Playing an evil character in a "good" party

[theonesin]

By virtue of mechanics(race and deity stuff), my character in a game HAS to be evil. I don't have a real problem with this, but it's how my character interacts with the party that I'm unsure of.

This campaign is actually being rebooted because the party derped too bad, so I know the basic premise: Some person was more or less turned into an omnipresent and extra powerful entity, and we have to stop him (either by killing or returning him to his previous state). The party is in no condition to do this yet though(the reboot happened because the BBEG kind of nuked the world in a way).

So, regardless of alignment, my character has an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" mentality, but past that I don't know what do to. How can I best mesh with the party?

Also, I'm looking for any suggestions on potential backstories. The character is basically a "fairy magic user", but obviously worships a evil, if sealed, entity. I don't need anything elaborate, but just a small base would be nice.

Thanks.

[dsmiles]

Well, the easiest way (in DnD) would be to be Lawful Evil. The Lawful Evil archetypes have a better sense of "enemy of my enemy," and all that. It's a more pragmatic evil, and will use the party towards their own ends, while acting like they're his/her bestest friends. (Obviously, I'm gravitating towards the Face role in this thinking.) It's all about manipulation.

[Randel]

play chaotic evil, then whenever there is a moral dilemma just flip a coin. Don't do what the coin says (that would be pretty stupid) just flip a coin and do what you want to do and if anyone asks just say that the coin told you to do it.

Example: Some evil guy is tied up and you have the choice to kill him or spare him.

1. Decide on the two possible choices ("kill" or "spare") and which heads or tails your coin would land on for you to do that thing.
2. Flip the coin.
3. Look at the result and if you don't like it then lie and do what you want to do anyway.
4. This way you can totally do what you want while making people think you're a dangerous chaotic sociopath who makes ethical decisions based on a coin toss!


with chaotic evil you can also argue that you're trying to kill that guy just because you feel like doing so. Or you don't like the idea of someone stronger than you.

Oh, and if there is a paladin in the party or anyone even else who's alignment depends on them being good then be a team player and steal their kills. If a good aligned character tries to kill anyone there is the slight chance that it will be interpreted as an evil act and they will fall as a result. If you make it a habit of stealing all their kills then you can soak up any negative karma they would have gotten.

[Doorhandle]

Well, with all the killing and looting most parties do, and not to mention any excrement and shenanigans, a lot of them might qualify for evil themselves, depending on the beholder.

Having a character who tires to use that logic on the P.Cs would be fun.

Also, just because you're evil, doesn't mean your disloyal. You could be like Richard from Looking For Group; hilariously evil and otherwise selfish, but devoted to the group none the less.

[Lord.Sorasen]

Contrary to popular belief, evil characters and good characters needn't always be apposed to each other. Consider where your loyalties may lie, not just to your enemies but to your friends as well... This really works better with neutral but I suppose it could work for evil as well. You could, for instance, be a paragon of virtue but be on a first name basis with a corrupt world leader, simply because these things happen in the real world. Talk with your fellow party members about it. Maybe you and another party member know each other from before-times. Your ally doesn't realize right away that you are evil. Maybe he thinks he can help you "see the light" or whatever. But I always liked the friendship beyond alignment to allow people of different world-views to work together.

[Serpentine]

First of all, common goals can go a long way. You might disagree on the methods, you might have completely different world views, but you all agree on the goal. Just gotta work out why.

Also a good thing to remember: Evil can have friends. I suggest talking to the other players and seeing if you can work out a way you can have a strong connection to another character.
For example (though not Good/Evil), in my game for a long time there was a slightly elfcentric Chaotic Good Rogue elf with a fondness for thievery and fashion, and a terrible fear of undead. There was also a human-raised Lawful Good Cleric (of an LG human god) elf with a stick firmly installed. They had pretty extremely different worldviews and philosophies, and despite being the same race had very different backgrounds. And yet, they had been very firm, fast friends ever since the latter rescued the former from wandering zombies (in their backstory).

[Yora]

The most important thing is to not play an evil character to annoy the other players. That done, almost all problems are avoided.

