Rogue Build, Round Two!

[Amoren]

So, after my first few serious attempts at playing a rogue (and dying at level one due to a critical hit from an undead orc barbarian's power attack, and then dying from a pole arm fighter focusing me and getting blasted with a fireball while unconcious), I'm gonna attempt at creating a rogue again! This one is mostly just an idea I had for a new game, or if my current Swiftblade gets old/something bad happens to him.

Anyway, I was enlightened by a very helpful post here, which clued me on to some ACFs/feats that I was not aware of. I don't think this build I have so far is very optimized (the last level of Swashbuckler could be shaved off for something potentially giving stat bonuses or another sneak attack die, and I could drop three feats for something else and just find another way to get easy flat footed conditions that don't eat up action points). But here's what I have so far, and advice would certainly help!

So far I'm assuming a human or strongheart halfling, probably depending on if I can sneak Able Learner into the build or not.

1) Rogue 1 - Improved Initiative, Craven (BAB 0, Sneak Attack 1d6)
2) Swashbuckler 1 - Weapon Finesse (BAB 1)
3) Hit and Run Fighter 1 - Two-Weapon Fighting, Combat Expertise (BAB 2, +Dex damage against flat footed targets)
4) Rogue 2 (BAB 3)
5) Rogue 3 (BAB 4, 2d6 sneak attack, penetrating strike ACF)
6) Rogue 4 -Daring Outlaw (BAB 5, 3d6 sneak attack)
7) Swashbuckler 2 (BAB 6/1, Shield of Blades ACF)
8) Swashbuckler 3 (BAB 7/2, Insightful Strike, 4d6 sneak attack)
9) Swordsage 1 - Shadowblade, Weapon Focus (BAB 7/2, +1 Initiatve, Manuevers + Assassin's Stance for 6d6 sneak attack)
10) Invisible Blade 1 (BAB 8/3, +7d6 sneak attack)
11) Invisible Blade 2 (BAB 9/4)
12) Invisible Blade 3 - Improved TWF (BAB 10/5, 8d6 sneak attack)
13) Invisible Blade 4 (BAB 11/6/1)
14) Invisible Blade 5 (BAB 12/7/2, 9d6 sneak attack)
15) Hit and Run Fighter 2 - Improved Feint, Surprising Riposte (BAB 13/8/3)
16) Swashbuckler 4 (BAB 14/9/4)
17) Swashbuckler 5 (BAB 15/10/5, 10d6 sneak attack)
18) Swashbuckler 6 - Greater Two Weapon Fighting (BAB 16/11/6/1)
19) Swashbuckler 7 (BAB 17/12/7/2, 11d6 Sneak Attack)
20) Nightsong Enforcer 1 (BAB 18/13/8/3, 12d6 Sneak Attack)

So in total, BAB 18, 11d6 sneak attack, +dex damage, +cha level sneak attack, +dex damage against flat footed (guaranteed with Surprising Riposte + free action feint), +int damage. Or in total, assuming a +5 dagger, total dex of 34 (18 +5 from leveling +5 from tome, +6 from item), int of 16, each strike would do 1d4+11d6+52 damage. The attack bonus for each hit would be +33/33/28/28/23/23/18. Even more damage could be added via sneak attack enhancing items.

So far I think it's pretty nice and not complete cheese. What are your guys thoughts?

[Skjaldbakka]

I would swap out two weapon fighting and improved initiative. That -2 to hit before you have weapon finesse is gonna hurt.

Also, isn't Combat Expertise a prereq for Improved Feint?
edit- checked, it is a prereq, so some manuevering of feats around will be necessary

Generally an very well designed build though, I love the blending of rogue and swordsage with swashbuckler, and might adopt this for my copper dragon (once he starts taking class levels).

although ToB isn't allowed for that campaign, sadly.

[Dragon Elite]

Possibly take a level of warlock for a ranged attack that complements sneak attack nicely and the Shatter invocation for some utility? Other than that, you seem pretty good to go.

[Amoren]

Also, isn't Combat Expertise a prereq for Improved Feint?
edit- checked, it is a prereq, so some manuevering of feats around will be necessary

Wasn't aware of that, I just thought Improved Feint would be useful at lower levels than combat expertise was. I'll edit the feats around a bit now. :3

Also, can anyone check Nightsong Enforcer from Complete Adventurer for me? I don't have access to my books right now so I can't check, but from what I remember it requires Improved Initiative and gives +1 BAB and Sneak Attack at level one. If it does, then its a way to sneak in an additional sneak attack die.

