How much Damage would a Lightsaber do in D and D?

[Cerlis]

A lightsabre doesnt cut through anything. and it doesnt kill anyone faster than a normal sword. if you stab someone in the heart or slice off someones head with a real sword or lightsabre, the effect is the same. the only difference is that a lightsabre can block a lightsabre and energy weapons. it can melt through metal and stone, and it cauturizes any wound it deals.

[hamishspence]

People comparing lightsabre damage to a longsword are forgetting a VERY important tidbit of information. All damage is not dealt equally. In Star Wars d20 (where people seem to be getting the 2d8/3d8-ish figure from), you are using a Vitality/Wound Point damage system - where non-major NPCs have only their Con Score in Vitality points, and where critical hits with a Lightsabre deal damage directly to aforementioned Wound Points.

This is massively different than the D&D hit point system.

I think Saga Edition dropped the Vitality/Wound Point system. How do they work in Saga?

[MeeposFire]

They deal 2d8 (or was it 3d8?) energy damage that ignores all DR and hardness. So against objects and tough creatures it still slices easily and with the right combo of feats and the like can be boosted to even kill high level characters with one hit without being stupidly overpowered early on in the game.

While saga lacks vitality points it does give you 3x HP at 1st level (if you took a heroic class). So if you are a jedi you start with 30hp before con bonus.

[Tyndmyr]

.... Lightsabres are dangerous, yo. ...

*Weapon is Tiny when not lit, and a Medium Weapon when lit. Lit Lightsabres cast a dim glow equivalent to torchlight with a radius of 5'.
**This is necessary to mimic the class-based AC increases from Star Wars; otherwise Lightsabres become almost auto-hit weapons what with D&D-style BAB scaling.

Dude, you port the lightsaber into the system. You don't port the entire system to D&D.

Swords are also dangerous. You take a solid sword hit to a torso, and you're dead, IRL. Swords are portrayed as pretty dangerous in movies, as are lightsabers. In fact, lightsabers are merely a representation of a sword. Longsword or katana is pretty much what it is. A ported weapon is supposed to accurately represent the weapon within the new system...and thus, must adhere to the conceits of that system, such as hp damage.

Sure, it lights up, and goes through physical objects. Brilliant energy covers both.

[FMArthur]

No, it acts entirely like a physical object, collision and all, it just eats through weak materials easily and can be used to rapidly wear down strong things over time. A property of any Corrosive weapon. A +1 Corrosive Flaming longsword need not literally have acid or be on fire; it just deals those two energy types in damage. Combine with the absolutely normal glow that magic swords can be made with simply as a side effect of enhancement and a Least Crystal of Return (300gp), and a you have a perfect Lightsaber replica.

It does not act like a Brilliant Energy weapon. Two lightsabers couldn't even collide if it were Brilliant Energy. If you want a glow, make it glow.

[Swordguy]

Dude, you port the lightsaber into the system. You don't port the entire system to D&

If what you have in D&D after it's ported over don't match what a lightsabre should be able to do, then you don't have a lightsabre. You have a glowing longsword. OP asked for a lightsabre - that's about what it needs to do (translated over to D&D rules) to be considered one. As for their danger, you can hold a blade of a sword in your hand, of place the blade against your body given certain techniques. Try that with a lightsabre, and it'll end poorly for you - thus the requirement for a fumble rule. Lightsabres are explicitly fluffed as being potentially dangerous to their wielders, especially if they aren't highly-trained force-users.

If you just want a glowing longsword, then put a +1 enchantment on it and have have it glow.

[FMArthur]

If what you have in D&D after it's ported over don't match what a lightsabre should be able to do, then you don't have a lightsabre. You have a glowing longsword. OP asked for a lightsabre - that's about what it needs to do (translated over to D&D rules) to be considered one. As for their danger, you can hold a blade of a sword in your hand, of place the blade against your body given certain techniques. Try that with a lightsabre, and it'll end poorly for you - thus the requirement for a fumble rule. Lightsabres are explicitly fluffed as being potentially dangerous to their wielders, especially if they aren't highly-trained force-users.

