[Recommend a system] For a Historical (and totally non-fantastical) game

[Kiero]

NB: Please read my criteria towards the end of this post, suggestions which don't address them will likely be ignored. This is not a simple "recommend your favourite game" thread.

For background, my group run a "main game" (currently WFRP2e, next is 1930s Hunter: the Vigil) which runs in long slots of 3-4 months at a time and "break games" when we give that a rest to do something different for 8-10 sessions (next one is Dresden Files). We play weekly, just one game at a time. The purpose of the break games is to change gears and prevent boredom and burnout, and with the DFRPG game, also to give our main GM a breather.

I've already sold the group on the premise for my break game (which will probably be next year given the current schedule), a straight historical game. Straight meaning no magic or supernatural at all, not secret things hiding in the shadows, not magic for the special few, nothing. Sure, people will believe in it, and there are charlatans and madmen who can convince people they have magic, but it isn't "real" and demonstrably true. There are no non-humans of any kind, this is not a mythic or fantastical take on history, but the past as it probably was.

My first instinct would be to use Strands of Fate, but with DFRPG coming up next, I don't know if people are going to end up burned out on FATE. Plus we'll be returning to it again later, which could also lead to FATE-fatigue. Additionally, it means I can't use any of the Power Advantages, which in a lot of ways is one of the neatest things about SoF. I've had loads of fun tinkering with it for the Exalted conversion, and kind of want to save it for that should we turn to it for a break.

The specific historical setting is the Hellenistic era, specifically 270BC. If it helps, I'm basically looking to play Warlords of Alexander with a different system. The PCs would be adventurers (in the historical meaning of the word, not "murder-hobos") in and around the Mediterranean getting into all sorts of trouble.

Which leaves me looking for a system that might fit. Rather than be a total free-for-all of recommending whatever your current favourite is, here's some criteria. Both general and thematic, and also some system-specific stuff.


Thematics/generalities:

• I want a game that supports playing exceptional (but still fundamentally normal) human beings in a realistic world. That means providing the means to have "starting" characters who aren't novices.
• No assumption that there is magic or a supernatural world out there. To be honest, I'll ditch whatever setting a game comes with anyway, but it shouldn't have a heavy focus on the unnatural.
• Something that doesn't assume combat is basically all the PCs will be getting up to. I want meaningful alternatives to fighting supported by actual mechanics, not handwaved away as "just roleplaying". While there will be combat, I want characters to have roles besides muscle.
• I'm not averse to hacking parts of a system to fit if it's relatively easy to do (and I usually mean chopping things out, not making up new rules to do this).
• Something that works well with 4-5 players and allows for enough variety that each would have their own special role.

Mechanics:

• I don't want something super-heavy and crunchy, but nor do I want something as light as Wushu or Risus (since I already have them, and prefer them for one-shots, not longer games). I'm looking for light-medium or medium.
• I'm not immersion-focused, meta-mechanics don't really bother me and the system "getting out of the way" isn't a priority.
• I hate random chargen. Games which only have random chargen need not apply (though if they also provide functioning non-random chargen options, I might consider them).
• I also dislike grainy point-buy (ie GURPS, HERO, et al) where chargen takes forever playing bookkeeper, and I've no desire as GM to have to review each character in detail to be sure no one has missed anythign.
• I dislike linear dice probabilities. Whether single-die or percentile, I don't like them. However, I also dislike massive dice pools; if it uses more than six dice I'm also not interested.
• Has a simple means of having starting characters who are already experienced, capable people. Without simply slapping on some XP and having to grind through tedious advancement rules that work completely differently to chargen.
• Preferably unified mechanics that don't use different sub-systems for combat, skill checks, socialising and so on.
• I hate lists of more than 20-ish things. That includes skills. More than that number says too granular a breakdown to me.
• I really dislike games that do arbitrary things like make Dodge a skill in its own right separate from Athletics or Acrobatics. Same goes making each type of weapon its own skill. And having "brawling" separate from "martial arts". If these are things easily amended, not a problem.
• I don't mind if it's a game that dispenses with attributes and just has skills. Or one that uses both. If it uses attributes, I'd prefer something that doesn't lump fine motor control (ie hand-eye co-ordination) and gross motor control (full-body agility) together. Or at least makes it easy to split them.
• No level-based advancement. I don't mind loose classes, but I don't want levels. Tiers on the other hand aren't a problem. Yes, there's a difference.
• I want actual mechanics for social conflicts beyond a single roll.
• Conversely, for combat I don't want a chain-of-rolls where there are multiple fail-points. WFRP2e is an example of what I don't want. Opposed rolls of skill with fixed damage including margin of success are my preference.
• I don't mind player-defined traits, but I don't want everything about a PC to be composed of them.
• I'd like advancement rules, but they're not the most important thing.

