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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Feb 2008
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    Default Fantasy Economics Blog Post

    A recent subscriber to my YouTube channel has shared with me a post they put up on their blog. The original is in French as they live in France. But he was nice enough to do a translation for me which I will include below. The original can be found here:

    http://elromanozo.canalblog.com/arch.../19837215.html

    I thought it was rather well written and brought up some good points. I am reposting it with permission.

    *Echo-Gnomy, or "Economy in Medieval-Fantasy RPGs" :*

    Since we're being hit by a recession, it seems only appropriate for us
    to talk about a terrible disease that plagues most D&D style campaigns
    (whatever your edition of the game, whatever your game for that
    matter)... It affects all medieval fantasy worlds, and even others that
    are far stranger ! It's everywhere, and I really don't know why it
    hasn't been addressed sooner. Let's change that.

    No fantasy game, to the best of my knowledge, offers a plausible
    economy. I'm not even talking about something feasible, viable or even
    somewhat realistic... Just something vaguely plausible. The systems we
    are facing now in RPGs are... laughable, at best. It's not an economy
    crisis, but it is a crisis of economy ! I'm not talking about the
    currency, really... I couldn't care less if a gold piece is 10 or 20
    silver : Whatever the monetary system, it's realistic enough. No, I'm
    talking about real economy. It deals with value, not just money.

    Am I qualified ? Well, I'm not an economist, if that's what you're
    asking. However, I've bene roleplaying as far as I can remember, I know
    my fantasy worlds through and through, I have a master's degree in
    History (from the Sorbonne... If you got it, flaunt it !), and I know
    quite a bit about the History of economy in medieval times. More
    importantly, I know what I like when I play. It doesn't take anything
    more to tackle the issue, for it is a very obvious one even a layman can
    observe.

    Just think about it for a minute. You'll see how enormously absurd it is...

    The average village our favorite heroes (the PCs) will visit has a
    micro-economy entirely based on the presence of one or more adventuring
    groups. Often times, the village is barely a hamlet, or even a small
    gathering of farms vaguely connected by a marketplace. However, it has a
    tavern, a forge (specialized in arms and armor), a bazaar where you can
    find every odd exploration tool you could ever want (including thieves
    tools), and someone who knows magic items and maybe can sell some minor
    ones.

    The tavern always serves dwarven ale and elvish wine. Even in the very
    ******* of the world, near a sinister dungeon, a cursed forest, and
    twelve assorted crypts and tombs in a faraway land, a village HAS to
    have all those specialty stores... There's also a good chance that it
    has a temple dispensing free healing, and an endless supply of rich yet
    shady strangers who are eager to give out assignments to any half-wit
    with a sword or any fireball-happy mage (claim a relic, protect a
    caravan, eliminate some orcish threat...).

    In the nearest town, it's possible to find great quantities of magic
    items without any problem whatsoever, as long as you can pay for it...
    OK, maybe not the most powerful or legendary items. But still, there
    seems to be an endless supply of +1 Items, cure-light-wounds potions,
    wands charged up with harmful spells, Remove Curse scrolls...

    This is NOT an exaggeration. It's true about the MMORPGs and other video
    games, it's true about many scenarios and campaigns, whether home-made
    or not, for D&D... It's true for any number of Campaign settings such as
    the Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk... And it's true, /a thousand times
    over/, about the RPGA campaigns played for decades now for the D&D games.

    In our own real world, in medieval times, textile and food were the two
    main markets that made the world turn, and gave jobs to most people. In
    our real world, if anyone could make and sell ANY sort if item capable
    of curing wounds like that (that is to say, one item that can cure ANY
    sort of injury), even if it could only be used once, even if it were
    extremely expensive, this same item would replace the gold standard (or
    whatever standard) in NO TIME. Magic, not precious metal or cloth or
    food, would be the heart of the market... Much like information and IT,
    high added value goods and services, are nowadays.

    Incidentally, that's the sort of economy that's spontaneously created by
    players in many online games (such as Dofus or others). Rather than
    hitting monsters in dungeons, players "farm" resources from dungeons,
    buy, sell, craft objects when possible, speculating on their value to
    make more money to buy better stuff... More than just speculation, this
    sort of thing leads to another issue : currency devaluation.

