Why must necromancy be disgusting?

[druid91]

Seriously, they can't just make the good monsters fancy skeletons with an aura... OH NO that would make using it less revolting...


Why must nearly every undead creature worth using as more than a mook absolutely disgusting?

How am I supposed to get my clean evil?

[Scarlet-Devil]

Well, vampires typically aren't (in fact the modern vampire is quite the opposite)...

Edit: Although arguably even modern vampires are still quite unnatractive, being pale, pulseless, and deathly cold (not to mention the fact that they sustain themselves with the blood of sentients) .

[Xuc Xac]

Mummies are basically leather bags of potpourri. They don't have to be old and dusty. If they're dripping with gore, then you made them incorrectly.

[druid91]

Yes most of the basic stuff in the monster manual can be Ok, Once you get into the splat-books however... You get some plain freakish stuff.

[Ravens_cry]

Well, bodies rot. Undead are often made from bodies and, depending on type, rot themselves. Of course, you can give all your zombies rings of gentle repose, but that gets expensive fast. And even a fresh dead body is pretty creepy, blood pools you know, and they don't have the natural movements we associate with living beings. Blinking, breathing, things like that. You know how creepy a of humans are in video games when they try to be 'realistic'? Imagine that, in real life.

[druid91]

I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the freakish things with six arms three legs and no apparent head....

That sort of thing.

Simple shabby zombies isn't what I mean.

[Marillion]

Why must nearly every undead creature worth using as more than a mook absolutely disgusting?

Emphasis mine. An undead creature is not alive; the necromancer has given them enough life-energy to cruelly force the remains of the deceased creature (which may have been lying in the ground rotting away for years) into a mocking semblance of life, enough to make it capable of movement, but not enough to stave off or reverse the decomposition process. Why should he invest such power in the creature? It cannot feel, nor did he raise it for its delightful company - he raised it for one specific purpose, a purpose that does not require a pleasant countenance.

It isn't muscle, blood, and bone that's animating the creature; it's magic. And magic is a valuable resource to be invested wisely in one's creations.

EDIT:

I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the freakish things with six arms three legs and no apparent head....

That sort of thing.

Simple shabby zombies isn't what I mean.

Many of my points still stand. The necromancer who created this thing didn't create it for its charming personality; he created it to kill things. If it doesn't need a head to do that, why give it one?

[AslanCross]

Given that undeath is usually associated with plague, decay, and the inherent unpleasantness of death itself, I think the trope is often justified. The common theme behind undeath is that it's unnatural at best and morally wrong at worst.

[AtomicKitKat]

Because humanity in general has a death taboo.

Ways to get around having rotting bodies usually include flensing them prior to reanimation. So you'd have either Skeletons or Bone Creatures.

[Ravens_cry]

I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the freakish things with six arms three legs and no apparent head....

That sort of thing.

Simple shabby zombies isn't what I mean.

Ah. Well, I guess necromancers, if they are the creators of the undead mind, like to experiment. I mean, if you have already broken all moral mores by desecrating a tomb and bringing a creature to a hideous, lurching, flawed facsimile of life, why stop there? Might as well be hanged for a sheep as a lamb.

[Vknight]

Yeah it is just something that is disturbing for most.

[AslanCross]

I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the freakish things with six arms three legs and no apparent head....

Which monster is this?

The freakish ones I know of:
Bone-dissolving, tentacled horrors (Bonedrinker)
Giant-sized humanoids with 20-foot long, spearing claws (Boneclaw)
40-foot hounds made of animated corpses (Charnel Hound)
House-sized piles of bodies that trample everything in their way (Necronaut)
20-foot giants with rats crawling under their skin (Plague Spewer)
Giant slugs made out of blood (....I forget the name, it's in Heroes of Horror)
Giant, stillborn god-fetuses (Atropal)
Stubborn, undying remnants of stillborn god-fetuses (Atropal Scion)
Horrific, decaying angel-like forms that slough ooze and flesh into a decaying pool around them (Angel of Decay)

EDIT: Oh yeah, the Mohrg: Skeleton with swollen intestines that it uses to feel you up and paralyze you.

The Necrosis Carnex as well: A misshapen patchwork of indeterminate limbs and flesh held together by bolted-on iron bands and used as a reservoir of negative energy.