Systems I've ruled out:

• D&D of any edition. Totally unsuited to this, and while I like 4th edition I'd never run it.
• D20 anything. Just not interested.
• GURPS or HERO, both far too crunchy and granular in chargen.
• BRP - WoA comes with it, but it just isn't to my tastes.
• WFRP2e - just finishing playing it, I'd never want to run it.
• oWoD and nWoD - just about to play the latter and I'm only lukewarm at best on it mechanically.
• Savage Worlds - my group played this in the past and gave it a big thumbs-down.
• D6 - I really dislike the way it does a lot of things, just not to my tastes.
• Fudge - it's a toolkit not a game and too similar to FATE.
• Feng Shui - too far out there and the archetypes are wonky. Not really suited to this at all.
• Heroquest 1 - freeform "choose your own" traits is too nebulous for my tastes. To this day I still don't really understand how extended contests work, either.
• No retro-clones, please. There's nothing about old-school games that appeals to me in the first place.

Systems I haven't ruled out:

• Cinematic Unisystem - although again the demon powers of Angel were one of the coolest things about it and they wouldn't be used. I'd also need an alternative die mechanic to 1d10, and a few house rules about things like the Dex uberstat.
• ORE - I've got a free PDF of Nemesis and a vague interest in knowing more about it. Don't like Co-ordination being a catch-all, but could easily split that into, say Co-ordination and Balance. I've not really read it in any kind of detail, though.
• Other things not on the lists above.

I recognise that those are some quite stringent criteria, but it should hopefully cut down on the spurious suggestions. I haven't really thought about properly "indie" games, not sure how open my group would be to those, or how comfortable I would be using them for a historical game.

[Totally Guy]

There's a game on Indie Press Revolution called Chronica Feudalis. I don't know how it stacks up to a lot of your criteria but I think its sales pitch is in the right ball park.

Anyone played this one?

[Thane of Fife]

Hmm, you might look at Principia (note: link has some Renaissance art that is probably NSFW). You might need to create your own archetypes to change the Renaissance setting to an Ancient Grecian one, and to eliminate the fantastic powers some of them have, but that shouldn't be too much work, and the game has a philosophical bent that could go well with ancient Greece.

Of course, I think it meets all of your criteria.

[Zerter]

Why do you need a gamesystem? Nothing you describes seems to require one.

Just have everyone write out a character and get started. Get a bunch of dice in case you need to work out the probalities of an action and just wing everything.

[Lapak]

Is Burning Wheel too mechanically light for your purposes? It could certainly model the feel you're looking for, but it's probably on the 'not crunchy enough' end mechanics-wise.

[Totally Guy]

Is Burning Wheel too mechanically light for your purposes? It could certainly model the feel you're looking for, but it's probably on the 'not crunchy enough' end mechanics-wise.

I didn't suggest that because I'd consider it too heavy.

Plus the skill list is like 200 skills long, which he hates! (This works really well in play. Say you're in a debate and your only good skill for it is Religious Diatribe. That's quite specific! Well then in order to get the best mechanical advantage you've got to make your argument religious and dismiss the the opponent as being wrong in the eyes of the lord. That says a lot about your character.)

[Glimbur]

Riddle of Steel is supposed to have a crunchy combat system and is Conan based. Magic is rare and dangerous; it is not assumed in the mechanics so it could be removed. I haven't actually played it so I can't give a strong recommendation for it, but it is worth considering.

You have a lot of criteria... I'm not sure if a system exists which meets all of them.

[Necro_EX]

I'll go ahead and suggest BESM for you.