    In Dofus, gold is a resource one can mine, and it's also, in theory, the
    metal used for making gold pieces, obviously (the Kama, the in-game
    currency). However, it's become less cost-effective than mining other
    metals or gathering other resources in order to create magical items
    (you're able to do that through specialized skills, in-game) and selling
    those items. Those items are destined to be sold, and are seldom used
    for anything else, since they're not that powerful : they're a new
    standard, serving as a new currency.

    Something similar should occur, over time, in pen and paper fantasy
    worlds... But doesn't.

    Questions : How much gold, exactly, is buried in the dungeons visited by
    adventurers ? How much has been unearthed, and then injected into the
    economy ? What's the impact of the adventurers on the quantity of gold
    pieces in circulation ?

    In D&D, a single dragon's treasure is about 4000 gold pieces, minimum (a
    conservative estimation, for a dragon that's not too old and with a GM
    that's very reasonable). That amount of money alone would completely
    destroy the economy of the average village, by massive cash flow. Taking
    into account the amount of ruins and tombs replete with monsters and
    treasure regularly "cleaned out" by adventurers around Myth Drannor,
    gold should be near worthless.

    Inexplicably, however, a backpack still costs only 2gps, and the average
    worker's wage continues to be a few copper pieces... And so on.

    Even without a dragon, the impact or a single experienced adventurer on
    the economy of a village is crucial. Consider this : A peasant may earn
    10gp a year with his crops, tops. A non magical sword, which we will
    consider as the basic adventuring tool, costs 50gps. The lowest price
    for ANY magical item, even minor ones, is around a hundred gold pieces.
    Every adventurer returning from a dungeon sells, buys or pays for the
    repairs of many a piece of equipment, several times a week...

    See what I mean ?

    Adventurers arrive in town, clean out (or so they say) the monstrous
    threats on the communities, spend whole carts of gold pieces... And yet
    the villages remain eternally poor, even though they're able to buy or
    make expensive equipment... the dungeons are eternally infested with
    monsters and filled with treasure, even though they're regularly visited
    by adventurers... And prices remain fixed.

    10gp a short sword, 2gp a dagger, 5sp for rations. Unchanging.

    The question one is bound to ask now is... *Why such a system* ?

    Well... Because.

    Economy is like sausages... You're happy to have money, but you don't
    want to know the details. Honestly, one doesn't play a barbarian or a
    mage to examine the finer points of finance. Is the GM expected to come
    up with realistic price fluctuations and estimations on the buying power
    or the average commoner in proportion of what loot the PCs gather ? I
    should think not. Simply put, it's difficult and it's boring.

    No one wants to simulate a real economy, no one wants to change the
    gaming system, and no one would buy a game in which a whole chapter
    details supply and demand... The rare games that tried it made it an
    optional rule that never convinced anyone. We must therefore find ways
    to minimize the absurdity or the system and justify this status quo of
    economy...

    One has to understand that prices are fixed for a very good reason in
    RPGS... At least for common goods. How would the beginner adventurer
    start out otherwise ? Prices are calculated to be accessible to the
    beginning adventurer, and to be proportional with goods and services
    such as a night at the inn, rations, the minimum wage of a worker for a
    day, etc. As for the price of extraordinary objects, such as magical
    ones, they are... extravagant, of course. No one could possibly pay that
    much in gold... But it's in proportion with the rest. It's artificial,
    but it follows.

    Now, we still have to justify the base, the reference prices... The
    usual excuse is "historical realism". Yes, it is ludicrous, especially
    in a game with dragons... But that's what people have been saying.

    In many countries in the European middle ages, the nobility and military
    are the only social classes able to bear arms, by law. It was a control
    measure to avoid the proliferation of violence, as well as to avoid
    having well-armed peasants in case of an uprising. In many medieval
    societies, this control was implemented through custom, through royal
    edict or law, or through taxes and high prices on metal weapons.

    Furthermore, in a medieval society (without any means of mass
    production), a sword or an armor is a luxury. Unlike a mantelpiece or an
    iron poker, or even a simple mace, a sword has to be finer and
    sturdier... It has to be made with better care than a plowshare. In the
    same fashion, a metallic armor is often made to fit, especially, on a
    single order basis, either for the local lord or for his soldiers.

    A slight flaw in an armor or a sword means that the owner has fewer
    chances of survival... It follows that such an item should be more
    expensive. And even in a "normal" medieval world, arms and armor are the
    most technologically advanced items of their time : the smithing
    techniques necessary to obtain sturdier or lighter alloys are often
    arduous, experimental at first... And they're well guarded trade secrets !