At the most basic level, Evil in D&D seems to be a lack of compassion for people you don't regard as friends. If it does not harm your goals or ruins your day, the suffering of others is of no concern to you. Neutral characters generally have at least some degree of decency and don't want others to suffer unless they have a personal reason to wish that person harm. But evil people are mostly unmoved by the plight of others and don't think much about sacrificing them if it serves their goal.

But since your character is traveling and working together with good characters, he needs their support and has to stay on their good side. Not because he likes it, but because not doing so would be a problem for his goals.
As long as his personal interests are not challenged, the good characters can be as charitable and nice as they want. But when it comes to obstacles that put the success of their endavours at risk, an evil character could be the "voice of reason" and explain to them that they don't have time for charity work and demand that they leave the people in need be and continue with their quest. In extreme cases, one could even ignore the wishes of the good characters and murder people who are slowing the group down without asking his companions, but usually that would get him on their bad side so he'd not just cut the ropes of the bridge while there are still refuges on it and such.
But simply by stating that the group should sacrifice people and ignore pleas for help or mercy would be a good way to play out the evil part without causing the other characters to kick him out or kill him. And once everyone has become accustomed to the party dynamics, one might also start to push the boundries more than usual by doing things the others don't approve of, but given the situation have to be acceted after the fact. But go slowly to get an idea how far you can go before the other characters consider him more of a burden and a threat than a valuable addition to the group.

Have you decided on a specific race and class and do you know more details what the capaign will be like?

[Kiero]

By virtue of mechanics(race and deity stuff), my character in a game HAS to be evil.

Cop-out. You chose those mechanics, they weren't forced upon you.

[Tengu_temp]

Don't be
Belkar from OotS, Black Mage from 8 Bit Theater or Richard from Looking For Group. They're characters from mostly comedic settings. In a more realistic game, good party members stuck with a guy like this would kill him the moment he murders his first innocent for lulz.

Be
Jayne from Firefly. You're selfish, you're willing to get your hands dirty and you have little respect for those who are not your friends, but you are loyal to your friends and will stick with the group and its goals. And you don't kick puppies for fun.

[Serpentine]

I would quite like to know what sort of Evil this character is. What is it about his personality, world-view, actions, beliefs, goals, and/or philosophy that makes him Evil? Psychopathic killer, sadistic bastard, cunning manipulator, ruthless exploiter, petty prick, bitter cynic who expects nothing from the world and offers it nothing in return, or what?

[Frozen_Feet]

First of all, don't be evil towards your party members. They're your friends, remember?

Second, when demanded to stop by them, stop. They are your friends, remember?

Third, devil is in the details. A couple of minor, covert bad acts is as evil as one overt act. Remark how good domestic animals would taste when you pet them. Crush insects under your heel for the lulz. Steal an apple, flip off a policeman, kick a puppy when the other players are looking away. Express speciest, racistic and otherwise non-humanistic viewpoints in casual conversation. ("I mean, gnomes aren't even real people...")

Fourth, when violence is obviously a valid choice, jump at the chance and use most brutal, sadistic means possible. Kick your enemies when they're down. Be the one to suggest the cruelest option "because it's effective" whenever the opportunity presents itself.

Fifth, if other party members call you out, act horrified. Say it's all an misunderstanding. Promise to behave yourself, even if you have no intention to. Act hurt, and try to mollify them. After all, you are their friend too...

[Serpentine]

See, that doesn't work for me at all. That's not a character, that's a stereotyped alignment wearing a character-shaped skin. It's as bad as suggesting that a Good character should go around being a rainbows and lollypops goody-goody two-shoes who gets all in a tizzy any time someone steps on an ant, or who recommends that their dwarf should be sure to be a surly, beer-swilling, axe-wielding beard-bro with a Scottish accent. Sure, you can do that, but it's pretty boring and a long way from your only option.