Thematics/generalities:

• I want a game that supports playing exceptional (but still fundamentally normal) human beings in a realistic world. That means providing the means to have "starting" characters who aren't novices.
  >Check. Characters built on 150-200 cp would be above average folks, but not overpowered.
• No assumption that there is magic or a supernatural world out there. To be honest, I'll ditch whatever setting a game comes with anyway, but it shouldn't have a heavy focus on the unnatural.
  >Check. The system's entirely open for any sort of shenanigans, but there is no assumed setting.
• Something that doesn't assume combat is basically all the PCs will be getting up to. I want meaningful alternatives to fighting supported by actual mechanics, not handwaved away as "just roleplaying". While there will be combat, I want characters to have roles besides muscle.
  >Check. Well, sort of anyway. I believe there were a handful of skills tied to social encounters, but obviously roleplaying is going to be a pretty big part of those encounters.
• I'm not averse to hacking parts of a system to fit if it's relatively easy to do (and I usually mean chopping things out, not making up new rules to do this).
  >No real need for that here.
• Something that works well with 4-5 players and allows for enough variety that each would have their own special role.
  >Character generation is very, very open in BESM. It's very easy for everyone to fit into their own little niche and four to five players works just fine.
  

Mechanics:

• I don't want something super-heavy and crunchy, but nor do I want something as light as Wushu or Risus (since I already have them, and prefer them for one-shots, not longer games). I'm looking for light-medium or medium.
  >I'd say it's about light-medium. After getting chargen out of the way everything is pretty simple.
• I'm not immersion-focused, meta-mechanics don't really bother me and the system "getting out of the way" isn't a priority.
  >Don't really know how to comment on this point, but the game can be as crunchy as you need it to be if that's what you're getting at.
• I hate random chargen. Games which only have random chargen need not apply (though if they also provide functioning non-random chargen options, I might consider them).
  >No random chargen here.
• I also dislike grainy point-buy (ie GURPS, HERO, et al) where chargen takes forever playing bookkeeper, and I've no desire as GM to have to review each character in detail to be sure no one has missed anythign.
  >Chargen doesn't take too long and there are only a couple of things to look out for, but since you're going with a setting with no magic or high technology I don't see any reason why your players would take hidden power, power flux, or any of those.
• I dislike linear dice probabilities. Whether single-die or percentile, I don't like them. However, I also dislike massive dice pools; if it uses more than six dice I'm also not interested.
  >2d6 all day, erryday. Not really sure what you'd prefer here.
• Has a simple means of having starting characters who are already experienced, capable people. Without simply slapping on some XP and having to grind through tedious advancement rules that work completely differently to chargen.
  >No problem with that, the advancement rules are pretty dang simple with BESM and you can have the players start at any power level you need them to.
• Preferably unified mechanics that don't use different sub-systems for combat, skill checks, socialising and so on.
  >2d6 all day, erryday.
• I hate lists of more than 20-ish things. That includes skills. More than that number says too granular a breakdown to me.
  >With the power level you're likely to go with (the 150-200 character point range) your player's characters will likely only have a handful of attributes and skills.
• I really dislike games that do arbitrary things like make Dodge a skill in its own right separate from Athletics or Acrobatics. Same goes making each type of weapon its own skill. And having "brawling" separate from "martial arts". If these are things easily amended, not a problem.
  >Not much of an issue here, but defense rolls are separate from acrobatics in BESM. Both do rely on the body stat, though.
• I don't mind if it's a game that dispenses with attributes and just has skills. Or one that uses both. If it uses attributes, I'd prefer something that doesn't lump fine motor control (ie hand-eye co-ordination) and gross motor control (full-body agility) together. Or at least makes it easy to split them.
  >Those are both lumped into the 'body' stat in BESM, but if you want a slow and clumsy, but strong character? Low body, ranks in superstrength. Want someone with great manual dexterity, but that's not necessarily the most fit? Lower body, but attributes to enhance fine dexterity.
• No level-based advancement. I don't mind loose classes, but I don't want levels. Tiers on the other hand aren't a problem. Yes, there's a difference.
  >No levels or classes at all.
• I want actual mechanics for social conflicts beyond a single roll.
  >BESM kind of goes the route where you do roleplaying for those parts over anything else, but I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to make the social encounters a touch more complicated.
• Conversely, for combat I don't want a chain-of-rolls where there are multiple fail-points. WFRP2e is an example of what I don't want. Opposed rolls of skill with fixed damage including margin of success are my preference.
  >Good thing that opposed roles with fixed damage and margins of success are exactly how BESM combat works.
• I don't mind player-defined traits, but I don't want everything about a PC to be composed of them.
  >Not entirely sure what you're getting at here, but BESM does have the 'unique attribute/defect/restriction/variable/etc,' but those aren't too likely to be used.
• I'd like advancement rules, but they're not the most important thing.
  >Couple character points every now and then when you feel they've earned them.
  