    Most "expensive" metal objects often require special materials. I'm not
    even talking about gold or precious metals... In the middle ages, simple
    iron is expensive, hard to get (it has to be mined and refined from the
    ore). It's a precious commodity, and some regions have to make do with
    wood for all the common metal objects we take for granted (cutlery,
    plates, nails, handles, hinges... everything !) because iron is such a
    luxury. Since it's so precious, a peasant could find a thousand better
    uses for even a small quantity of high quality metal than a paladin's
    sword... Uses that are both easier to forge and more pressing for the
    general population, such as plowshares, horseshoes or gears for a mill !

    In a fantasy world, it's all too logical that magical items, even more
    useful and made from even rarer materials by even more specialized
    craftsmen, should be proportionately more expensive.

    Let's also correct one common misconception : Even if minor magical
    items are common for adventurers, it doesn't mean that they are
    /produced/ in great quantities, or on a regular basis. Sure, there are
    more than enough for every adventurer... But adventurers are a
    /minority/ of a gaming world (one doesn't dare use the word "elite"
    after looking at some munchkin players out there).

    We must place the average PC in its correct demographical context. Our
    heroes are... Heroes ! They're not exactly a dime a dozen. We play these
    games to act out remarkable people, their characteristics are
    remarkable, so it follows that they are but a few of them in their land.
    Sure, there are hundreds, thousands of adventurers everywhere in the
    RPGA, or in online games, much more than "normal" people... It's
    abusive, but it's true...

    However, this doesn't have to be the case for YOUR campaign world, for
    YOUR home game !

    I other words, this doesn't have to be your problem.

    Let's also place the items in context... Adventurers use large
    quantities of magic items, especially violence oriented ones, such as
    protective gear or magical weaponry. They have to, it's their job.
    Otherwise, they'd get killed. Nothing wrong with using magic like that...

    However, it's still a niche market. Economically speaking, the price of
    a magical sword bears little direct influence on the market as a whole :
    A magical sword is of no use whatsoever to a hefty majority in the
    campaign world... It's a highly specialized tool for hurting monsters.
    If that's not your job, then what good is it to you ? Outside of the
    "adventuring market", most items should be impossible to sell.

    So what do we do with them ?

    Well... First of all, in my opinion, the GM shouldn't distribute them
    like candy. If they're impossible to sell, there are no magic items
    catalog, players may NOT order the crafting of magical items in just any
    blacksmith's shop... Even if it could be done, it would take a
    tremendous amount of time just to gather the materials. I think it adds
    to the game if even a +1 sword is something you find, or something
    rather legendary (locally) in its own right, rather than "just a +1
    sword the Smith made for adventurer X". Finding the ideal magical weapon
    could be a quest in and of itself. Magical weapons are, in stories, rare
    and wondrous... The stuff of legend. This way of seeing things is one of
    the only ways that keep the fragile game economics somewhat balanced.

    In my opinion, it is imperative, in order not to fall into a guilty
    routine, to find alternative rewards for player characters... Especially
    since giving fewer rewards could be problematic if you've already
    started the candy distribution in your campaign and don't know how to
    stop it ! Don't worry, there are many ways to "pay" adventurers for
    those who don't want to give out money or magic.

    What's that ? Do I hear someone snickering and murmuring about sexual
    favors ? Dirty birdies !

    Yes, sex is a possibility... But what about gratitude ? A favor owed by
    a high profile NPC ? Or maybe a knighthood, even if it doesn't come with
    lands (a fief is the proper term, but I didn't want to lose anyone
    there)... It could even be simpler : A discount in certain stores, or
    the simple possibility of entering a certain clubhouse, being friendly
    with the local guardsmen, having the local innkeeper feeding you
    information on a regular basis because you saved his life...

    Payment could be the mere possibility of acquiring magical items
    (potions or scrolls) from someone who ordinarily makes those for his
    personal use only... The PCs then would have to pay for those anyway.

    Beyond that, there's always payment in nature : cattle, horses,
    chickens, meals, raw materials, common items... Payments that can't be
    refused, mostly made by merchants or simple townsfolk who do not have
    anything else with which to pay... A thatcher could offer barrels of
    tar, an innkeeper could offer a rare wine or barrels of ale, a tailor
    could offer tailor-made clothes or even dyes, a merchant could offer a
    small box of spices (very expensive and rare in the European middle
    ages), or could offer a quantity of useful objects such as rope,
    canteens, bedrolls etc. to equip the characters for years... Let's face
    it, there's probably not enough gold in the whole village to fill the
    purse of the PCs even if the villagers were willing.