Edit: Or assuming fractional BAB bonus is used, a 3/4th BAB class that gives a sneak attack die (spellthief/assassin) could be used. Or you could pick up a level of warlock for that utility + ranged attack.

[Dragon Elite]

Ranged attack is a touch attack, 60 ft (unless you get eldritch spear) with a utility invocation. You could get the shatter, see invis, spider climb, or even a +5 to any save!

Warlock is a nice class, because of it's unlimited uses, but it's not very versatile. The whole touch attack thing is pretty useful too.

That's my $0.02

[Skjaldbakka]

What really throws a monkey wrench into it is that Invisible Blade ( a melee focused PrC), requires, PBS and Far Shot. Which don't seem to be worked in.

[Saint GoH]

Enforcer is kind of a mess to get into

Base Attack Bonus: +5.
Skills: Hide 10 ranks, Move Silently 10 ranks.
Feats: Improved Initiative.
Special: Evasion class feature.
Special: The character must undergo intensive training
and tests with the Nightsong Guild before she can gain
the class abilities.

But you should be able to meet all those with any average built rogue by ECL 7

[Amoren]

What really throws a monkey wrench into it is that Invisible Blade ( a melee focused PrC), requires, PBS and Far Shot. Which don't seem to be worked in.

I was using the re-visioned prerequisites as stated by the class' designer, seen here. Apparently his original submission was a ten level prestige class combining invisible blade + master thrower. In light of the new five level prestige class they actually printed, he suggested these prerequisites which made much more sense.

Enforcer is kind of a mess to get into
Base Attack Bonus: +5.
Skills: Hide 10 ranks, Move Silently 10 ranks.
Feats: Improved Initiative.
Special: Evasion class feature.
Special: The character must undergo intensive training
and tests with the Nightsong Guild before she can gain
the class abilities.

But you should be able to meet all those with any average built rogue by ECL 7

All of those are fulfilled by this build long before level 20 (when I'm thinking about taking this). Does it grant a sneak attack at level one?

[dextercorvia]

Yes it does.

[ffone]

Wow, Drow of the Underdark is a great source for rogues. Prior to this thead I didn't know about Surprising Riposte (for effectively getting around the errata'ed Invis Blade's 1/round free feint limit) or the Hit and Run Fighter (initiative bonus and Dex-to-damage vs flat-footed foes? awesome, and perfect synergy with Surprising Riposte). Thanks to the OP for sharing and everyone else who shared their thoughts here.

Hmm, given that Surprising Riposte requires Improved Feint (a 'dead feat' when you have Invis Blade) and that some DMs may not accept the RAI / author intent of the Invis Blade prereqs (as logical as they are), is there some other way to turn Improved Feint into a free action? Maybe, at high levels, buying a lot of belts of battle and frequently using 1 charge to get a swift move action?

Also, is there a way to make feint work for ranged attacks? (Yet another silly thing about the 'throwing' prereqs for Invis Blade...I presume the author's 10 level version granted feints for throwing or something). This build is awesome but I think the main weakness I'd run into would be ranged situations (b/c of the feinting, and b/c Invis Blade's sneak attack is dagger/punching-dagger/kukri only).

[Cerlis]

Wow, Drow of the Underdark is a great source for rogues. Prior to this thead I didn't know about Surprising Riposte (for effectively getting around the errata'ed Invis Blade's 1/round free feint limit) or the Hit and Run Fighter (initiative bonus and Dex-to-damage vs flat-footed foes? awesome, and perfect synergy with Surprising Riposte). Thanks to the OP for sharing and everyone else who shared their thoughts here.

Hmm, given that Surprising Riposte requires Improved Feint (a 'dead feat' when you have Invis Blade) and that some DMs may not accept the RAI / author intent of the Invis Blade prereqs (as logical as they are), is there some other way to turn Improved Feint into a free action? Maybe, at high levels, buying a lot of belts of battle and frequently using 1 charge to get a swift move action?

Also, is there a way to make feint work for ranged attacks? (Yet another silly thing about the 'throwing' prereqs for Invis Blade...I presume the author's 10 level version granted feints for throwing or something). This build is awesome but I think the main weakness I'd run into would be ranged situations (b/c of the feinting, and b/c Invis Blade's sneak attack is dagger/punching-dagger/kukri only).

Only thing that comes to mind is the Halfing prestige class that allows you to Flank from 10 feet away. NOt feignting but still sneak attacking from a different angle.

Would only help if you could trade some rogue levels for it though.

meh.

*in races of wild