[Gavinfoxx]

Riddle of Steel, or any of the other games that are based on it (on TRoS forums, there are several successor games being developed or bandied about). A few other games attempt to do the historic martial arts thing well, you might find that interesting. There is also a D20 game that does that sort of thing very well, Codex Martialis.

[Beleriphon]

I'm going to toss out M&M3E here.

It's a little wonky if you take it at face value, being a superhero game, but it works well at PL7 and 135 point to build characters. If you want to avoid superpowers its easy enough, jut ignore the entire chapter dedicated to that, and you use advantages, skills and natural traits to build characters.

That said, the powers are useful for certain "martial" techniques especially at low level. The effects in the powers chapter also are used to build all of the equipment. Thus a bow is the same as a javelin in the basic mechanics (ranged damage).

Character building doesn't take forever if you cut out having superpowers, since those the source of most of the abuse.


Combat in M&M is simple: Roll to hit. If hit roll to resist, if failed then margin of failure determines degree of harm from -1 (cumulative) to further rolls, to being knocked out cold and dying.

[Arbane]

FVLMINATA, maybe?

[Knaight]

I'd probably use FATE 2*. Dresden Files and Spirit of the Century are both FATE 3, and FATE 2 is mechanically distinct enough to avoid burn out. Otherwise, Chronica Feudalis should work perfectly. It is, strictly speaking, built to assume a historical medieval setting, but it is simple enough to adapt far beyond that. Like FATE, it uses Aspects, like Cortex it uses a simple step die system, it has only a handful of skills (I think exactly 20), and it is light. Moreover, it doesn't assume combat is the majority of what people do -it is one of several "sub systems"** among chases, social interactions, and a few other things. Moreover, Chronica Feudalis is an engaging read, well polished, and in general a unique gem of a system.


*Well, I'd use Fudge, but you ruled that out.

**Its basically a single more detailed resolution system, you should be able to memorize this with a single read.

[Gavinfoxx]

FVLMINATA, maybe?

WHERE did you find FVLMINATA?? WHERE?? I've been looking for that game for AGES...

[hamlet]

WHERE did you find FVLMINATA?? WHERE?? I've been looking for that game for AGES...

Amazon has it.

Nobleknight.com has it.

Can't find the supposed supplement, but seems it might not have actually gotten published, so . . .

[Balain]

You could try Pendragon perhaps the 5the edition?

Maybe Ars Magica It has lots of magic but you can just drop the magic part.

[Gavinfoxx]

Drop the magic part of Ars Magica...?

O,o

"No, I don't want the steak, the little parsley on the side will be enough."

[Knaight]

Drop the magic part of Ars Magica...?

O,o

"No, I don't want the steak, the little parsley on the side will be enough."

My thoughts exactly. That's like dropping the magic part of Witchcraft, or Sorcerer.

[DabblerWizard]

I recommend Synapse.

The game meets your first desired theme very well. There's a definite mortality to the characters made in this system. For instance, if a gunshot hits a PC, it's very likely to kill them.

One way that exceptional characters come into play has to do with the skill system. There is no base skill list. Some of the character generation mechanics provide skills along the way, but these can be ditched, morphed, combined, etc. very easily. I thoroughly enjoy the fact that my players have the skills that make sense to us, and they interface easily with the mechanics as necessary.

Magic isn't a necessary component to any game world. What is necessary is deciding what your character believes in. Superstitious characters will react differently than those that are total non-believers, for instance.

The primary mechanic in the game involves mental stats, not physical ones. What a character's mind can do is core: how quickly they cool down after tense situations, how fast they can think on the spot... etc. Thus, combat is accounted for, but it's not the primary mechanic.

Character generation in this system can be heavy, in that Synapse provides an opportunity for a lot of depth, but just myself, I've hand waved parts of this where I don't want to encumber myself, or the players with all the details.

This system only requires d6, and just 6 dice max per player.