    Payment could also be something easily regulated by the GM, such as
    something one cannot carry in a pocket or a backpack... Cows, for
    example... Or a house built by everyone in the village so that the PCs
    "will always have a home here". A peasant could offer his daughter's
    hand in marriage (whether she wants to or not)... All those things are
    impossible to sell and very difficult to refuse without hurting people's
    feelings.

    One should favor payments that are plausible and that have a strong
    emotional impact ("damn, those people are really giving us all they
    have..."), while retaining a weak economical impact. Offer something
    which has a sentimental value... Offer a heirloom. Offer knowledge : a
    skill the PCs could learn, a story for the bard, local legends for the
    mage...

    And, every once in a while, offer money, and/or a magical item.

    If a magical item is indeed present in the village, then the PCs may
    find out about it and buy it, even if they have to save money to do
    so... But what about re-selling magical items ? As we've said earlier,
    peasants don't care about magical swords, and have better things to
    spend their money on... Merchants might be interested, but do they carry
    thousands of gold pieces around for just that purpose in a town where an
    ale costs less than a copper piece ? Not likely.

    It may be possible to trade a magical item for the equivalent in goods,
    which is more logical than money... I mean, who, apart from nobility or
    the adventurers themselves (who often have platinum pouring out of their
    pockets), has the dough for that sort of thing ? A single magical sword
    could buy an entire village, including its inhabitants if slavery isn't
    abolished !

    It follows that the exact price of a magical item should be very
    difficult to estimate. It's so very astronomical for most people, it's
    more money they could ever see in their whole life, more than they could
    count ! Most shopkeepers won't have any idea of its real value. To them,
    simply put, it's /priceless/.

    Therefore... Why would a commoner /sell/ a magical item if he happens to
    find one ?

    The very rarity of the thing would probably make him keep it. He
    probably wouldn't use it, but he'd save it as some sort of heirloom, a
    family legacy that goes with a story... Not just the cliché magical
    sword on the mantelpiece, but any magical item. Anyway, adventurers
    being a minority and magic items being a rarity, they wouldn't have any
    opportunity to sell it, most of the time.

    Even then, there's a risk of magical "inflation" around the PCs as they
    go up in level. The GM could always strip the PCs of their gear again
    and again, after a certain level, they will have to have the "tools of
    the trade"... Were it only because the monsters need magical gear to
    pose a challenge.

    In that context, another way of limiting the "magical proliferation" is
    for the GM to state that there are *no magical shops*. Ever. Period. Not
    even for potions and scrolls. Those items have to be found or crafted,
    or traded with rare people versed in such arcane arts, and that have
    come to trust the PCs. Even then, the PCs will probably have to gather
    the special ingredients.

    Even the wizard's spells cannot be bought or sold, but must be
    personally researched, found in old tomes, or learned from a
    sufficiently trustworthy colleague in exchange for another spell, or
    something else. There are no magical schools, no guilds to speak of, and
    very few magical societies or orders... Only masters and apprentices.
    Magic is too rare for anything else to be viable. This allows a GM to
    limit the impact of magic on the economy, and on society in general.

    I'm not saying this is the only way, or the best way, or that you HAVE
    to do it... But I am saying that it works. It works in Warhammer, it
    works in some D&D worlds. It's one way of looking at things... Another
    point of view is Forgotten Realms, with its common magic, or Eberron...

    In the Eberron campaign setting (a world I really like, just like
    Faerun, I wanted to make that clear : I'm not adamantly defending the
    "rare magic" point of view), magic is omnipresent, and society as a
    whole has been altered by it. People travel in flying ships or in
    hover-trains propelled by magical lightning over arcane railroads, build
    skyscraping towers held in place by metal beams subject to levitation
    spells... There's even a race of magical robots, the Warforged. Economy
    is the least of a GM's worries, in that world...

    An abundance of magic items isn't a threat on the economy : It adapts,
    it has to... But it does change society. It is indeed a threat to the
    medieval "feel" of a game. Even if only the very rich can afford it,
    cure spells and instant communication through magical means change the
    whole deal. Just look at what antibiotics and cell phones did to our world.

