I wanna be an Undead Masta!

[Chained Birds]

Greeting fellow gamers,
I've been working on an awesome necromancer for some time now, but have hit a roadblock at the final creation. I can't decide what undead buddies I should have under my control. Here's the undead controlling power at my disposal.
- lvl 6 cleric
- rebuke undead = caster lvl 15 SHADOW!
- undead leadership = 14 (8 for living dudes) SLAYMATE!
- animate dead + desecrate = 36HD HYDRA!/DRAGON!
- still got a free feat at my disposal for either of the above or something else

The world is a savage species type with a variety of outsiders and magical beasts; so most monsters would be ok to use unless they are campaign specific (even some psionic ones).

How I got the above stats... I could explain it if it becomes a problem, but for now just use your imagination.

[Halae]

In general, a good bet for any necromancer is to find the biggest thing you can and raise its corpse. go grave robbing in giant town if you have to, but a set of undead can be better at dishing out damage than the entire party if done right. A few really stand out

Hydra - Very few creatures make good zombies, but the hydra is one of them. it can attack with all its heads as a standard action, so it doesn't suffer from the fact that zombies can't make full attacks. awakening it will also get you back its fast healing

Remorhaz - A skeletal Remorhaz is a devastating enemy in a fight, but is made even more terrible by the fact that it keeps its heat ability, which cn be devastating for the unprepared

Ettin - Did you know they keep their awesome two-weapon fighting when turned into undead? And being a giant type means they're proficient ith all martial weapons, which is good fun for you

Dragon - Another one of the rare good zombies, but for a different set of reasons. dragons have a ridiculous fly speed, and so make amazing transport vehicles for you - no need to stop and let your mount rest, no need to feed it, and it wn't get spooked in combat. That, and the Dragon zombie template from the draconomicon lets them keep a weakened version of their breath weapon and uncaps their HD without doubling it.

If you can't find the above, get a skeleton with the fire subtype (Like a fire giant) as this will make it immune to both heat and cold, and in general fire subtypes are pretty awesome

[Jair Barik]

I think hydra zombies are meant to be very nasty. Or was that skeleton zombies... One or the other is quite powerful, can't remember which. Have a feeling its hydra zombie as it circumvents the zombies slowness or something.

[Hazzardevil]

Your best bet really is be a drea necromancer that goes into pale master, pale master gives you free undead stuff and dread necro and palemaster stack for rebuke undead, this means that over 20 levels you only lose one CL which you can get back easily.

[Zaydos]

I think hydra zombies are meant to be very nasty. Or was that skeleton zombies... One or the other is quite powerful, can't remember which. Have a feeling its hydra zombie as it circumvents the zombies slowness or something.

Hydra zombies are sweet as they can partial charge and full-attack. They still have the very zombie problem of enemies can just run away from them but they are probably the nastiest zombies other than high HD dragon zombies.

[Chained Birds]

Your best bet really is be a drea necromancer that goes into pale master, pale master gives you free undead stuff and dread necro and palemaster stack for rebuke undead, this means that over 20 levels you only lose one CL which you can get back easily.

I would go dread, but the campain is 6th lvl and I have to compete with a wimic with an attack bonus of 24 and a yuan-ti that has baleful polymorphed every boss we've fought... he epic diplomacies the mid bosses...

So, don't have the time for the dread necromacer route

[MrRigger]

Yes, Hydras are amazing Zombies as they can attack with all their heads as a standard action. The Corpsecrafter Line is pretty much iconic for any Necromancer build.

MrRigger

[Chained Birds]

So what I'm getting is, "choose a hydra if you can."
Well that fills my animate undead section;
Now what would be a good choice for a rebuked ally for my character?

[Halae]

a shadow and it's spawn, since only magical things even have a chance of affecting it. in fact, pretty much any incorporeal undead, but shadows because of the spawn are wondrous

[Coidzor]

There's a number of items so that you can up your rebuking if you've a mind to do so. What'cha'ma'call'it.... Ephod of turning, sanctified armor/shield, I think flame-touched iron is for turning only but there's also a reliquary holy symbol that improves it as well.