[KillianHawkeye]

There are plenty of varieties of skeletal undead. Just don't use the disgusting ones if you don't like them.

[druid91]

Which monster is this?

The freakish ones I know of:
Bone-dissolving, tentacled horrors (Bonedrinker)
Giant-sized humanoids with 20-foot long, spearing claws (Boneclaw)
40-foot hounds made of animated corpses (Charnel Hound)
House-sized piles of bodies that trample everything in their way (Necronaut)
20-foot giants with rats crawling under their skin (Plague Spewer)
Giant slugs made out of blood (....I forget the name, it's in Heroes of Horror)
Giant, stillborn god-fetuses (Atropal)
Stubborn, undying remnants of stillborn god-fetuses (Atropal Scion)
Horrific, decaying angel-like forms that slough ooze and flesh into a decaying pool around them (Angel of Decay)

EDIT: Oh yeah, the Mohrg: Skeleton with swollen intestines that it uses to feel you up and paralyze you.

The Necrosis Carnex as well: A misshapen patchwork of indeterminate limbs and flesh held together by bolted-on iron bands and used as a reservoir of negative energy.

That last one. Just the weird pile of limbs affect, Humanoids are only meant to have there limbs put on in a certain manner!

[AslanCross]

I don't even think the necrosis carnex is vaguely humanoid in any way.

[Psyren]

Why must nearly every undead creature worth using as more than a mook absolutely disgusting?

How am I supposed to get my clean evil?

Master of Shrouds

/thread

[Blackfang108]

I don't even think the necrosis carnex is vaguely humanoid in any way.

It's made of people!(tm)

[AtomicKitKat]

That last one. Just the weird pile of limbs affect, Humanoids are only meant to have there limbs put on in a certain manner!

Mr. Fleshwarper would like to speak with you.

[druid91]

Mr. Fleshwarper would like to speak with you.

And my good friend and associate Mr. Animated pile of black sand would like to give him a hug.

[Blackfang108]

How am I supposed to get my clean evil?

Working Plumbing?

[Grommen]

Because good is good and Evil....Is'nt. --The Tick--

Common man, your digging up grandma, bringing her back to some type of life. I mean why stop their, it's not like they need to eat, or breathe. They don't feel pain, so why not toss a few more arms on. Who needs a head if you don't even need to think?

Why do you think you need a "Pocket full of Posies" when your in the middle of a plague?

It keeps the stink down!

Necromancy is, in my opinion, the very heart of evil, nasty, and disgusting. If your character does not want to be that "freekish" I would suggest a new line of work. Say Summoning, or Golem crafting (other than Flesh golems but hay everyone needs a hobby).

[Milo v3]

I hate how every one thinks every undead is evil. Thier are actually good aligned undead. Necromacy is only evil when you bring an evil creature into the world. Have a check at the "Tome of Necromancy" by "Frank & K".

Also thier are tonnes of undead which aren't disgusting.

[Elric VIII]

Well, vampires typically aren't (in fact the modern vampire is quite the opposite)...

Edit: Although arguably even modern vampires are still quite unnatractive, being pale, pulseless, and deathly cold (not to mention the fact that they sustain themselves with the blood of sentients) .

How could they be unattractive? They sparkle in daylight.

Many of my points still stand. The necromancer who created this thing didn't create it for its charming personality; he created it to kill things. If it doesn't need a head to do that, why give it one?

I sometimes like to disguise my undead, it's hard to wear a helmet without a head. I see the point you're driving at, though... BRAIIIIIINS!

Ways to get around having rotting bodies usually include flensing them prior to reanimation. So you'd have either Skeletons or Bone Creatures.

I became a Lich once (I don't recommend it, that +4LA is murder) and I peiodically treated my flesh with mild acid (post undeath) to cauterize it and remove the scent of decay.

I hate how every one thinks every undead is evil. Thier are actually good aligned undead. Necromacy is only evil when you bring an evil creature into the world. Have a check at the "Tome of Necromancy" by "Frank & K".

Also thier are tonnes of undead which aren't disgusting.

I'm playing a LN necro cleric that channels Cure spells and uses undead for good. There's a good article in Dragon 298 called "Shades of Death" that describes the motivations of all necromancer alignments, including CG, NG, and LG.

[golentan]

Why must you insist that such things are disgusting. Heck, your species isn't much to talk of either, human.