    What if you can buy resurrection, even for thousands of gold pieces ? It
    means that the very rich no longer die, and can only get richer. What if
    teleportation is available to rich merchants ? No more caravans, ever,
    or only for the "little people". Suddenly, being a mage or a cleric
    becomes THE most attractive career for youngsters everywhere, pushed by
    their parents, eager to enjoy the benefits of social mobility. In a few
    generations, the number of mages increase exponentially, and magic
    become more available... more common...

    Think about it : in Pathfinder or D&D 4, a simple apprentice is able to
    cast a Cantrip at will. /At will/. Anything that you can do at will and
    that no one else can do is worth a lot of money... Even if it's just
    lighting a fire with a magical sparkle, amusing kids with minor
    illusions, keeping the beer cold with a freezing ray, or unclogging the
    latrine with a little acidic burst...It's worth some money. At least
    until the market is saturated... Unless the gift of magic itself is a
    rare thing.

    But enough with that... I should return to the subject at hand : Economy.

    Another solution to explore for the GM is to limit the quantity and flow
    of cash, and play with price fluctuations. For expensive objects,
    realism suggests that their price fluctuate, because not everyone will
    be ready to pay the same amount, and not all the time, for every object.
    Realism also suggests (as we have seen) that payment cannot be made in gold.

    Gold uses space, gold weighs quite a lot, and there just isn't that much
    gold in circulation in any city.

    Remember, only the King can have coins made, that's why his effigy is on
    them. In History, organisms that emitted their own money in competition
    with the state, such as the knights templar, had a bloody end... be sure
    to check what's the most practical and common means of payment for your
    PCS, in your campaign world. It should be the copper piece. If it's
    gold, the situation is serious but not desperate... if it's a short
    sword or a +1 AC ring, you're in deep ****.

    Copper is the most abundant metal for coinage, followed by silver, then
    gold. Even in basic D&D, gold isn't used for many transactions : To pay
    for a dagger (2gp), most people would carry 20sp. Only adventurers, rich
    merchants, guild-masters, high clerics and nobles use gold regularly.
    For large payments, worth thousands of gold pieces, gold just weighs too
    much and there's not enough of it. So rich people use platinum,
    objets-d'art, services, favors, and, of course, gems... However, all
    those things have to be evaluated first by an expert, and that means
    their price may vary !

    If you want realism, a favor, an objet d'art or a gem doesn't have a
    fixed value. The rules even say so : Prices listed are here as an
    indication, and may vary ! No gem is like the next one, and even if one
    admits the (highly unrealistic) fact that, to minimize the GM's
    headache, in the campaign world, all shopkeepers sell at roughly the
    same prices wherever they're from, one has to concede that prices are
    but an approximation.

    Furthermore, gems and objets-d'art are in and of themselves very
    expensive... SO these are objects for which most people will pay... by
    trading other objects !

    Example :

    Grabgorethe Mage finds a diamond. His thief companion makes a skill
    check and says it's worth 500gp. They think it's worth /about/ that. Who
    knows, really ? Even in a large town, letting the word out to gather the
    rare buyers who are ready to pay for such a diamond, who /need/ such a
    stone (to make a jewel, for a magic spell, to collect, etc.) and who
    have enough /gold/ at hand and on their person in spite of thieves, this
    takes time. It takes even more time (and money) to organize an auction.
    The adventurers could contact a jeweler, and exchange that diamond for
    another gem or jewel hat would be more easily sold, but that would also
    take time (and the necessary contacts), and the jeweler would have to
    earn a profit from the transaction, therefore trading the diamond for
    other gems or lesser total value... Our heroes need equipment ASAP to go
    back to the dungeon, so they decide against it. They'd like to trade the
    diamond for equipment... They contact merchants rich enough to be
    interested in such a transaction, but few of them have enough food,
    horses or common items at the ready and in the proper quantities for
    500gp worth of trade. 500gp is ten greatswords. It's also one masterwork
    greatsword, but one would have to have it forged especially, and that
    requires months... And of course, the blacksmith doesn't agree with the
    thief's estimate, and doesn't really need a diamond anyway. Our heroes
    are starting to lose patience... They need food, rope, horses, leather
    goods, and no one in town seems interested in a diamond... Everyone
    wants silver or gold ! The adventurers have to consider the fact that
    they might very well starve owning their diamond, if they can't part
    with it fast ! They end up finding a caravan owner who accepts the
    transaction... For a fraction of the diamond's price, such as 200gps in
    horses and materials. Why ? Because the caravan owner knows he has the
    adventurers by the balls, that's why. They won't find a better deal
    elsewhere, unless they're willing to wait for opportunities.