There's 2 items that both give a -4 that stacks to -8 to effective HD & turn resistance of enemy undead, meaning that despite only being about to rebuke 8 HD+turn resistance undead due to that half one's level for rebuking thing, one could actually rebuke a 16 HD+turn resistance undead.

...Then again, I guess you must have some items already if you've an effective level for rebuking of 16 as a level 6 cleric. Without just blatantly departing from the rules as we know them. Of course, since you don't want to tell us what we actually have to improve upon, I can only guess one way or the other.

There's the planar touchstone, catalogues of enlightenment for the Deathbound domain....

Animate Dead = 2x normally, 3x with deathbound, with 4x as the normal cap. But Desecrate doubles this so it's 6x your CL in HD... so, 6*6 = 36 HD. So you actually go over your cap with that one casting, but due to the clause of controlling all the ones you create with one casting...

[Chained Birds]

Animate Dead = 2x normally, 3x with deathbound, with 4x as the normal cap. But Desecrate doubles this so it's 6x your CL in HD... so, 6*6 = 36 HD. So you actually go over your cap with that one casting, but due to the clause of controlling all the ones you create with one casting...

I forgot about the desecrate portion... then could I animate 2 HD17 Hydras within the same area? (however implacible it would be to find 2 dead hydras in the same area)
And the reason why I didn't include the items used is because I'm on a budget and took the best items I could find that wouldn't make me go over my maximum magical item limit...
If you have any non-magical items that boost my rebuke I'd love to here them.

And I'm unfamiliar with "planar touchstone." But I don't think it would be allowed by my DM...

[SilverClawShift]

In your situation I would make sure to ALWAYS have PLENTY of Onyx around, and just keep your eyes peeled. Start looking at every creature you encounter as a possible-corpse that you might be able to use. Don't be afraid to dismiss an existing creature you have and feed its rotting flesh to your other minions if something more useful comes along.

Also. A clumsy zombie flying mount is better than no flying mount. If it's a size category larger than you and has wings, start thinking of legitimate reasons to off that sucker.
Once it's dead. Well. Waste not...

[Draculmaulkee]

If you can find a slaymate (LM) to rebuke, you can get reduced metamagic costs on your necromancy spells.
Wights and shadows are also good choices, as they create and control their spawn. A wight can be "home grown" by giving a lvl 1 commoner a holy/unholy arrow.

[Halae]

In your situation I would make sure to ALWAYS have PLENTY of Onyx around, and just keep your eyes peeled. Start looking at every creature you encounter as a possible-corpse that you might be able to use. Don't be afraid to dismiss an existing creature you have and feed its rotting flesh to your other minions if something more useful comes along.

Also. A clumsy zombie flying mount is better than no flying mount. If it's a size category larger than you and has wings, start thinking of legitimate reasons to off that sucker.
Once it's dead. Well. Waste not...

SCS! I just finished reading your campaign archives - the necromantic warlock was wat originally inspired me to start working out ways to effectively play a necromancer!

As far as it goes, like she said a Dragon Zombie is absolutely amazing as a flying mount. Absolutely anything with a corpse can be animated, and there's a lot of creatures that leave corpses (Balors and incorporeals are an exception, of course, but what are you gonna do?).

And you're an adventurer - if you don't come across at least three corpses per session, or at least one very powerful one, you're doing it wrong

[Chained Birds]

I don't worry about finding unique corpses along the way. I just hope they would be strong enough to be used efficiently. But me and my PC friend would have a cool system.
He's a diplomacy maximizer with some very decent (if not broken) abilities; and I'd be an undead creating mastermind. He gets them if they're alive, I get them if they're dead.

But I think I'll go with a shadow for my rebuked ally.

Lastly, a cohort (1 lvl4/HD4 undead)... It is probally going to be fairly useless, but I'd still like to know what everyone else thinks. Is there a useful undead at this level?