It smells bad because it isn't sufficiently preserved. It looks mismatched because it's a mishmash of pieces attached together for best function, since nature was not obliging enough to provide a form suitable to the task at hand to begin with. And it's not humanoid because the humanoid form is absolutely retarded for most tasks.

You want a necromancer who doesn't dabble in the (physically) disgusting, all it takes is a little craftsmanship by the way. For most constructs, bone is nicer than flesh being both more permanent and less prone to janitorial complications. A nice soak in a lye bath gives you clean bright bone, which you can get to a mirror finish with a little sandpaper. For hybridization tasks or projects where that musculature is essential, one should always bear in mind that proper embalming practices are never an "optional extra," and a clean stitch is a sturdy stitch. In addition, the addition of metal, ceramic, or bone plating often contributes to a sterile work environment without hindering most projects in their day to day activities.

[Callista]

Necromancy does harness negative energy--which is inherently harmful to life. Unlike, for example, fire, which can be used both to support life and to destroy it, negative energy exists simply to destroy life and drives undead to do the same. It's death energy, basically. And what one thing do we come pre-programmed to avoid, most of all? Death. No wonder anything made with negative energy is fundamentally creepy. It's our survival instincts coming out.

BTW: Deathless can be disgusting, too; specifically, the Crypt Warden, which is a soul that comes back from the afterlife to animate its (usually rotting or skeletal) body when a tomb is disturbed. Good-aligned, animated by positive energy... I imagine it as a body that's alive--truly alive, not just a mockery of life--because the soul decrees it, but that has absolutely no right to be alive because it's in such bad shape. Almost scarier than negative-energy undead, really, especially if you find yourself trying to fight one. Here's an enemy that will not give up... even though it's supposed to be dead... is so dedicated to its mission that death is a minor inconvenience. And it's not even acting in self-interest, like undead do; it doesn't have that weakness. You can't threaten it and you can't make it back down. After all, if outright dying didn't stop them from doing their duty, what's to say you'll be any more successful at it?

[Ravens_cry]

Necromancy does harness negative energy--which is inherently harmful to life. Unlike, for example, fire, which can be used both to support life and to destroy it, negative energy exists simply to destroy life and drives undead to do the same. It's death energy, basically. And what one thing do we come pre-programmed to avoid, most of all? Death. No wonder anything made with negative energy is fundamentally creepy. It's our survival instincts coming out.

I would not call it "Death energy". After all, our elan vital, our life force we call 'positive energy' is just as deadly to undead as 'negative energy' is to us.
I surmise the the rot and decay, the craving for flesh and blood, the thirst for destruction, seen in many undead comes from the incompatibility of Positive Energy empowered life with this Negative Energy. There may be life on other planes that is just as living as we are, just driven by this alternate vital force.

[golentan]

Oh Callista you flatterer you.

Though I'm not sure I agree with much of what you say. The idea of something as a philosophical threat is rarely enough to motivate people to the sort of instinctive revulsion you see for necromantic tinkerings. And similarly, Death (the abstraction) is less terrifying for most than death (the process), usually because little-d involves direct negative stimuli in the form of pain.

Not that I'd know. It's not like I spend hours thinking about this sort of stuff or interviewing people I know. Because *haha* that would be creepy.

[Mr.Christie]

It's not the undead that's disgusting, its the minds of the people who make all of the disgusting undead that are disgusting.

[Milo v3]

Some undead are disgusting. But then again many undead are less disgusting then thier living counter parts.
Which do you prefer:
A cockroach covered in disease, it vomits on everything to keep itself clean, and when you step on it a goo comes out which makes you feel like your going to vomit
or
A clean & preserved skeletal warrior that never gets sick, doesn't create waste, and if it is attacked thier is no blood or guts.

IMHO undead are just the living powered by negative energy instead of positive. In my campaign thier is even a race that are completly undead, I tell you why. Because Negative energy powers them in the exact way positive energy powers the living. If they die you can animate them as Living Zombies with Positive energy.

[Czin]

I hate how every one thinks every undead is evil. Thier are actually good aligned undead. Necromacy is only evil when you bring an evil creature into the world. Have a check at the "Tome of Necromancy" by "Frank & K".

Also thier are tonnes of undead which aren't disgusting.

The number of undead creatures with an often, usually, or always good alignment (of any kind) throughout all of 3.Xe can be counted on one hand.