[dsmiles]

See, that doesn't work for me at all. That's not a character, that's a stereotyped alignment wearing a character-shaped skin. It's as bad as suggesting that a Good character should go around being a rainbows and lollypops goody-goody two-shoes who gets all in a tizzy any time someone steps on an ant, or who recommends that their dwarf should be sure to be a surly, beer-swilling, axe-wielding beard-bro with a Scottish accent. Sure, you can do that, but it's pretty boring and a long way from your only option.

HEY! What's wrong with lollipops?

[Megaduck]

Ok, some thoughts. An evil character can have friends, loved ones, and even morals. However, an evil character prioritizes them-self over everything else.

A good character and an evil character might both like the candy. The evil character however isn't going to be bothered by the fact that the candy hurts someone else.

Also, I'm looking for any suggestions on potential backstories. The character is basically a "fairy magic user", but obviously worships a evil, if sealed, entity. I don't need anything elaborate, but just a small base would be nice.

My first question here is this, why does your character worship this evil entity?

I am not fond of Evil for Evils sake. I much prefer characters that have a reason for their evil. In this case, what is your character getting out of worshiping the sealed evil in a can?

Whatever it is, the character is willing to ignore people possibly getting hurt or killed (by the evil entity) in order to get it.

So, to answer your question. First, you need to decide what your character wants. Then you can figure out why being part of this group helps him/her get it.

[Toofey]

Never forget the power of personal friendship in overcoming alignment obstacles. Once you roll play getting to the point where you like your enemy's enemy then you'll be able to do things to help them because you like them. (unless you dm doesn't grasp the concept) You may think they're silly and their view of the world horribly naive and pedantic but they're your shmucky friends and woe to any who give them trouble.

[Spiryt]

Ok, some thoughts. An evil character can have friends, loved ones, and even morals. However, an evil character prioritizes them-self over everything else.

I don't think that's even needed at all, he can prioritize others, in whatever way, try to stick to their morals or whatever, just fail when it's most important and do bad. Cannot practice what (s)he preaches, and all that.

bitter cynic who expects nothing from the world and offers it nothing in return,

As long as she wouldn't really offer anything, including harmful deeds, that would be pretty much neutral.

[Serpentine]

As long as she wouldn't really offer anything, including harmful deeds, that would be pretty much neutral.

That's a broad, vague generalisation for an overall world-view, not the entirety of a character concept

[Traab]

I say spend your time manipulating a party member into being evil. Take baby steps, dont go straight into, "Lets burn the orphanage down and roast marshmallows over the baby ashes!" Start small, "Hes a bad guy, of COURSE its ok to beat the information we need out of him!" Then next time use the word torture. Just take baby steps and go with the "shades of grey" outlook on life until you managed to turn someone evil. Bonus points for doing it in such a way that it isnt even noticed till he crosses the line. Try to get the dm to work with you by not announcing any alignment changes. Obviously that wouldnt work so well with say, a paladin, but any other class whose alignment doesnt effect their abilities would be fine.

[Ajadea]

Fourthing the recommendation of friends or even family members in the party. They are your idiots, your stupid, squishyhearted, unnecessarily heroic friends. No one gets to hit them but you, no one gets to insult them for those utterly ridiculous 'morals' except you. At least, not if they want to keep their intestines off their pristine dungeon floor.

Evil people don't care who they hurt in pursuit of their goals. That goal can be 'take over the world and stomp over everyone in my way', but it can also be 'keep my friends safe, keep society stable, and stop this shmuck from rending the world in two'.

The latter sounds like a pretty Good goal, but when you burn down a village to serve as a sacrifice to devils because you need to run a two-pronged assault to defeat the aforementioned shmuck and don't want to have to deal with two groups of squishyhearted friends running in different directions and getting distracted by lost puppies or even dying because you aren't there to protect half of them...

It's not good. It's pretty blatantly Evil, actually, and this sort of thing is pretty extreme for an evil PC. But to the evil character, it might be fine; that village was on the edge of society, so it won't destabilize anything, their friends can stay in one group (safety in numbers and all that), more allies is never a bad thing, and every devil they call to the Material Plane is one that the Evil Overlord cannot.