If you just want a glowing longsword, then put a +1 enchantment on it and have have it glow.

Okay, so it's an exotic longsword that takes extra practice. Double bladed swords and spiked chains don't have a chance to harm nonproficient wielders, though, so why should this? If what you want isn't reasonable in the system you're porting it to, why bother? Do you just want an overpowered weapon that disintegrates on contact?

[Ossian]

No, it acts entirely like a physical object, collision and all, it just eats through weak materials easily and can be used to rapidly wear down strong things over time. A property of any Corrosive weapon. A +1 Corrosive Flaming longsword need not literally have acid or be on fire; it just deals those two energy types in damage. Combine with the absolutely normal glow that magic swords can be made with simply as a side effect of enhancement and a Least Crystal of Return (300gp), and a you have a perfect Lightsaber replica.

It does not act like a Brilliant Energy weapon. Two lightsabers couldn't even collide if it were Brilliant Energy. If you want a glow, make it glow.

It is essentially a super sharp blade that cuts effortlessly through flesh, bone, and personal armor (save for exotic alloys such as Vader's Armour, which was also Sith sorcery enhanced).

I would go for an exotic weapon.

Threat Range: 18-20 (very likely to do some serious damage, such as shearing off appendages. Seriously, you can't tell me that a plasma blade is not as good as a, say, rapier...).
Base damage 2d8 (as per SWRCR).
Ignored the first 20 points of DR (that is, blast doors and vehicles can last a bit longer)
Is a "flaming burst" weapon (IF there is a critical, that is a direct hit from a high energy plasma beam) you are likely to get REALLY hurt.
Ignores AC provided by all armor (that is, it's always a touch attack)
Is +4 at sundering attempts (you still have to aim, coordinate the blow, footwork etc...)
Does force damage.
If you use the force you can channel it through the blade crystal (Yoda and Mace Windu dealt some 7d8 damage per blow, and a force warrior prestige class feature would basically double the already high threat range).

O.

[Darth Stabber]

Lightsaber's key advantages over swords (for the sake of argument Bastard Sword)

Omnidirectional cutting - you don't have to hit with a sharp side, it's all sharp side.

Shrinks for easy storage - you store a small tube, not a full sword

Cuts through metal easily - plasma is nice like that.

Reflects energy weapons - though really only useful to the precognicent.

and in SWSE a normal LS deals 2d8 energy damage (not fire).

[Callos_DeTerran]

Welcome to the wonderfully ridiculous world of hit points. A sword that does 1d8 points of damage can cut an unarmored man in half from shoulder to hip in the real world, but in D&D that only works on first level characters with small hit dice.

Not that ridiculous considering hit points don't just represent how much hurtin' someone can take but their energy to dodge, evade, parry blows, etc. I've always seen massive amounts of hit dice as the character evading/dodging attacks down into like...the twenties or so of hit points when they'll actually start being injured.

[hamishspence]

It is essentially a super sharp blade that cuts effortlessly through flesh, bone, and personal armor (save for exotic alloys such as Vader's Armour, which was also Sith sorcery enhanced).

Depending on the author, "mandalorian iron" can provide at least some resistance, to mitigate a strike rather than completely stop it.

Phrik alloy, and cortosis alloy, are two of the better known ones.

Some biological materials have a degree of resistance too- like Vong amphistaffs.

[Tyndmyr]

Okay, so it's an exotic longsword that takes extra practice. Double bladed swords and spiked chains don't have a chance to harm nonproficient wielders, though, so why should this? If what you want isn't reasonable in the system you're porting it to, why bother? Do you just want an overpowered weapon that disintegrates on contact?

This.

Also, yes, I agree that corrosive does model it more closely than brilliant. As for exotic, katana actually covers that nicely, and given that lightsaber combat was originally modeled on katana combat....it's terribly accurate. For non-standard lightsabers, feel free to use a different exotic weapon.

Omni-directionality isn't really a big thing. Hitting with the edge is extremely easy to pick up with a sword. The only difficulty is really in the parrying with katanas....but that's not even modeled in D&D, so it's not a worry.