Character advancement occurs primarily in the skill system. Mental skills aren't likely to alter that much over time, but experience and practice are accounted for with this system. There are no levels.

The game does include mechanics for margin of success, and players roll to determine how difficult a challenge is, compared to their character's relevant skills, and talents.

It's free, and is legally downloadable from the internet. It's in beta.

[Edit]: The game provides background for multiple genres of play, not just fantasy.

You can download the game from here: http://errantgame.blogspot.com/p/synapse-rpg.html

You can learn more about the game here: http://synapserpg.com/

[Knaight]

I recommend Synapse.

I love Synapse, and have advertised it heavily on these forums. However, it doesn't meet the requirements. Kiero favors rules light games with minimalist skill lists, Synapse is incredibly crunchy, takes ages to make a character in, and has a massive quantity of specific skills. Its a brilliant game, but it simply doesn't fit.

It is, however free, and should be read even if you have no intention of ever using it. The way it does things is very unique, and should be learned from.

[DabblerWizard]

I love Synapse, and have advertised it heavily on these forums. However, it doesn't meet the requirements. Kiero favors rules light games with minimalist skill lists, Synapse is incredibly crunchy, takes ages to make a character in, and has a massive quantity of specific skills. Its a brilliant game, but it simply doesn't fit.

It is, however free, and should be read even if you have no intention of ever using it. The way it does things is very unique, and should be learned from.

The only way Synapse is crunchy is if you deep fry the paper it's printed out on. Seriously though, as I said above, there's no need to keep any skills that you don't care to. And character generation takes about as long as d&d if your DM prepares properly.

[Knaight]

The only way Synapse is crunchy is if you deep fry the paper it's printed out on. Seriously though, as I said above, there's no need to keep any skills that you don't care to. And character generation takes about as long as d&d if your DM prepares properly.

Hahahahaha no. We have 6 attributes, which need to be memorized. Each of these has 3 subcategories, again, this needs memorization. Then there are the species traits, all 20 of them, each of which has several options. Then there are the cultural traits, and after you've done all that, only then does the real character building start. Synapse is an incredibly crunchy game, easily on the GURPS-D&D 3.5 level, which is fairly high crunch. FATE it ain't.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

You could try Pendragon perhaps the 5the edition?

That's an interesting suggestion! Some fluff retooling (Arthurian to Greek) required, but definitely this. It's heavily character-focused, with characters' personal traits coming to center stage, though I'm trying to remember how big the skill list is...

[Kiero]

Holy macaroni, leave this for a few days and it explodes. There does seem to be some confusion about what I mean by rules-light and rules-heavy, which isn't surprising. Also some terms people don't understand, so I guess I'll have to expand on them.

Roughly in order...

Chronica Feudalis

Chronica Feudalis has been suggested elsewhere, it's FATE-ish but not straight core FATE, not sure about the multiple die-types, but how do the core mechanics work?

Principia

I'll have a look at Principia, bear in mind the Hellenistic era is not Ancient Greece (it's about two centuries later).

Why use a system...

I need a system because I'm sitting people down to play a roleplaying game with all the meaningful structure that a system provides, rather than telling some freeform stories.

Burning Wheel

Burning Wheel is way too heavy for my tastes.

BESM

BESM; meta-mechanics are things like Drama Points or FATE's Aspects - stuff that is attached more to the player than the character. They bother some people, claim they "hurt" immersion; I don't care about immersion so they don't bother me.

Player-defined traits are things like FATE's Aspects, everything in PDQ or Heroquest. The idea is that players choose what these things are. I like some of that for intangibles like personality, motivations, beliefs, relationships, but not for tangibles like skills and competences.

I'm not clear from BESM how many skills it has; as in the total list. Also not keen on the way everything is lumped together into a small number of stats using other things to tease out the differences. I'd prefer more stats and less overlap.

I looked at it in the past, and other variations on Tri-Stat (SAS?), I'll give it another look.

Riddle of Steel

Riddle of Steel - combat is way too crunchy. I'd end up avoiding it which isn't a good thing.

M&M3e

Sorry, but it's far too close to D20 for my tastes.

FATE2e/CF

To be honest the only thing I ever thought was useful from FATE2e was the appendices at the back for different ways to look at Skills. Which puts it ahead of Fudge but it still suffers from the "too close to FATE" problem. Besides which, I prefer FATE3.0 if I'm going to run something FATE, though I might look back through it for some ideas.