[oxybe]

Contrary to popular belief, evil characters and good characters needn't always be apposed to each other. Consider where your loyalties may lie, not just to your enemies but to your friends as well... This really works better with neutral but I suppose it could work for evil as well. You could, for instance, be a paragon of virtue but be on a first name basis with a corrupt world leader, simply because these things happen in the real world. Talk with your fellow party members about it. Maybe you and another party member know each other from before-times. Your ally doesn't realize right away that you are evil. Maybe he thinks he can help you "see the light" or whatever. But I always liked the friendship beyond alignment to allow people of different world-views to work together.

this +1.

one of my longest played characters was CE.

he was the only original PC to finish the campaign and saved the world in the process, with a side order of dealing the final blow to the BBEG.

now, there was no feeling of "i have to save the world!" or "it's the right thing to do" no.

it was entirely "THIS GUY IS TRYING TO DESTROY THE WORLD?! BUT ALL MY STUFF IS THERE!!!"

lets set a few groundrules first:

-DON'T BE DISRUPTIVE TO THE GROUP. this applies to all flavors of alignment and every character, because a Lawful Jerky PC is just as disruptive as a Stupid Evil PC.

regardless if you would have been making a good, neutral or lawful PC, you would still make one that would mesh with the group, right? you wouldn't make a paladin who had a blinding hatred of rogues, in a party containing a rogue, would you?

make a PC who will work as part of a team first and foremost and knows where he fits in the team dynamic.

in our group Shump was part scout, part artillery, part "guy who does the jobs no one else wants to". he wasn't afraid to get his hands dirty and git 'er done, to use the vernacular.

-CREATE A CHARACTER, NOT A ONE DIMENSIONAL STEREOTYPE. a CE character is not just "MWAHAHAHAHAHAH MURDEREDRUM TURQUOISE BICYCLE :twitcheye:". they have goals and motivations, just like everyone else, the difference is that they don't really have the same moral or ethical hangups most normal folks do.

that doesn't mean they've let all reason slip by.

Shump took the mantle of "adventurer" mainly because it had better PR value then "murderous magical hobo". as such he obeyed the laws enough to not get the attention of the local authorities.

on the flipside, the local authorities knew if they wanted someone/thing taken out (like say a rogue thieves' guild or a goblin burrow) they knew Shump would have no issues murdering baby gobbos or painting the walls of the absurdly spaced sewers "rogue blood red".

he was an engine of destruction to be pointed in a direction the city wanted. a strong believer in "Ordered Chaos", everything worked out in the end

now he wasn't discreet about his moral or ethical leanings (well, the lack thereof), but he was willing to put aside his (lack of) values and tow the line if needed.

Shump wanted power. he was facinated by it. he loved it. he also loved monkeys and had a fear of spiders (especially "boat spiders") but that's another thing entirely. Shump knew that adventurers tend to get hired to do things normal folks fear to do or go where they fear to thread.

and this normally lead to power.

you can be evil and have friends. you can be evil and have things you care about. as much of a nasty, horrible person Shump was, he did befriend a few people, not all of whom were irredeemable monsters like him. he had a pet monkey he honestly cared deeply for and bonded with. he also did want to save the world, if only because it contained all the stuff he actually cared for.

[dsmiles]

When I play evil (non-Face) characters, I tend towards this particular archetype. It's probably Lawful Evil, with emphasis on the Lawful.

[Seb Wiers]

Start small, "Hes a bad guy, of COURSE its ok to beat the information we need out of him!" Then next time use the word torture. Just take baby steps and go with the "shades of grey" outlook on life until you managed to turn someone evil. Bonus points for doing it in such a way that it isnt even noticed till he crosses the line. Try to get the dm to work with you by not announcing any alignment changes. Obviously that wouldnt work so well with say, a paladin, but any other class whose alignment doesnt effect their abilities would be fine.

This, to me, seems the most like what real-life evil is.