    And of course, prices fluctuate from one country to the next, one
    kingdom to the next. It's not necessary to do it, but it adds a touch of
    realism to a scenario. If the PCs find themselves in an exotic land, why
    are the same products available at the same price ? Spices, for example,
    while very expensive in their homeland, are be considerably cheaper in
    southern tropical lands where spices actually come from. After all, what
    good are caravans if prices are the same everywhere ? You might just as
    well call them simple movers... In a world devoid of any means of mass
    production, even more than our own, no two cities should have exactly
    the same prices.

    A clever GM could introduce small variations in the prices from one city
    to the next, one merchant to the next... How so ? It's very simple.
    Lower or raise them randomly. Your players don't have to understand
    supply or demand, they don't have to know why prices are high or low...
    maybe a shipment of such and such material has been delayed, maybe
    another one has arrived early, whatever... The PCs aren't merchants.

    You could even be a little more logical : Raise all prices at the inn if
    there's a festival in town (tourists are here, there's not enough rooms
    for everyone...), lower the shopkeeper's prices if this region is poor
    (no one can afford to pay much), raise all prices if the whole realm is
    prosperous and if its money serves as a standard for other countries...
    And don't forget to give discounts to PCs with a great reputation for
    heroic deeds.

    It shouldn't be too difficult : inflation is common enough nowadays. Use
    that...

    Even without crisis, you could lower the prices of local products, raise
    the price on imported goods, raise the prices if the shop is very
    reputable... In many games including D&D, there exist masterwork items,
    usually ten times as expensive as the regular ones. Why wouldn't there
    be "masterwork" groceries ? Masterwork meals ? Exotic fruits,
    confections and pastries, fine wines, exquisite cheeses and dishes...
    They are delicious, they're rare, they require skill, therefore they're
    more expensive.

    Those items, although destined to be consumed only once, could even
    serve as payment or reward for the PCs... And, of course, they could be
    the very reason for an uncommon mission : Who's going to deliver the
    fine wines and chocolates for the Baron's daughter's wedding, protect
    the caravan and watch over the snotty foreign chef, in that faraway
    baronny riddled with an Orc problem ?

    But let's go back to our average village...

    Remember that one ? the one with the tavern, the armory, and everything ?

    The village in peril is a cliché of RPGs... Who hasn't exterminated rats
    in the cook's cellar, or defended the farm against goblins and wolves,
    eradicated orcs in the forest, expelled the gnolls from their camp and
    foiled the machinations of a necromancer or demonic cult that just
    happened to be active in a nearby tumulus ? It seems like those
    villagers are in need of constant saving !

    Why, oh why do they live here ? Seriously who would build a village near
    such a forest, such a tumulus, /et caetera/, in the first place ?

    Maybe the village was there first, of maybe the "evil" only recently
    awakened, or maybe they didn't know... But that's no excuse not to
    leave. Maybe it's the same everywhere in the campaign world... Or maybe
    the GM has to do better than that !

    The GM should come up with a reason other than "it's home" for the
    people to stay... Because in reality, often times, it isn't enough.
    there has to be something to compensate for the loss of life, limb,
    crops and money to the local monsters. Maybe it's religion, maybe it's a
    special place, maybe the villagers want to stay here because it's the
    only place where they can follow their own laws and customs, maybe it's
    because the land is exceptionally fertile... Maybe the local duke or
    baron allows the people not to pay taxes for a few years if they settle
    in "fallow" lands, as a program to expand and civilize the countryside
    and get rid of the monsters, as well as developing the population and
    its economy.

    But there's more...

    This isn't just a bunch of farmers, this is a village for adventurers.
    Okay, so there's a tavern... there would be one anyway. But it wouldn't
    be as well supplied. There wouldn't be mission-givers, or shops
    everywhere ready to sell adventuring gear... Who would need all this
    apart from adventurers ?

    Well, that could be a reason. Adventurers are rich... Very rich.
    Proverbially so, perhaps. Even if they're a rare breed, a village
    "lucky" enough to have a dungeon nearby attracts them like flies. It
    should be worth something to adapt to this very eldritch clientele...

