Cthulhu fhtagn! Or help with Lovecraftian Gods

[aaron_the_cow]

Howdy GitP!

In an upcoming game, I would like to play a cleric of a Lovecraftian god, however I have only read a book or two, and don't know any myself. I looked around wikipedia, however its write ups did exactly give me a comprehensive look at what there portfolios would be so I could write up their spheres (I'm one of those weird elitests who still play second edition). I was wondering if one you would be willing to provide me a brief explanation of a few, and what they represent. Once I have a starting point, I could read up on them and get the rest myself.

Thank you in advance!

[Xuc Xac]

They really aren't the kind of gods that have spheres of influence like "God of War" or "God of Agriculture". They're just beings that are several orders of magnitude more powerful than any being native to Earth. Like Superman but huge and hideous and apparently thoroughly insane.

[BG]

I'd say don't go with Cthulu. Cthulu is not actually a god, but rather a Great Old One.

Nyarlathotep is always a good choice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyarlathotep

[aaron_the_cow]

They really aren't the kind of gods that have spheres of influence like "God of War" or "God of Agriculture". They're just beings that are several orders of magnitude more powerful than any being native to Earth. Like Superman but huge and hideous and apparently thoroughly insane.

I understand that, but in the stories they have cultists who warship them. They can also be sort of put into terms. I mean Cthulhu for example, he's elemental air (will argue this over water), and his dreams sort of make him a creation god, so summoning or creation would be appropriate.

Also, to use your superman example, you could say that his clerics would get the good domain, protection spells, and be generally in favor of being courageous, generous, and helping people. You could do the same with Batman, Green Lantern, Stephen Colbert, or anyone really, and its even more appropriate for Lovecraftian gods because they are already worshiped in the books.

[Zaydos]

Half the point of Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos was that the gods didn't have spheres of influence, or really any non-insanity inducing interactions with human minds.

That said Derleth had other ideas and did give many of them portfolios of some sort, such as Time and Magic for Yog-Sothoth, and Water for Cthulhu (you know cause the guy that got beaten by drowning is obviously a water god).

Dagon was a deity in Lovecraft, at least to the fish people from Innsmouth, and would have had some association with madness.

And just noticed the 2e thing, which actually makes this a little easier and harder as Deities and Demigods has nothing about spheres of influence and actually combined Cthulhu and Dagon into one being And I was praising the older editions for their mythological accuracy earlier today (in my defense I was talking about the 2e Legends and Lore which surprisingly references obscure myths that contradict mainstream ones; compared to 3.0 Deities and Demigods which I think got their main ideas from Xena).

Any specific Great Old One or Outer God in particular?

[rayne_dragon]

Tsathoqqua is a nice choice too, especially if you want to name your character Eibon. I can also recommend the domains travel and trickery for him. Also you can read/listen to the Door to Saturn to get an idea of why I like him so much.

I'm pretty sure there's a d20 Call of Cthulhu suppliment that stats out most of the pantheon, although I don't remember if they suggest domains.

Edit: Sorry, didn't read that you're playing 2nd, I just assumed 3rd since the title didn't specify otherwise. My memory on the spheres is foggy at best, but if you can find the domains for the 3rd edition ones you can probably infer the spheres.

[aaron_the_cow]

Half the point of Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos was that the gods didn't have spheres of influence, or really any non-insanity inducing interactions with human minds.

That said Derleth had other ideas and did give many of them portfolios of some sort, such as Time and Magic for Yog-Sothoth, and Water for Cthulhu (you know cause the guy that got beaten by drowning is obviously a water god).

Dagon was a deity in Lovecraft, at least to the fish people from Innsmouth, and would have had some association with madness.

And just noticed the 2e thing, which actually makes this a little easier and harder as Deities and Demigods has nothing about spheres of influence and actually combined Cthulhu and Dagon into one being And I was praising the older editions for their mythological accuracy earlier today (in my defense I was talking about the 2e Legends and Lore which surprisingly references obscure myths that contradict mainstream ones; compared to 3.0 Deities and Demigods which I think got their main ideas from Xena).

Any specific Great Old One or Outer God in particular?

I play a homebrewed version of 2e in which the only clerics can be specialty clerics However, if you tell me a god or two which are interesting and what book to read to learn about their story, I will do all the sphere stuff myself. As far as what god, I don't really have any ideas, that why I came here and asked. I only know I don't want to warship Cthulhu.

I'd say don't go with Cthulu. Cthulu is not actually a god, but rather a Great Old One.

Nyarlathotep is always a good choice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyarlathotep

Sounds interesting, but also very different from the other Lovecraftian Gods, I think I will read the story and see what I can come up with.

[Gorgondantess]

They really aren't the kind of gods that have spheres of influence like "God of War" or "God of Agriculture". They're just beings that are several orders of magnitude more powerful than any being native to Earth. Like Superman but huge and hideous and apparently thoroughly insane.