Also worth noting is that the OP said the class / religion combo required the character to be evil. I'd turn this around and say the class / religion combo MAKES the character evil, and the onus is on any good-aligned PCs to react to that appropriately, as opposed to on the evil PC to portray petty nastiness.
For example, if the character is a necromancer who gains power from Orcus, well, they may not actually be especially prone to ****-ish behavior on a person-to-person basis, but they are obviously evil. Even if they don't do anything bad to the PCs or those around them, good PCs should be offended by this persons beliefs and past history. Necromancy covers the practice of enslaving souls in bodies where they still suffer the pains of death (until their nerves rot away, at least) ... if you don't have a problem with that, I'd question whether you can make a claim to any good alignment.

[Oracle_Hunter]

By virtue of mechanics(race and deity stuff), my character in a game HAS to be evil. I don't have a real problem with this, but it's how my character interacts with the party that I'm unsure of.

Do you even want to play an Evil character?

It doesn't sound like you particularly care about exploring the Evil Alignments when RPing this character. If that is true, then just play however you want. As long as you aren't making trouble for the party, nobody is likely to complain that you aren't "debasing or destroying innocent life."

If you actually do want to play an Evil Character, it's best to keep your debasing/destroying to incidental NPCs or going with Poke The Poodle style antics. Y'know, harassing old ladies and sassing harmless peasants. Save the real Evil for the Final Act when nobody can do a damn thing to stop you

[BlackestOfMages]

By virtue of mechanics(race and deity stuff), my character in a game HAS to be evil. I don't have a real problem with this, but it's how my character interacts with the party that I'm unsure of.

This campaign is actually being rebooted because the party derped too bad, so I know the basic premise: Some person was more or less turned into an omnipresent and extra powerful entity, and we have to stop him (either by killing or returning him to his previous state). The party is in no condition to do this yet though(the reboot happened because the BBEG kind of nuked the world in a way).

So, regardless of alignment, my character has an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" mentality, but past that I don't know what do to. How can I best mesh with the party?

Also, I'm looking for any suggestions on potential backstories. The character is basically a "fairy magic user", but obviously worships a evil, if sealed, entity. I don't need anything elaborate, but just a small base would be nice.

Thanks.

as stated, it'd be best to play lawful evil, over the others, as they''re the most likely to help heroes (in fact, they can mesh quite well even without the 'enemy of my enemy' thingy)

the best way to not cause problems is a case of give and take. Do the other players know your character is evil? I'm guessing so, and if this is the case then that's easy. you agree not to fudge up/occassionally support their 'good deeds', and they agree not to interupt your 'evil' deeds, so long as you don't go over the top with them.

but doing something that the other characters will kill you for, and your PC knows they will kill them for, is a big no-no. self-preservation (genneraly) comes before impulse.

[WitchSlayer]

But by far the easiest way of playing an evil character in a good party without pissing everyone off or ruining their fun is... to not do it.

[dsmiles]

But by far the easiest way of playing an evil character in a good party without pissing everyone off or ruining their fun is... to not do it.

That seems...counterproductive...to the entire premise of the thread.

[WitchSlayer]

That seems...counterproductive...to the entire premise of the thread.

But it is a good suggestion!

[dsmiles]

Debatable. (Of course this is coming from the guy who almost never plays a 'good' aligned character, and very rarely plays a 'neutral' aligned character. )

[oxybe]

Debatable. (Of course this is coming from the guy who almost never plays a 'good' aligned character, and very rarely plays a 'neutral' aligned character. )

agreed. there's a certain... je ne sais quoi... a draw, if you will, to being evil.

which is why i'm totally happy our monday game is an evil one. being an insidious evil in a good party is one thing.

being a large ham in an evil party is a whole other.

then again, i'm playing a warforged sorceror who's got a delver's light on his forehead that makes him look like his head & shoulders are on fire & he's replaced his left arm with dagger-mounted flamethrower, so i'm a little biased.

[Geigan]

Debatable. (Of course this is coming from the guy who almost never plays a 'good' aligned character, and very rarely plays a 'neutral' aligned character. )

I think he's saying not to not play evil, but don't play an evil character that's going to be a ****. It's actually pretty easy to not be a **** to your friends.