I'm not gonna get into all the star-wars anti-lightsaber plot devices that have come up. Suffice it to say, there are a few of them.

[Swordguy]

Okay, so it's an exotic longsword that takes extra practice. Double bladed swords and spiked chains don't have a chance to harm nonproficient wielders, though, so why should this? If what you want isn't reasonable in the system you're porting it to, why bother? Do you just want an overpowered weapon that disintegrates on contact?

I don't care about game balance. I want something that matches the fluff. If the fluff dictates that a lightsabre can do X, then it should be able to do X in game (up to, and including, severe damage to the wielder - which is explicitly and canonically why pretty much only Force-users wielded them).

OP asked how to represent a lightsabre in D&D. That's my way to do it. Take it, leave it, or put forth your own option that actually makes it a lightsabre, and not just a glowing sword you call a "lightsabre". Words have meaning.

[hamishspence]

I don't care about game balance. I want something that matches the fluff. If the fluff dictates that a lightsabre can do X, then it should be able to do X in game (up to, and including, severe damage to the wielder - which is explicitly and canonically why pretty much only Force-users wielded them).

And Boba Fett, in the EU.

Han uses Luke's to cut open the tauntaun in Episode V.

[The Rose Dragon]

Words have meaning.

Yes, they do. For example, lightsabre is a sabre that isn't very heavy. Lightsaber is the high-tech weapon Jedi traditionally use.

[FMArthur]

I keep presenting a weapon that does everything a lightsaber does, within the existing ruleset, and you keep ignoring it. It's very obvious at this point that all you want is a weapon that instant kills, or negates the system's scaling of hit points with character level for arbitrary reasons. That's not how lethal weapons are ever implemented in the system we're working with, no matter how lethal. But lightsabers are so lethal! Yeah. We get it. So are a truckload of other things. They are not special and usually don't even get special treatment within the rulesets of Star Wars-branded games, either. Why should they here?

[Swordguy]

And Boba Fett, in the EU.

Don't know about that, since I haven't read the EU after the Kevin J Anderson novels. With the exception of the excellent Thrawn trilogy, though (and some of the X-wing novels), it was pretty much self-contradictory crap, and thus I discount it wholesale. Films, radio plays, scripts, movie novelizations - that's what I consider to be Star Wars. Everything else is just paid fan-fiction that Lucas can overrule whenever he feels like it.

And if that raises your hackles, I'll point out that Boba Fett is pretty much the author-fiat equivalent of Drizzt in the Star Wars universe. He's not a good subject to base the argument upon because there's nothing he evidently can't do (except dodge a blind guy's melee attack).

Han uses Luke's to cut open the tauntaun in Episode V.

The unstated part of that "pretty much nobody but force-users" statement (unstated because it was so obvious) was "...in combat". To the best of my knowledge, Han didn't engage the tauntaun in a death-duel prior to cutting it open. In fact, he was cutting open an already-dead target, and took his time doing so. Or did Lucas add in a CGI'd Han-Tauntaun duel in the Special Editions that I missed?

EDIT:

I keep presenting a weapon that does everything a lightsaber does, within the existing ruleset, and you keep ignoring it. It's very obvious at this point that all you want is a weapon that instant kills, or negates the system's scaling of hit points with character level for arbitrary reasons. That's not how lethal weapons are ever implemented in the system we're working with, no matter how lethal. But lightsabers are so lethal! Yeah. We get it. So are a truckload of other things. They are not special and usually don't even get special treatment within the rulesets of Star Wars-branded games, either. Why should they here?

If the system doesn't accurately represent the weapon, then the system needs to be changed or modified if the weapon MUST be included. For example, look at all the special rules Gygax wrote for lances - they worked totally outside the standard D&D ruleset (chance to break, extra damage on a charge, etc) because to accurately model the fluff, you had to ignore existing rules. I do nothing different.

And to clarify - I don't want anything. This isn't my thread. I'm giving the OP the option to have a set of rules that more accurately represents what the weapon can actually do (within its fictional universe) rather than just handwaving it and saying "it's a glowing sword that somehow has none of the properties we see a lightsabre actually demonstrate in the movies". Why is that so upsetting to you?