Actually, they do. Kindof. See, most people confuse beings like Cthulhu with the gods, but they're just... not a god. But close enough, see.
The only actual named gods are: Nyarlathotep, Shub Niggurath, Yog Sothoth, Azathoth, and maybe Abhoth, but he's just weird. And they do, in fact, have "portfolios".
Nyarlathotep is the only god that takes a direct interest in goings-on. He's definitely the most active, and he's not much of a fighter- sortof a trickster deity, if you need to think of him that way. Maybe think Loki gone horribly, horribly wrong. Spheres would likely be Astral, Charm, Creation, Divination, Necromantic, and Summoning. Something like that. Maybe animal. He's a shapeshifter, by the by.
Shub Niggurath is a sortof life god. She creates creatures, animals, stuff like that- the easiest way to do Shub Niggurath would just be to have her be a druid-only god. If not, Animal, Astral, Creation, Elemental, Necromantic, Plant, Summoning, & Weather could all be choices.
Yog Sothoth is the Gate and the Key, god of space/time. He's everywhere at once, and nowhere. I'd go for Astral, Creation, Divination, Necromantic, and Summoning would all work.
Azathoth is just... Azathoth. Blind idiot god at the center of the universe. Not much to say there, really. If I had to stat him up, I'd go for Astral, Combat, Creation, Guardian, Protection and Summoning.
All cthulloid deities should have astral. That's just a given. Summoning too, and creation or divination or necromantic as minor spheres.
Note that I'm just using the PHB for spheres, so I only have the handful above.

Really, though, I'd advise just not having cthulloid deities. Most of them don't even answer prayers, and if they do it's to eat their worshipers. They don't care. The only one who actually does is Nyarlathotep, but you don't worship him so much as you make a Faustian Pact with him, which always ends up going horribly, horribly wrong.

[Zaydos]

Looking at the 2e PHB to refresh my memory of domains (it's been years since I've played sweet, sweet 2e):

For pretty much any of them I'd say Major Access to:
All
Astral
Necromantic
Summoning

With at least Minor Access to:
Charm
Divination

Depending upon deity more spheres would be appropriate such as Yog-Sothoth I might suggest (note I don't actually know how many spheres are appropriate/balanced for a 2e deity):
Major Access to: All, Astral, Divination, Necromantic, Numbers, Summoning, Time, Wards.
Minor Access to: Charm, Thought (maybe Major?)
Also maybe minor access to Chaos.

[aaron_the_cow]

Really, though, I'd advise just not having cthulloid deities. Most of them don't even answer prayers, and if they do it's to eat their worshipers. They don't care. The only one who actually does is Nyarlathotep, but you don't worship him so much as you make a Faustian Pact with him, which always ends up going horribly, horribly wrong.

I was thinking that it would be more like worshiping them let you tap into some of the power that they have, and wether or not they notice it you have to gain it by doing certain rituals and acts that align with things they want/ would do.

Looking at the 2e PHB to refresh my memory of domains (it's been years since I've played sweet, sweet 2e):

For pretty much any of them I'd say Major Access to:
All
Astral
Necromantic
Summoning

With at least Minor Access to:
Charm
Divination

Depending upon deity more spheres would be appropriate such as Yog-Sothoth I might suggest (note I don't actually know how many spheres are appropriate/balanced for a 2e deity):
Major Access to: All, Astral, Divination, Necromantic, Numbers, Summoning, Time, Wards.
Minor Access to: Charm, Thought (maybe Major?)
Also maybe minor access to Chaos.

I agree that Astral, Necromantic and Divination should be major for all, I think Summoning, Time, and probobly Chaos should be minors.

[WalkingTarget]

I'm pretty sure there's a d20 Call of Cthulhu suppliment that stats out most of the pantheon, although I don't remember if they suggest domains.

Edit: Sorry, didn't read that you're playing 2nd, I just assumed 3rd since the title didn't specify otherwise. My memory on the spheres is foggy at best, but if you can find the domains for the 3rd edition ones you can probably infer the spheres.

Ok, so first off, all of the qualifiers the others have suggested are applicable - part of the point of Lovecraftian monstrosities is that they defy human understanding on a fundamental level and I don't personally feel that D&D's concept of deities and cleric-type powers are appropriate, but that's no reason to be a party-pooper and tell you it's badwrongfun. I agree with the suggestions others have made, but...

I'm a Lovecraft nerd and had a good deal on the D20 version of Call of Cthulhu several years ago at GenCon, so I have a copy if the "official" 3rd edition domains interest you.

Azathoth's domains are Evil, Chaos, Madness, and Death.
Hastur: Chaos, Destruction, Evil, Madness.
Nyarlathotep: Chaos, Destruction, Madness, Magic, Trickery.
Shub-Niggurath: Animal, Chaos, Evil, Earth, Plant
Yog-Sothoth: Chaos, Luck, Protection, Travel

Cthulhu is also shoehorned into this group despite the problems with that which have been mentioned.
Cthulhu: Evil, Death, Destruction, and () Water.