    We're now entering the very weird domain of *Dungenomics*, a world never
    better presented than by Jared Hindman in his D&D column.

    Even if the village is far away from any civilization, it's worth it for
    them to carry specialized items, serve elvish wine and dwarven ale...
    The heroes are rich, and there's no competition for miles. Incidentally,
    a common mission could be protecting the heroic caravans who supply the
    shops...

    It's just like when a town has a remarkable feature or monument : it's
    worth it to make accommodations for tourists. Or adventurers. It's the
    same thing, really : they're loud, they spend too much, they brawl, they
    break the furniture... But it's worth it, because they carry a thousand
    times the minimum wage in adventuring gear.

    You know the guy in the cloak who gives out missions at the inn ? He
    pays his room by the month, just waiting for adventurers. The sage near
    the fountain who identifies magic items ? The rags are just for show :
    he has a good home and pays his taxes. The blacksmith imports exotic
    metals, but he can afford it : Each sword is worth a hundred times what
    he makes with four horseshoes. Every now and then, an adventurer orders
    something special, and he earns in one time five years worth of salary.
    It's an opportunity to be a better blacksmith, to cultivate a
    reputation... He also has apprentices, he pays them, and he teaches them
    a craft. The priest doesn't just marry and bury people : he's had a
    crash course in potion brewing, and earned in one week enough money to
    repair the church's roof... It's 50gp a minor potion, made with local
    ingredients the adventurers are only too happy to collect for him (at
    their peril) in exchange for a small discount... Maybe he's even
    recruited a novice as well.

    PCs mean business... But it has a downside.

    Such a village /needs/ adventurers to inject cash regularly, in the long
    run... And if the adventurers are so efficient, why would they need to
    come back ? It follows that the village needs monsters, in a very
    paradoxal yet symbiotic relationship...

    A cunning mayor would do well to preserve a few kobolds or giant bugs to
    "seed" the surrounding area every year or so, or to be very careful to
    hide some of the "nests" to the adventurers who come to "help the town".
    It's a delicate balance, and one that must remain a secret at all
    cost... Unless...

    Well, let's take an example from the video game Baldur's Gate...

    Local farmers are assailed by Ankhegs, subterranean monsters... They ask
    adventurers to get rid of them, but to leave some of them alive... they
    just invent some pretext, such as "Ankheg dung fertilizes the ground",
    or something like that (as if regular worms weren't enough), and that's
    all there is to it. The blacksmith does business crafting Ankheg hide
    armor, the innkeeper hosts the adventurers, the shopkeepers are happy,
    and the whole village lives partly on the "golden Ankheg"... But you
    can't give the whole truth to the adventurers, otherwise they'd kill all
    of the critters.

    I went even further, once, and conceived for my own campaign setting an
    whole medieval city (spoof of another very well known fantasy city,
    whose name I will not utter here...) surrounded with tombs and tumuli,
    dungeons and ruins, a cursed forest, unexplored lands nearby, and a
    sewer system full of monsters... The whole city had built, through
    careful planning, its prosperity over the "adventuring business".

    There was a special "adventuring quarter" with shops and craftsmen,
    temples, magic shops (eh, there's no need to limit yourself in such a
    setting ! the people are motivated to produce magic /en masse/...) and
    taverns designed for their comfort. There were even special boards and a
    special page for "adventuring jobs" offers and demands... The city hall
    had maps in circulation that channeled a majority of adventurers towards
    some of the known dungeons, giving other dungeons time to replenish
    themselves... the authorities also made money with VAT on loot, and
    controlled somewhat the adventurers traffic through a law that made them
    register and fill out a form for every expedition, "in case they don't
    come back, to give word to the family, organize a rescue party...". I
    would have added an insurance policy, but it would have been too complex
    for everyone. The city being prosperous, more adventurers flocked to it
    in a virtuous circle... the high mortality rate in the dungeons kept the
    adventurers manageable, and the dungeons filled with enough magical gear
    and loot, while still dissuading most people to become long-term
    adventurers.

    And all this thanks to well devised urban planning !

    In the end, adventurers might become aware that villages and towns cater
    to them... This is weird in and of itself, but it's only logical. It
    also raises more worrying concerns, such as the existence of
    *Stabbing-towns*, as described by Jared Hindman in his column... Which I
    urge you to read.

    In conclusion...