[hamishspence]

The "10% of total hit points damage" bit is also pretty dubious- basically- it will mean that it only takes, at most, ten good hits to kill anything, even gigantic monsters.

Even in Star Wars material, there are references to creatures with thick hides being very difficult to take out with lightsabers- blows doing only superficial damage.

Films, radio plays, scripts, movie novelizations - that's what I consider to be Star Wars. Everything else is just paid fan-fiction that Lucas can overrule whenever he feels like it.

And some of the novelizations (most notably the Episode III one, considered one of the best) make reference to events in the books or comics.

Some characters are first referred to in movie novelizations- such as Darth Bane, in the Episode I novelization.

[Swordguy]

The "10% of total hit points damage" bit is also pretty dubious- basically- it will mean that it only takes, at most, ten good hits to kill anything, even gigantic monsters.

Out of curiosity, how many hits does it take a power attacking, pouncing, frenzied berserker to take out pretty much any canon monster in the monster manual?

'Cause I'll bet it's less than 10...

[hamishspence]

But that's generally a high level one- not a 1st level character.

For a weapon that can fairly rapidly kill anything in the game, to able to do this in the hands of even a low level character (if every strike hits) seems a bit OTT.

If you want a G-canon character, not force-sensitive, who is able to wield a lightsaber in battle without damaging himself- how about General Grievous?

As to the "in-combat" thing- the fumbling rules you listed said "when attacking with the weapon"- but whenever an object is attacked, even if the object can't move or attack back the player will be making an attack roll.

Using your rules, even if Han was attacking an object (like the corpse of a tauntaun) he would still have a chance to fumble and injure himself.

Which seems a bit excessively severe.

[Saint GoH]

I think trying to label a lightsaber as a "+5 corrosive flaming burst brilliant energy bastard sword" is wrong because of one major account. A bastard sword you have to swing with a relative degree of force (as in, muscle needs to power the blade through an enemy). Yes, a bastard sword can chop a person in half, but the required strength to do so is ridiculous due to various obstructions causing friction i.e. muscles, tendons, bones, cartilage, miscellaneous organs.

A lightsaber on the other hand, is weightless. You don't need "power" so to speak, except when combating other lightsaber users. So yes, a lightsaber is more deadly then a sword. You need more training to wield one, but any turkey can pick up a saber and have it cut through a taun-taun's gut sack effortlessly.

The problem with using a lightsaber in D&D is there is almost no way to make it fair. Imagine this, "So yeah, this guy teleports back in time and has a glowy sword. You can't block it, it can shear through your torso like a hot knife through butter and he doesn't get tired from swinging it." Medieval combat relied on deflecting attacks, and you cannot deflect a lightsaber with medieval equipment.

So my idea of a lightsaber in D&D? Permanent Wraithstriked sword that everytime it hits you has a percentile based chance to lop off a limb, or kill you outright. Maybe make it a d6. 1-2 is Arms, 3-4 is legs, 5 is Torso, 6 is head. If you get hit by this thing you are boned, no two ways about it.

[The Rose Dragon]

If you want a G-canon character, not force-sensitive, who is able to wield a lightsaber in battle without damaging himself- how about General Grievous?

To be fair to Grievous, he was a cyborg and probably had preternaturally fast reflexes that allowed him to wield the lightsabers without harm.

[hamishspence]

A lightsaber on the other hand, is weightless. You don't need "power" so to speak, except when combating other lightsaber users.

there's still the issue of it bouncing off metal objects sometimes (like the aforementioned railings on the Death Star II.)

[Swordguy]

But that's generally a high level one- not a 1st level character.

For a weapon that can fairly rapidly kill anything in the game, to able to do this in the hands of even a low level character (if every strike hits) seems a bit OTT.

Refresh my memory. How fast will a longsword hit kill a 1st level fighter? 1-3 hits sound about right to you? "That's a bit OTT", wouldn't you say?

