A system for Warhammer Fantasy..

[knightMARE]

The group I play in are trying to decide on a system to run a roleplaying game set in the Warhammer Fantasy world. Some of the ideas that we have had are

1. Burning Wheel
2. Warhammer Fantasy RPG (2nd Edition)
3. Something with World of Darkness


Has anyone run a Warhammer game in any of these systems, have any suggestions for alternate systems or any general advice related to the situation?

[NMBLNG]

That probably depends on what exactly the WHF world is like. If memory serves correctly, you could probably just take 4e, re-flavor/color most of the races, give out higher level items, and you'd be set.

So, what fell does the setting need to have?

[Arstense]

Has anyone run a Warhammer game in any of these systems, have any suggestions for alternate systems or any general advice related to the situation?

WFRP 2e does Warhammer Fantasy pretty much perfectly. It does, however, use a very lethal combat system. Characters really do have to dodge and parry (and/or be quite lucky) if they want to survive for long, as one or two good hits can kill them. Magic is, for the most part, flavourful and focused on utility over killing-power. There's some minor imbalance between the careers (classes), but nothing that really stops the game from being fun.

It's a good choice, particularly if you're wanting to run a Warhammer Fantasy setting anyway.

give out higher level items

No! Even the mighty Warhammer heroes have, perhaps, four magic items. Having just one is a sign of a character's heroism and bravery underhandedness and skulduggery.

Any magic item is a precious prize. Unless it's malevolent and trying to cause your death (hey, it happens).

[Ragitsu]

GURPS 4th Edition.

[Eldan]

Warhammer Fantasy is more intended for the low-level gritty stuff. Almost sword&sorcery-ish. You aren't playing Sigmar Heldenhammer, you're playing Hans Zimmermann, town guard, Jakob Signer, mercenary and Ferdinand Mahler, rat catcher.
Basically, three goblins with bows are a lethal threat. Sigmar help you if you ever run into anything powerful.

It also has the advantage of already having the flavour built in and the monsters you'll need pre-constructed.

[Ravens_cry]

Having played it at a Con, I found it to be more random then gritty. The whole complicated system of tracking wounds for different body parts felt unnecessary when a single lucky roll on the crit chart can kill you outright. Herb poultices that can bring you to full, and a practically literal system of extra lives did not add to the grit feel. The flavour ,oh yes indeed, the flavour was, but it could be ported to almost any system. I bet someone could make a Toon version of Warhammer Fantasy that would be more then satisfactory.
But yes, it is the system it was made for, so it would be the easiest to use. Even I got the hang of it fairly quickly and I play pretty much just d20.

[pasko77]

The group I play in are trying to decide on a system to run a roleplaying game set in the Warhammer Fantasy world. Some of the ideas that we have had are

1. Burning Wheel
2. Warhammer Fantasy RPG (2nd Edition)
3. Something with World of Darkness


Has anyone run a Warhammer game in any of these systems, have any suggestions for alternate systems or any general advice related to the situation?

2. Warhammer Fantasy RPG (2nd Edition)

This is exactly what you are looking for.
Be sure to have the chaos and skaven sourcebooks for an alternative campaign, they're really great.

[hewhosaysfish]

Be sure to have the chaos and skaven sourcebooks for an alternative campaign, they're really great.

Don't be absurd; Everyone knows there's no such thing as Skaven. They're just a silly peasant superstition.

[Eldan]

God I loved that part of the old core warhammer tabletop rulebook. Fifth edition, I think. Instead of describing the Skaven army, it had a two-page document by the Imperial academy of Altdorf listing all the reasons why there couldn't be any ratmen in the sewers.

[Alleran]

Don't be absurd; Everyone knows there's no such thing as Skaven. They're just a silly peasant superstition.

Yes, yes. Silly man-things, thinking that a race like the glorious Skaven exist.

*munches on a glowing green rock*

[Britter]

Buringin Wheel excells at the gritty, dangerous and often mundane sorts of activites that WFRP sets up. Generally, if it is a fantasy genre, you can make BW work for it, but the more that the fantasy is geared towards grit, danger, and the like, the better BW will fit.

I also recomend BW because I think it has some really spectacular mechanical ways to represent things in the game that, imo, few if any other systems have.

If you choose BW, grab the Monster Burner for the Roden (who you can mod to be the Skaven), and the Adventure Burner for a ton of great information on how to run BW. The AdBu is the single best GMs Guide style book I have ever read.

[Tyndmyr]

There's always mordhiem. While more of a squad combat game than an RPG, it's a great source of stuff for a campaign, and relatively few modifications would be needed to make it an RPG.

[Eldan]

Well, it does lack a bit of depth for a real RPG. There's not really all that many skills to choose from, so adding some more would help. But as a basis, Mordheim could be made into something... at least the setting would be interesting.

[pasko77]

I once did a RPG on top of mordheim rules. It worked fine, but now i'm playing risus and freeform, so I may be biased toward the lacks of skill lists :)

[monkey3]

I have played the Warhammer RPG. We unanimously loved the world, the fluff, chaos, warpstones, and all of it. The RPG left a LOT to be desired. The "professions" (classes) were extremely unbalanced (If you don't like D&D has tiers, forget Warhammer). The world is very grim and perilous. There is no resurrection, and the "doctors" ... let me tell you a story.