[Xuc Xac]

I understand that, but in the stories they have cultists who warship them.

The cultists pray to them, but they don't get anything from it. They aren't "clerics" in D&D terms. The cultists who can cast spells don't have god-granted powers. They just have the knowledge of how to cast a spell. If the gods of the Cthulhu Mythos grant spells at all, it's like handing a follower a book of arcane spells and saying "here, this will explain how the universe really works, have fun".

That's why cultists appear insane. They have an idea of how the universe really works. The things they do that look crazy to normal people actually make sense, but only if you know what they know.

Imagine there's a primitive tribe of people living in the jungle somewhere. They live on a diet of fruit, vegetables, and pork. They have fire, but they don't cook anything and have no understanding of germs. They consider even minor injuries to be deadly serious because infections are common. People don't live very long because eating that raw pork and trying to fight off constant minor infections is taxing to their health. Then one day, you come along. They attack you as a bizarre outsider, so you shoot a few of them with an automatic rifle. Suddenly, you're the thunder god. One local village offers you a fancy hut to live in as your temple and they give you offerings of food. You don't want raw pork, so you show them how to clean it and cook it completely. You also teach them about germs and how to boil water to purify it. You teach them how to make soap and the importance of washing with it. You teach them how to wash and dress injuries with sterile bandages. Suddenly, your little group of villagers are performing incomprehensible bizarre rituals as far as the other primitives are concerned. They burn their food before eating it. They smear their bodies with bubbly goo as part of a daily purification ritual. When they get hurt, they cover the injury with boiled plant fibers. It looks completely insane. But now your worshipers survive wounds that would be fatal to anyone else and they don't get stricken down by random diseases anymore. They have gained great power at the cost of their sanity.

That's what Cthulhu cultists are like, but to an even greater extent. In Lovecraft's stories, human understanding of the universe is deeply flawed and completely wrong like a blind man who feels an elephant's tail and says "It's a rope". Humanity lacks the capacity to understand the full nature of the universe. A cultist who finds out even a little bit of that true nature and acts accordingly appears insane to everyone else. It's the same with the bizarre phobias and fetishes that investigators develop. To normal people, a phobia of rooms with right angled corners would seem irrational, but it's a perfectly rational response for someone who knows about the Hounds of Tindalos. Just like people in the 18th century would think you had a bizarre phobia of pewter because you refuse to eat or drink out of lead vessels. To you, ingesting lead is a rational thing to avoid. To them, it's quite eccentric behavior.

That said, you could pick a random Mythos god for your cleric to worship, but you'd pretty much only be using the name and making up the rest of the D&D cleric stuff like spheres/domains.

[Analytica]

The cultists pray to them, but they don't get anything from it. They aren't "clerics" in D&D terms. The cultists who can cast spells don't have god-granted powers. They just have the knowledge of how to cast a spell. If the gods of the Cthulhu Mythos grant spells at all, it's like handing a follower a book of arcane spells and saying "here, this will explain how the universe really works, have fun"

I would tend to interpret that as the spells working because of the gods, though. Basically that the spells invoke communication protocols made by older and stronger races, which means that when the words are spoken at the right times, in the right places, and with the right sacrifices present, the god reaches out and responds. Not caringly, probably not even understanding the request as such, but following some set scheme. To me this seems very much like an indifferent deity granting spells.

[WalkingTarget]

To me this seems very much like an indifferent deity granting spells.

I disagree. "Magic" in Lovecraftian games has almost always struck me as working more like D&D's arcane casting. There's no "entity" actually responsible, it's the practitioner knowing the real rules of the universe. I thought Xuc's primitive tribe analogy to be very apt, actually. You can fluff it however you like in your games, of course.

[some guy]

I disagree. "Magic" in Lovecraftian games has almost always struck me as working more like D&D's arcane casting. There's no "entity" actually responsible, it's the practitioner knowing the real rules of the universe. I thought Xuc's primitive tribe analogy to be very apt, actually. You can fluff it however you like in your games, of course.

I can see Hastur granting some spells after uttering the Unspeakable Oath. Of course, it could be just relaying the dark knowledge of those spells instead granting them as miracles*. And after uttering the Unspeakable Oath, you would be in great trouble, what with becoming a Chosen of Hastur and all that.


*I mean "mIrAcLeS", of course

[WalkingTarget]

I can see Hastur granting some spells after uttering the Unspeakable Oath. Of course, it could be just relaying the dark knowledge of those spells instead granting them as miracles*. And after uttering the Unspeakable Oath, you would be in great trouble, what with becoming a Chosen of Hastur and all that.


*I mean "mIrAcLeS", of course

hmmm...

Ok, a fair point. Thinking about that and a few others, I can see some of the RPG spell list being related to things like that, but they never made a point of keeping things in different categories (arcane/divine) because there's no functional difference within the setting.

[Xuc Xac]

D&D pretty much invented the divine/arcane split.