    I for one like a touch of realism in my game, or at least
    plausibility.I'm annoyed when it gets hard to suspend disbelief in a
    game session... I'm annoyed when the reactions of the NPCs are off, when
    the geography is nonsensical, or when I can't believe some of the
    details. Why would the economy be any different and be treated with less
    plausibility than the rest of the gaming universe ?

    I know, I know, it's boring. But, let's face it, it's no more boring, to
    some, than the notions of weapon crafting, psychology, geology,
    geography, history, physics, math or chemistry that some geeks and nerds
    (and I say that with utmost respect, being one myself) show in
    conceiving their worlds, their house rules, their stories.

    What we just saw here is, plainly, that you don't need to peruse through
    long texts about macro-economy and commerce to add a little realism to
    that aspect of the game, the same way you don't need game theory to
    understand how to play D&D.

    It even allows for unexpected challenges, deeper games, more involving,
    especially to players who are used to villages who behave as a whole
    like damsels in distress and have all the commodities they could want...
    In my opinion, "unexpected challenges", "deeper" and "more involving"
    are always good in an RPG.

    Some have said that the economy is but a minor aspect of the game, and
    that it's not worth all that din... I find such assertions lacking when
    I see that some players like nothing more than haggling for magic items
    and equipment in between adventures. I hope I convinced some of you
    that, although ignorance of those financial matters can be perfectly
    fine in certain campaigns (it is a game after all), it can be an
    opportunity when it is often considered an issue.

    Isn't it more interesting ? Is it really that much more complicated,
    when you don't even have to do that all the time ? It's another type of
    adventure, a business venture where the big warrior with his big sword
    has to be careful, for he may not be as rich as he thought, he may not
    be as powerful as fast as he thought, he may have to weigh the
    consequences of that bar brawl if he wants to drink again in town, and
    he may have to pawn that masterworklongsword for a hot meal some day...

    I say anything that lets the PCs face the consequences of their actions
    can only add to the game.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Fantasy Economics Blog Post

    Good read - i was intrigued by the term *stabbing towns* but could not find these in Jared Hindmans webpage ( headinjurytheatre) I would be interested in reading this column - if anybody is better at google plese post the link.
    Last edited by jpreem; 2011-02-20 at 03:39 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Fantasy Economics Blog Post

    I read it. It was interesting.

    I like many of the ideas and theories, and they will change how I create worlds/scenarios henceforth - thank you for that.

    But personally I don't seek to change what is to fit my explanations, I much prefer to change my explanation to fit the described situation. (eg. exspensive stuff like that is made to order, I think most things take about a day to make - D&D).

    Another thing I'm very fond of is: it's not coins, it's pieces. And it's worth something because it's expended(annihilated) when crafting magic stuff. So there is always a demand for it, and 'the Age of Less' is not upon the world yet.

    Very enjoyable. Especially since I had oppotunity to present some of my views on fantasy economy.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: Fantasy Economics Blog Post

    I don't have time just now to read your whole post, but...

    Firstly, in my games villages don't have those facilities. If you're not in a city, you've no chance of hitting on decent smiths or merchants. Even once you're in a city you need to Gather Information to find a merchant who'll deal in magic items.

    Secondly, gold is hard to devalue, because it isn't, like paper money, a representation of goods - it is the goods. Gold currency is an exchange of valuable goods. And because of some strange allure of gold, people always seem to want it, even when it's comparatively common.

    Anyway, I'll come back and read the rest later.
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    true_shinken's Avatar

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    Default Re: Fantasy Economics Blog Post

    I just started reading, saw it wasn't really about economics and decided not to read the best of it. It also fails while describing a hamlet having stuff it doesn't need to have and won't have in any good game.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Fantasy Economics Blog Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsubo 57 View Post
    No fantasy game, to the best of my knowledge, offers a plausible economy.
    I think I did a heroic job of justifying the existence/distribution of levels and pay scales for peasants to lords in D&D here. I explain why prices are standardized across the world, and in fact my world economy is built on the one resource that actually matters: XP.

    Also, of course, see Frank & K's brilliant Dungeonomicon..

    Of course, in commercially published works, it is true that this issue is handled laughably. It would appear that no one cares enough about the issue to pay for thoughtful consideration. Which reveals a certain amount of economic wisdom on the part of the publishers...
    Last edited by Yahzi; 2011-02-20 at 07:04 PM.

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