Any more info on CF as above? I read a review which wasn't terribly helpful.

FVLMINATA

Any more information than name-dropping? Is it available with a quickstart/lite to review? Or is it out of print?

Pendragon/ArM

An earlier edition of Pendragon I saw looked way too complicated, and tied up with both medieval knightly conduct and generational play. None of which are relevant in this period or for the kind of game I want to run. I'm also not a fan of old-school games. I like the passions system, but most of what sits around it isn't to my tastes. Isn't chargen random anyway?

ArM without the magic, and a game that's focused on the (mythical/fantastical) medieval era seems a little too much work to me. I've got ArM 4th edition, found chargen way too involved.

Synapse

Sounds way too crunchy. When I said heavier than Wushu/Risus, I didn't mean equivalent to D&D 3.x/GURPS. I mean equivalent to Cinematic Unisystem or FATE.


Possibles so far are ORE/REIGN, PDQ and EABA, with some hacking to all.

[Necro_EX]

Ah, then there is at least the divine relationship attribute in BESM. Basically ranks in it give you so many re-rolls per session.

As for skills...there are 50 total, but a good handful of those wouldn't make much sense to keep in the setting you're wanting. Computers, piloting, that sort of thing. Also, you only really have to keep track of the ones you take ranks in.

If I understand fully what you're meaning by player-defined traits...that's sort of how BESM works entirely. To quote the 3rd edition book

"BESM is a point-based and effect-based game system.

...

“Effect-based” means that the Attributes focus on
the effect rather than the cause. For example, BESM
has a single Mind Control Attribute. This can represent
anything from a charm spell to a vampire’s hypnotic
gaze to an ultra-technology mind control ray. It is up
to the player to define how this works for his or her
character. The rules provide many game mechanical
options that allow players to customise each Attribute
in order to best reflect this."

So...maybe it's not what you're looking for.

[stainboy]

Well, you can name about twenty games you don't like, and then two obscure things you seem to have given a cursory read and not found a reason not to like yet.

I recommend you pick one of the flawed systems you ruled out and run your damn game already.

[Gavinfoxx]

Pendragon is not generational or random. The latest version of Pendragon -- you want version 5.1 -- works REALLY well. You might need the Book of Knights and Ladies for the purpose of tweaking the character generation to fit the culture you want (more chargen rules are there), but it WOULD work well, and it WOULD be adaptable to what you need, perhaps using one of the existing cultures / nationalities straight out of the (BoK&L) book!

Edit: You mean generational not as random generation, but as in living generation? It is generational in that sense, yea.

[Knaight]

Chronica Feudalis

Chronica Feudalis has been suggested elsewhere, it's FATE-ish but not straight core FATE, not sure about the multiple die-types, but how do the core mechanics work?

Other than Aspects, it isn't that Fateish. So, details:
Aspects: You get three of these, they are basically FATE aspects. However, they are ranked like skills.

Skills: Skills are rated in dice, and range from d4 to d12, with d20 reserved for non human entities (for instance, a horse might get to roll d20 to sprint, due to being far beyond a human when it comes to sprinting).

Die Mechanics: Roll all applicable dice (maybe 1 from skills, 1 from an aspect, 1 from a tool, as an ideal), take the highest result and compare it to a target number. This creates a non-linear system by virtue of multiple dice.

Character creation: Pick 3 mentors, each of which increases 3 skills by 1 step.

Subsystems: There are Chase skills, Combat skills, Parley skills, and Subterfuge skills, each of which is also a subsystem. That said, the mechanics are largely unified, and chases, parley and subterfuge are all as detailed as combat.


Its fast, rules light but nowhere near the Risus-Wushu-Titled level, it has a non-linear roll distribution due to its die system, and it is a joy to read. I'd actually consider it better than FATE.

[Kiero]

Pendragon is not generational or random. The latest version of Pendragon -- you want version 5.1 -- works REALLY well. You might need the Book of Knights and Ladies for the purpose of tweaking the character generation to fit the culture you want (more chargen rules are there), but it WOULD work well, and it WOULD be adaptable to what you need, perhaps using one of the existing cultures / nationalities straight out of the (BoK&L) book!