It was our 4th or so campaign in the system, so we all pretty much knew it cold. I wanted to be an archer because I knew how hardcore (and permanent) the critical injury table was, and having been a mage earlier, I wanted something new. In the first session, a crit to the leg made the guy a limper for life, no problem, I can still shoot. The fighter lost an ear, but who cares.

In the next session my archer lost one eye. He could be a crappy archer, or get a new profession. We needed a "healer" so I went the apprentice->surgeon route. While improving, I regularly cause more permanent injury to the party trying to heal them. The joke was, he is still alive, keep him away from the doctor.

Anyway, after a few session when we were all a bunch of cripples hobbling across the world, we dropped the campaign.

If you read this far, I will tell what I am doing with my love of Warhammer today: I am running the Red Hand of Doom module for a bunch of guys who have never heard of Warhammer. I have modified the module so that the horde is a horde of Chaos. Warpstone falls from the sky and mutates the monsters. All bets are off. I use ALL (chaos gods and all) the fluff, chaos, warp of Warhammer in a 3.5 D&D setting. I get the best of both worlds.

[The Big Dice]

I'm going to stick my neck out and say, track down a copy of the 1st edition WHFPG rules. Yes, they're a bit clunky and you might want to house rule a couple of things. But the game feels like a grim, dark and grubby Gothic horror game. It's got mud on it's boots and dirt under it's fingernails.

And there's also a lot of hidden scatological humour in the book. Especially if you're British.

[Tyndmyr]

I once did a RPG on top of mordheim rules. It worked fine, but now i'm playing risus and freeform, so I may be biased toward the lacks of skill lists :)

Yeah, it's definitely rules-light as it is, but that's not a showstopper. Rules can be added if desired, or ignored.

[pasko77]

I'm going to stick my neck out and say, track down a copy of the 1st edition WHFPG rules. Yes, they're a bit clunky and you might want to house rule a couple of things. But the game feels like a grim, dark and grubby Gothic horror game. It's got mud on it's boots and dirt under it's fingernails.

I would say that eveything in 2nd edition is better. All careers are more balanced, all rules streamlined, less dice used (only d10) make for clearer rules.

[Irbis]

Black Company d20 rulebook. It's basically D&D, but set in similarly dark world in similar period, with magic system completely reworked (and a few minor tweaks). Almost what you want, with far more polish than WH RPG had, more modern, and accessible to players. Just add fluff and you're all set.

[The Big Dice]

I would say that eveything in 2nd edition is better. All careers are more balanced, all rules streamlined, less dice used (only d10) make for clearer rules.

The rules aren't the only thing that matters. The world as presented in the 1st ed books is much, much better. It feels like everything is rotten under the surface. Everything has the subtle but rank stench of decay. There's a weak Emperor who lets his dukes do what they want. There's Slaanesh cults rampant in Bretonnia and the Beastmen make travel anywhere a risky venture at the best of times.

In 1st edtion, the forests of the Empire are scary, unknown places. Filled with dark shadows that conceal things born of nightmare.

2nd edition is filled with WAAAAARRRRGRGGGGGGHHHHH DA ORKS!

Chaos is just icky and nasty in 2nd edition, instead of insidious and offering to fulfill pleasures both subtle and gross.

Sure, the 2nd edition rules migh tbe better. But 1st edtion is way more evocative.

[knightMARE]

The rules aren't the only thing that matters. The world as presented in the 1st ed books is much, much better. It feels like everything is rotten under the surface. Everything has the subtle but rank stench of decay. There's a weak Emperor who lets his dukes do what they want. There's Slaanesh cults rampant in Bretonnia and the Beastmen make travel anywhere a risky venture at the best of times.

In 1st edtion, the forests of the Empire are scary, unknown places. Filled with dark shadows that conceal things born of nightmare.

2nd edition is filled with WAAAAARRRRGRGGGGGGHHHHH DA ORKS!

Chaos is just icky and nasty in 2nd edition, instead of insidious and offering to fulfill pleasures both subtle and gross.

Sure, the 2nd edition rules migh tbe better. But 1st edtion is way more evocative.

Fluff is transferable though, and what we are after is more the crunch side of things.

Thanks for all the posts so far. Has no one tried using World of Darkness for this? Does anyone have an idea on whether it would work anyway? I was thinking some combination of Hunter and Dark Ages: Sorcerer if we used oWoD..

[Matthew]

Basic Roleplaying System would also work well with War Hammer, I would think.

[Irbis]

Thanks for all the posts so far. Has no one tried using World of Darkness for this? Does anyone have an idea on whether it would work anyway? I was thinking some combination of Hunter and Dark Ages: Sorcerer if we used oWoD..

Doesn't really work. Too much tinkering to do. I suggested Black Company d20 precisely because there is very little than needs changing (classes almost custom-made for Warhammer, no Vancian spellcasting) in order to play.

[Another_Poet]

2. Warhammer Fantasy RPG (2nd Edition)

I love 2e. I have played in 2 games with it. The rules are simple, but do a fair job of making for interesting combat. The game is not quite as lethal as people say, certainly less lethal than 1st ed. The GM should realize however that in a d-percentile system with starting scores around 30ish, low-level characters will fail a majority of rolls. This means your GM should give you a free pass on easy things - no acrobatics check to jump a fence, no climb check to climb a knotted rope. As long as the GM is will to save the checks for when it really counts, it is a super fun system to play in.

And the rulebook has a lot of dark humor.