Under these rules, lightsabres allow you to plow through mooks (people who are much lower-level than you, thus giving you the large damage bonus against them), but will still give you a good, drawn-out combat against somebody of equal level to you. Just like the movies. Using relative damage ensures this, rather than using absolute damage values.

Using your rules, even if Han was attacking an object (like the corpse of a tauntaun) he would still have a chance to fumble and injure himself.

Which seems a bit excessively severe.

To be fair, it'd be on a 1, and then (as a non-force user) on a 15 or less - so about a 3.75% chance. I feel that's fair, in that non-force users aren't supposed to use lightsabres very often, and it's a pretty small chance to begin with. Now, if ANY chance of a critical failure is too high, then we simply have different gaming styles, and I wouldn't want to share a table.

Oh, and I sure as heck wouldn't make a person roll an attack while they're deliberately taking their time to cut an unmoving corpse, regardless of what the "rules" say regarding taking 10 (etc). There's times and place to ignore the rules, and this is one of them.

[hamishspence]

Under these rules, lightsabres allow you to plow through mooks (people who are much lower-level than you, thus giving you the large damage bonus against them), but will still give you a good, drawn-out combat against somebody of equal level to you. Just like the movies. Using relative damage ensures this, rather than using absolute damage values.

It'll also give a fairly short combat against something vastly higher in Hit Dice than you.

Using the aforementioned rules, one could, say, fly into a space slug, start stabbing at its insides, and it'll be dead in 10 rounds.

The Wookieepedia explanation for lightsabers being extremely hard to control, is that "they generate a gyroscopic effect, requiring considerable strength and dexterity to control"

Except- Luke (who's never used a lightsaber before) doesn't seem to have much trouble in A New Hope, both when swinging it after Ben hands it to him for the first time, and the training exercise on the Falcon.

[Saph]

For reference, the rules for a lightsaber in Star Wars Saga Edition (which is very compatible with 3.5) are:

Medium-size exotic melee weapon (requires Weapon Proficiency: Lightsabers)
Damage: 2d8 energy and slashing
Weight: 1 kg
Special: Ignores DR and hardness

Is there anything wrong with that? It seems like a pretty good representation to me . . . more damage than a sword, but not overwhelmingly so. (For reference, a blaster rifle does 3d8, but doesn't allow you to add your Strength modifier to damage the way a lightsaber does.)

[hamishspence]

Seems reasonable. Even if it ignores hardness, the target object (such as a railing) still might have enough hit points to withstand one blow.

Do Saga Ed creatures have natural armour, which the saber does not ignore?

[Saph]

In SW Saga the lightsaber doesn't ignore natural armour, no.

But then, in D20 games natural armour works against attacks like ballista bolts and the swing of a giant's club (which, realistically, should do enough damage through kinetic impact and crush injury to make armour irrelevant anyway).

[MeeposFire]

SAGA does not have AC or defense. Lightsabers attack your reflex defense which i 10+your heroic level (or armor bonus)+class mod+dex mod. Touch AC does not exist in SAGA.

[Swordguy]

For reference, the rules for a lightsaber in Star Wars Saga Edition (which is very compatible with 3.5) are:

Medium-size exotic melee weapon (requires Weapon Proficiency: Lightsabers)
Damage: 2d8 energy and slashing
Weight: 1 kg
Special: Ignores DR and hardness

Is there anything wrong with that? It seems like a pretty good representation to me . . . more damage than a sword, but not overwhelmingly so. (For reference, a blaster rifle does 3d8, but doesn't allow you to add your Strength modifier to damage the way a lightsaber does.)

It's fine as long as you're using a VP/WP system. That's the difference here. NPCs in Star Wars don't generally have HUGE numbers of hit points; they have their Con Score in Wounds. Thus, 2d8 damage (which scales up to 5d8-ish at high level) is plenty to represent the lethality of the lightsabre. Compare that to, say, a Hill Giant. In D&D, it's got 102 HP. In Star Wars, if it wasn't a major Plot NPC, it'd have 19 Wound Points. That's it.

tl;dr (all my posts in this thread): 2d8 isn't equal across systems.