Um, isn't the "Great Pendragon Campaign" of gaming lore all about running a generational game? Ie one in which you play not just one character, but their descendants down the years?

As I said, I like the Passions, but that aside isn't it a seriously old-school game? I've never seen an old game I liked, they almost always have kludgy mechanics and are loaded with charts and tables.

Other than Aspects, it isn't that Fateish. So, details:
Aspects: You get three of these, they are basically FATE aspects. However, they are ranked like skills.

Skills: Skills are rated in dice, and range from d4 to d12, with d20 reserved for non human entities (for instance, a horse might get to roll d20 to sprint, due to being far beyond a human when it comes to sprinting).

Die Mechanics: Roll all applicable dice (maybe 1 from skills, 1 from an aspect, 1 from a tool, as an ideal), take the highest result and compare it to a target number. This creates a non-linear system by virtue of multiple dice.

Character creation: Pick 3 mentors, each of which increases 3 skills by 1 step.

Subsystems: There are Chase skills, Combat skills, Parley skills, and Subterfuge skills, each of which is also a subsystem. That said, the mechanics are largely unified, and chases, parley and subterfuge are all as detailed as combat.


Its fast, rules light but nowhere near the Risus-Wushu-Titled level, it has a non-linear roll distribution due to its die system, and it is a joy to read. I'd actually consider it better than FATE.

Hmmm, my interest is piqued. How many Skills are there? Is it easy to rework the list if desired (assuming they're not "name your own")?

I remember something or other about mentors being things like Monk or Merchant; again are they easily altered to reflect a different epoch?

Sub-systems sound interesting, how well does Parley work for broader-scale stuff like addressing an assembly/royal court? Or inspiring troops before a battle? Or holding a symposium and impressing your friends/enemies/rivals/peers?

What do you do with those dice, roll and add?

[Knaight]

Hmmm, my interest is piqued. How many Skills are there? Is it easy to rework the list if desired (assuming they're not "name your own")?

I remember something or other about mentors being things like Monk or Merchant; again are they easily altered to reflect a different epoch?

Sub-systems sound interesting, how well does Parley work for broader-scale stuff like addressing an assembly/royal court? Or inspiring troops before a battle? Or holding a symposium and impressing your friends/enemies/rivals/peers?

What do you do with those dice, roll and add?

There are exactly 20 skills, designed around the 4 subsystems, with 5 in each. Reworking is relatively easy, if you can tweak FATE, you can tweak CF. Skills are also the only list in the game, so those 20 skills deserve comparison to the length of skills, attributes, stunt lists, whatever in other games, it is really quite light.

A mentor is merely a 3 skill package mechanically. Removing mentors, creating new mentors, it is effortless.

Parley works just fine for all of that.

You roll up to 3 dice, and take the best of the three rolls. Note that this is for major protagonists and antagonists only, more minor antagonists only get up to 2 dice, and the general populace 1 die.

[Kiero]

There are exactly 20 skills, designed around the 4 subsystems, with 5 in each. Reworking is relatively easy, if you can tweak FATE, you can tweak CF. Skills are also the only list in the game, so those 20 skills deserve comparison to the length of skills, attributes, stunt lists, whatever in other games, it is really quite light.

I like what I'm hearing. With four players I could easily see having one person focused on each subsystem. Though they'd all need at least some facility in a fight, given the ambient violence of the past.

How is the spread of competence across the four areas handled? By which I mean does is chargen centred around prioritising them, or is it relatively free in how you allocate competence?

Does it have guidance on different tiers for characters (novice, seasoned, veteran, etc)?

A mentor is merely a 3 skill package mechanically. Removing mentors, creating new mentors, it is effortless.

If it's there, I'd be happy to use it. All it sounds like I'd need to do is alter the inappropriate ones (like Monk which doesn't really fit).

Parley works just fine for all of that.

Does it have tools listed for Parley same as the other subs? As in are they all equally effective and swift at reaching a resolution? There are a lot of games where weapons and armour nuance physical combat in such a way as to make it decisive, but alternative conflict types don't have any analogue to that.

You roll up to 3 dice, and take the best of the three rolls. Note that this is for major protagonists and antagonists only, more minor antagonists only get up to 2 dice, and the general populace 1 die.

This sounds pretty good, particularly the simplification for lesser characters. Makes my job as a GM easier.