's a houserule, plain and simple.

Also, I believe it can be detected by Lifesense, touchsight, and whatever that one is that works through telepathy. The name escapes me at the minute, but I believe many people had the issue that there is no way of hiding from it.

[Mordokai]

So what are you saying? That the feat doesn't work the way it was written because your DM houseruled it?

[Halae]

if you aren't afraid of dipping a level, the warlock's invocation Entropic Warding specifically states that it won't let you be tracked by scent, though it won't work in anti-magic fields. And if that's the case, your DM hates you.

[quiet1mi]

Darkstalker stops them from going, what is that smell? It does not stop being tracked down... they have to work at it...

What I am saying is While Darkstalker prevents you from being detected it does not stop anyone from using scent to track you down later. You can rob them of the +5 bonus to their search check (using scent) and stop the "I see your footprints in the snow."

[Curmudgeon]

Lifesense, I believe, smashes it to bits. Something from Libris mortis or heroes of horror. either way, it's undead only and has other requirements that I don't know right now

Lifesense isn't undead-only; it's actually NO CON SCORE-only. The big limitation with Lifesense and undead is that a simple 1st-level Cleric spell renders it useless if they fail their save: Hide from Undead. So your surroundings may appear lit up by life energy, but you're still incapable of detecting or locating the creatures generating that light (unless you succeed on the Will save). You can attack into illuminated squares blindly (over 400 squares illuminated by each source of life energy), with a 50% miss chance if you guess right.

No, the risk isn't from Lifesense with undead; it's from Lifesense with constructs. That's hard to get around.

[Keld Denar]

No, the risk isn't from Lifesense with undead; it's from Lifesense with constructs. That's hard to get around.

All the better to KILL ALL HUMANS!

[Smeggedoff]

All the better to KILL ALL HUMANS!

If only for the reason of "OMFG! turn off that friggen light!"

[quiet1mi]

I think we have answered the OP question on defeating blindsight...

[mucco]

Do watch about Mindsight from the Mindbender, Touchsight, and Lifesense from LM - Darkstalker won't protect you from that.