[Coidzor]

^: Well, a necropolitan X 3 or X 4 would be good for certain classes that don't mind losing their CON quite so much.

I forgot about the desecrate portion... then could I animate 2 HD17 Hydras within the same area? (however implacible it would be to find 2 dead hydras in the same area)

They gotta shag sometimes to make babby hydras. All ya need is some time and someone with enough knowledge nature to figure out hydra mating season.

And the reason why I didn't include the items used is because I'm on a budget and took the best items I could find that wouldn't make me go over my maximum magical item limit...

Then it's all the more important to know your limits if you have a hard cap on the number of magical items you can have.

If you have any non-magical items that boost my rebuke I'd love to here them.

Me too. x.x

And I'm unfamiliar with "planar touchstone." But I don't think it would be allowed by my DM...

Well, as far as I can tell it's a feat from the Planar Handbook and lets one bind with a particular magical site in order to get a benefit from it. The Catalogues of Enlightenment site grants a cleric domain. Like Kobold for trapfinding or Deathbound for better undead production.

[Chained Birds]

Then it's all the more important to know your limits if you have a hard cap on the number of magical items you can have.

If you need to know, it is around 10,000gp for magic items. Which sounds great but kinda lame as many rebuke items cost more than 7000gp a piece.

I used the mace of the dark children (+5) [8012gp] and a true unholy symbol (+2) [500gp]. The rest came from the Undead domain (+2) and 5 ranks in knowledge religion (+2). Giving me a caster lvl 17 for rebuking. I used the MIC for the mace of the dark children.

Deathbound and desecrate would give me 36HD of undead. So I guess I could have something potentially broken for a 6th-15th lvl campaign... Hmmm

[Draculmaulkee]

From the srd

If you have 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (religion), you get a +2 bonus on turning checks against undead

Emphasis mine. The synergy bonus unfortunately doesn't increase your effective rebuking level, just your turning check.

[Chained Birds]

From the srd

Emphasis mine. The synergy bonus unfortunately doesn't increase your effective rebuking level, just your turning check.

Ah... well at least I can still gain a shadow even without those 2 extra points...

[Waker]

Lastly, a cohort (1 lvl4/HD4 undead)... It is probally going to be fairly useless, but I'd still like to know what everyone else thinks. Is there a useful undead at this level?

The aforementioned Slaymate from Libris Mortis, reduces the cost of metamagic feats when you are near it.

[Chained Birds]

The aforementioned Slaymate from Libris Mortis, reduces the cost of metamagic feats when you are near it.

Good call.
...
Ok! So here is my undead list:

[01] 12HD 12 Headed Hydra - animate + desecrate
[01] 19HD Young Adult (prefering) Silver Dragon - animate + desecrate
- 5HD remainder

[02] 3HD Shadows - Rebuked
- 1HD remainder

[01] 4HD Slaymate - Cohort

[06] 1lvl Skeletons - Follower
[04] 1lvl Zombies - Follower
[01] 2lvl Skeleton Leader - Follower

[CycloneJoker]

Good call.
...
Ok! So here is my undead list:

[01] 12HD 12 Headed Hydra - animate + desecrate
[01] 19HD Young Adult (prefering) Silver Dragon - animate + desecrate
- 5HD remainder

[02] 3HD Shadows - Rebuked
- 1HD remainder

[01] 4HD Slaymate - Cohort

[06] 1lvl Skeletons - Follower
[04] 1lvl Zombies - Follower
[01] 2lvl Skeleton Leader - Follower

Looks fairly good. I can't find any issues. BTW,

I wanna be the very best
that noone ever was
to make them is my real quest
to rebuke them is my call
Undead mons!
Okay, sorry, couldn't resist when I saw the title

[Drynwyn]

A suggestion: there is a 10,000 gp magic item in the Magic Item Compendium that doubles the amount of undead you can control. You should get one.

[Chained Birds]

Maybe I should evolve one of my shadows and that one skeleton follower?

Thanks to everyone for the advice.